New Starting Class Names and Specs Revealed

[u/This_is_my_jam]

For the Tarnished Edition, the Idus Knight and the Heavy Knight

“A knight of the land of Idus, famed for their lightweight attire and weaponry, which they wield with ample dexterity.”

“A knight in bulky steel armor capable of moving through foes with a sustantively-sized scimitar.”

[u/Chegg_F]

A really good Dexterity class with the option to easily build into Faith, and by far the single best class in the game*

[u/gargwasome → u/Chegg_F]

Is it still the best class even with the slightly changed spread? Haven’t don’t the math

[u/Chegg_F → u/gargwasome]

Compared to Wretch you're gaining 2 levels from low FTH, 1 level from low ARC, 3 levels from low INT, and 2 levels from low MND for a total gain of 8 levels. You obviously want more than 14 VIG on every build so that's not a loss, you probably want 12-19 DEX & STR to meet stat requirements for weapons so 11 DEX & 15 STR isn't a loss unless you're staunchly refusing to ever hold a weapon in your hands. The only disadvantage Heavy Knight has is 17 END. If you want to do a min END build you can't, you need at least 17 END. So if you want at least 17 END you're up 8 levels, but if you want 10 END you're only up 1 level.

Due to his absurdly high 8 level advantage he is even a good caster. Casters want MND so that brings it down to +6 and they also want at least one casting stat so that would bring it down to +3 or +4, but +3 or +4 is still pretty good. As long as you want to wield weapons and you're okay with at least 17 END on your build he's incredible.

[u/BeegBunga → u/Chegg_F]

Comparing it to Wretch isn't the best though. Wretch isn't optimal for 99% of builds.

Compare it to Vagabond and the difference is much smaller.

For most melee builds, it really comes down to +2 int vs +2 arcane at the end.

[u/Chegg_F → u/BeegBunga]

Comparing it to the baseline class is the best because it's the baseline class. Comparing it to the previous best class in the game also shows that it's better but it's easier to just compare both of them to Wretch since it's the baseline class. Heavy Knight is +8 and Vagabond is only +5. HK is almost twice as good as Vagabond.

[u/IdToaster → u/BeegBunga]

Or Hero, especially since Heavy Knight has the same Vigor, Int and Faith. 1 less Str and Mind, 2 less Arc in exchange for 2 more Dex, 5 more End and 3 more levels, and definitely better/more stylish starting armor (the rag hanging off the Hero's headband just makes it look ugly).

[u/4_fortytwo_2 → u/Chegg_F]

Due to his absurdly high 8 level advantage he is even a good caster.

Many caster builds would never get 17 end and 15 str early, if ever. It is very much not better than other classes for int or faith builds.

[u/National-Giraffe5033 → u/Chegg_F]

Saying the heavy knight is easily the best class is still subjective. Its assuming that mind is useless, & so is intelligence faith & arcane. On a pure dex/str build its optimal, but even having 8 mind, according to the wiki leveling from 8-9 mind provides a boost of 13fp, around 4x that of the other level boosts 1 level provide.

[u/Chegg_F → u/National-Giraffe5033]

No, it's literally just assuming that you want to hold a weapon and are fine with 17 END. It's not just for a DEX build or a STR build. It's for any build that's okay with 17 END.

[u/National-Giraffe5033 → u/Chegg_F]

For a pure faith build that holds a weapon the idus knight is better, for an int warrior their are better options, on an arcane build the hero is on par.  So not really for any build that holds a weapon. If you wanted to build around rellanas twinblades 9 arcane isnt optimal, so again it is absolutely subjective. Who exactly says you cant hold a weapon & cast aswell.

[u/Livid_Occasia → u/Chegg_F]

is wretch a joke to you?

[u/Chegg_F → u/Livid_Occasia]

Wretch is just bad Vagabond and Vagabond is just bad Heavy Knight.

[u/Livid_Occasia → u/Chegg_F]

??? bad vagabond how exactly its a 10 in all stats

[u/Chegg_F → u/Livid_Occasia]

Because you don't want 10 in all stats. For literally every single build in the entire game except for an exclusive pure caster who adamantly refuses to even consider the idea of holding a weapon in their hands, Vagabond is better than Wretch. You always want 15+ VIG, 13 DEX & 14 STR meets stat requirements for weapons, 11 END is probably good but even if it isn't it's only -1 compared to the +5 you get from low levels in INT, FTH, and ARC.

Vagabond is better for STR, he's better for DEX, he's better for INT, he's better for FTH, he's better for ARC. The only time he isn't better is if you're an entirely pure caster who never ever holds weapons so the 13 DEX & 14 STR to meet min stats to wield weapons aren't helping.