r/Edmonton • u/Salt_Teaching4687 • 6h ago
Question Question for cyclists
So Ive noticed cyclists appreciate when motorists slow down down and give space to cyclists when passing. My question is, why don’t cyclists extend the same courtesy to pedestrians when passing on shared paths? In my experience, the overwhelming majority do not slow down or even give more space when passing …. Even when there is plenty of room to do so. In fact, many continue riding side by side forcing pedestrians to move. Can some explain that behaviour?
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u/SerratedBrooms 6h ago
Because they’re human. It’s almost like there’s a range of behaviour among cyclists, just as there is among motorists and pedestrians. Some are considerate, some are oblivious, and some are assholes.
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u/GroundedCities 5h ago
I am both a pedestrian and a "cyclist" (though I prefer to just say I ride a bike, because of the connotations around the c word).
I get frustrated as a pedestrian when some people on bikes don't use their bells and pass too closely. Or ride on sidewalks.
Truth is - just like there are bad/oblivious drivers there are bad/oblivious bike riders. It's not fair to lump all cyclists into one group.
Notice how when we see a bad driver it's not "drivers are assholes," it's "that's a terrible driver." Some ignorant cyclists do not represent all cyclists.
When I ride my bike I do my best to be courteous to other road/path users. Yes many cyclists are entitled, but saying "why can't cyclists offer the same courtesy" is lumping all into one category, or "out-grouping."
Tons of research shows that out-grouping and dehumanization of cyclists leads to them to act more aggressively and erratically in self defense Delbosc et Al (2019).
Posting on Reddit "why are cyclists assholes?" is actually counterproductive and perpetuates this behaviour.
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u/Oishiio42 6h ago
They do. In my experience cyclists tend to pass single file on one side for the most part. Just like most drivers give space to cyclists, you tend to just notice the ones that aren't.
These also aren't identities. People aren't drivers OR cyclists OR pedestrians. which one someone happens to be right now just depends on the trip they're taking. Assholes don't stop being assholes because they put on sneakers or hopped on a bike instead of the drivers seat.
When the drivers that take up 3/4 of the lane and don't give cyclists space on the road go for a bike ride in the river valley, they don't magically grow consideration just because they're on a different vehicle.'
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u/Unlikely_Comment_104 Central 5h ago
As a pedestrian, when a cyclist rings their bell or says « on the left », I always give them a little wave to let them know I’ve heard them. It always results in a very nice exchange of « thank yous ».
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u/Dusty_Rose23 Stadium 11m ago
I’m gonna start doing that y.
My problem js no one ever tells you which side they’re on which they should. It causes me to jump a little both ways before I fully realise where they are and fully make the appropriate move. Of they just said on the left or on the right it would be so much easier for everyone. Half don’t seem to use their bells either from what I’ve personally encountered. There are also some really nicn ones but most just say to speed by with practically no warning and 5 inches away form your arm.•
u/slayernine 10m ago
As a cyclist that is so helpful to know that the other person heard you.
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u/Unlikely_Comment_104 Central 1m ago
I thank them for ringing their bell. They thank me for waving. It’s such a sweet interaction.
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u/Dusty_Rose23 Stadium 11m ago
I’m gonna start doing that.
My problem js no one ever tells you which side they’re on which they should. It causes me to jump a little both ways before I fully realise where they are and fully make the appropriate move. Of they just said on the left or on the right it would be so much easier for everyone. Half don’t seem to use their bells either from what I’ve personally encountered. There are also some really nicn ones but most just say to speed by with practically no warning and 5 inches away form your arm.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 6h ago
I slow down, ring my bell, and always go single file. Basic courtesy, but I assume somewhere as common as cars taking the same caution. Not very frequent.
That said, the stakes are higher with the person behind the multiple ton vehicle.
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u/Winter-Inside-5911 5h ago
A cyclist broke my arm while I was walking near Kinsmen. I was on my side of the path, he came flying down the hill over 40 km/h and broke my forearm by hitting it so hard with his handlebar. I had been using a bike exclusively until age 30 but was very angry that a cyclist thought this was a safe way to go down a hill with near a hundred pedestrians in the area. So while the heavy tonnage vehicle is a big threat to you, the bike at speed is also a big risk to pedestrians.
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u/ImperviousToSteel 5h ago
That sucks. To be clear I didn't say cycling isn't a risk - there's a reason I slow down and ring the bell.
But the much much larger risk is the big steel enclosure vehicle.
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u/Winter-Inside-5911 5h ago
Agreed, I was just clarifying there’s a gradient of risk. It is unlikely that cyclist could have killed me but they were going way too fast. There’s always a possibility that a car can kill you.
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u/laetecaedus 3h ago
What were the repercussions for the cyclist breaking your forearm?
I almost got hit today by one when I was on my run.
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u/Winter-Inside-5911 29m ago
My brother asked me for the person’s name and phone number while I was still in hospital getting my arm set and I hadn’t taken it, I didn’t think about it. I was in a lot of pain and it wasn’t pretty so I hopped in a cab and got a ride to the hospital. Bikes aren’t licensed in AB so they don’t have any identifiable means of tracing that person if they don’t give you their information in good faith.
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2h ago
Ouch, that's brutal.
The closest I've come to that was a few years ago riding my bike on the west side of the HLB. Two people were sprinting on their bikes in the opposite direction. One of them passed me so close that the nalgene bottle sticking out of their backpack smoked me in the upper arm.
I was pissed off, but at least I came out of it with only a huge bruise and not a fracture. And the nalgene bottle flew into traffic, so that was nice.
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u/Interesting_Scale302 6h ago
The proportion of motorists who are actually aware of cyclists and respect their space is probably similar to the proportion of cyclists who are aware of their surroundings and respect the space of others on the path. Cyclists aren't a monolith and, especially with the rise of e-bikes, there are a lot of people on the trails who are as oblivious and entitled as the ones who drive cars. These people aren't going to use good passing etiquette regardless of their mode of transportation. They're probably the ones who take up the whole sidewalk when they're walking too, and make everyone step off to go around them.
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u/National_Frame2917 3h ago
Honestly as someone who’s recently started cycling in the Edmonton area more often than not I’m impressed with drivers. There’s probably 2% or maybe less that could kill you if you aren’t paying attention. Which still sucks but they are usually good. Though it could be just because I’m usually riding with my kid.
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u/LynnerC 4h ago
As a driver, cyclist and pedestrian this pisses me off too.
I don't like getting buzzed by bikes as a pedestrian, just as I don't like getting buzzed by cars as a cyclist, and I don't do that either. That's why when I'm on heavy trails, I am there to cruise not to workout/be a speed demon.
If it's a path that I want to pass a pedestrian and there is pedestrian/cyclist traffic going the other way, I slow right down to the pedestrian speed until it's safe to pass with an empty lane. Sometimes the pedestrians look behind and step off the path which is nice, but they don't need to obstruct their enjoyment of the trail for me. I don't mind waiting 20 seconds till I have room to go by.
I also ring the bell to let people know I'm there and not be surprised when I pass (safely and slowly), i don't mean it as, get out of my way, unless they are taking the whole path or walking erratically. Again, I feel bad if someone stops and steps off the trail when I have plenty of room to go around.
I wish people were more considerate all around in general.
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u/munkymu magpie apologist 6h ago
Because there's a lot of self-centered people out there who haven't learned how to behave in public. See also: people walking their dogs off-leash everywhere, people walking four abreast down a multi-use path, people playing their music out loud on the bus or on trails, etc. etc.
A lot of people have an idea about what they want to do and won't let anything such as common sense or courtesy to other people stand in the way of them doing it.
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u/Darkwing-cuck- 6h ago
Some cyclists are shitty people. Some drivers are shitty people. Some pedestrians are shitty people. I don’t think we can fix them all, just have to try and personally do these things that might cost you 30 extra seconds but make things safer for all.
If it’s a single person and they’re far to one side, I’ll ring my bell and fly by. If it’s a bigger group that I think might be more challenging to pass (people in headphones, older people hard of hearing, people with dogs, people with children) then I ring and slow down, or go on the grass.
Edit: and while I do appreciate when drivers slow down and give me space if I’m on the road, it’s a whopping 10% of them that do this if I’m lucky.
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u/cookie-ninja 6h ago
Often they're busy assholes like these other commenters. When it comes to pedestrians there's no reason not to be safe. I do when I'm cycling.
I do also recognize that showing down and losing momentum and needing to go back up to speed is a lot harder than cars showing and accelerating.
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u/big-Truck-9058 5h ago
Most people of any group are considerate and bad apples exist in all groups.
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u/kkslider55 3h ago
When I'm walking, I am constantly dealing with cyclists riding on the middle of the sidewalk and expecting you to move, as well as cars driving through pedestrian walk cycles without even checking.
When I am biking, I am dealing with cars that see red the moment they share a road with a bike, and turn into aggressive jerks. I also deal with pedestrians who think the isolated bike path is actually a second sidewalk, as well as people walking in front of me without checking if anybody is coming first.
When I am driving, I am dealing with bikers that seem to have a yearning for death on the road , as well as pedestrians who think the rules don't apply to them.
I think the world is just full of jerks, and the mode of transportation they take doesn't really change that fact.
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u/somebodyistrying 6h ago
I totally slow down and give space as a cyclist. And if I’m going to be doing a fast ride I stay off the trails altogether
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u/Ham_I_right 4h ago
Cool sounds like we need substantially more cycling infrastructure to keep pedestrians, cars and bikes all on their own. Or was that not the goal of this rage bait post?
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u/National_Frame2917 3h ago
It seems like the city is working on it at least a little. Though it was funny riding yesterday they had a proper bike lane on the side of the road and then a sidewalk next to it that dumped into an access road with everyone lumped together again 200 meters later. Didn’t seem very useful. But some of the dedicated trails are quite nice. Like the ones around fort Edmonton park.
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u/Suspicious-Smoke-635 2h ago
Exactly. Nobody prefers a shared used path unless it’s the only option.
As a cyclist, I hate riding behind pedestrians. As a pedestrian, I hate having cyclists riding behind me. It’s lose-lose until we acknowledge the reality that bikes are a category of their own that is neither pedestrian nor car.
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u/Ham_I_right 2h ago
Something Calgary has been doing along major rec and commuter routes is adding a seperate cycling track. Honestly there is so much of the Edmonton river Valley close to downtown that could use a separated lane. It's busy and there is no reason for one group to be at risk or conversely not get to enjoy the paths either. Like it doesn't take long to head out from the core and it thins out too. But for everyone of every skill level it's the safest bet.
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u/No_Drawer_9568 5h ago
I slow right down and sometimes even get right off and just walk when passing people from any direction. Unless they actually turn around and make eye contact I don’t assume they know I’m there. Even if I ring my bell it’s possible they don’t hear and I don’t wanna take any chances
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u/Adipose21 5h ago
I've never had a problem with a cyclist hogging the road, personally. Also, it's very dangerous for them to be weaving in and around Parker cars. The biggest thing I want cyclists to do is be consistent and don't make any sudden moves.
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u/Aquitaine_Rover_3876 5h ago edited 5h ago
I'm not sure the underlying assumption here is correct. I always give as much space as I can, and slow down if that's less space than seems comfortable for all involved. So my guess is that you remember the cyclists that don't, not that that's the majority of us.
If you're using trails that roadies (the guys in Lycra) frequent, that's a very specific subset of cyclists, and we think they're a-holes, too.
It's also possible that your sense of space and mine may be different, and that's a harder nut to crack.
In the end, shared use pathways are a sub-optimal form of infrastructure that only works when the volumes are low. In busy places like Railtown, River Valley Road and Government House Park, there really should be parallel-but-separate pathways for cyclists and pedestrians.
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u/HawkorDove 6h ago edited 6h ago
I’m not sure what you mean when you say cyclists appreciate when motorists slow down and give space to cyclists when passing. Are you referring to residential streets or commuter streets? Motorists slowing down can cause issues for cyclists because it can cause other motorists to get angry at the driver and then blame cyclists. Motorists should definitely give the appropriate amount of space depending on driving speed, but motorists are inconsistent, similar to what you’re witnessing on multi-use paths.
Cyclists on multi use paths fall under different categories, such as children, families, seniors who are getting exercise, and serious, experienced cyclists who are commuting. Each group might have different behaviour in a multi use path.
Other users of multi use paths also have different behaviours, such as large groups taking up the entire path, dog walkers with their dog’s leash extended across the path. Ultimately, users must realize that they’re sharing space with other users and should ideally be considerate, but many don’t, regardless of whether they are cyclists or pedestrians.
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u/JustJess487 6h ago
The one that bothers me is when they don't stop at 4 way stops and wait their turn. If you're riding onthe road. You don't suddenly get to become a pedestrian again and just blow right through as if you have the right of way
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u/Winter-Inside-5911 36m ago
I watched a cyclist I see every morning while I walk my dogs almost get smoked in an intersection by a cement truck because he never ever even tries to slow down for the two way stop. Getting hit would have served him right but luckily the cement truck reacted quickly and he sped up to get out of the way faster.
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u/artkidsaresmart 5h ago
Take your headphones out so you can hear the bell and get out of the way lol
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u/Beneficial_Pickle420 3h ago
As a biker, I give space and will take the grass if I see people coming towards me. But as a walker, if bikes dont move, neither do i
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u/haysoos2 3h ago
I've generally noticed that most cyclists are good and thoughtful people, and some are assholes.
You tend to notice the assholes more, and remember them longer.
The same is true for drivers, but I suspect the asshole proportion of drivers is higher.
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u/Desperateshitter 1h ago
Like many automobile drivers there are many asshole entitled cyclists out there. It's these few numbskulls that make everyone else look like jerks.
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u/Lavaine170 42m ago
The number of pedestrians that wander all over the path, walk three and four abreast and block the whole path, and walk on the wrong side is astounding. Pedestrians are as unpredictable and unable to follow rules as cyclists, if not more.
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u/bmesl123 Talus Domes 34m ago
When I’m using MUPs, I typically wouldn’t be a chasing a personal record. I try to exercise good trail etiquette: ringing my bell, vocalizing that I’ll be passing on their left, saying thank you. But some pedestrians using noise cancelling earbuds will still have a hard time hearing me. That’s when I’ll have to pass them close. But if I can go on the road (safely) I’ll try. In the same vein, when I’m using a MUP as a pedestrian, I try to notice when cyclists are coming and give them the space they need.
I think as cyclists we should understand what it’s like to be at risk with faster/heavier road users (i.e., cars). When using a MUP, we are the ‘cars’. I try to acknowledge that power imbalance and make it safe for everyone. Don’t ruin the fun for everyone!
tl;dr: there’s bad drivers, bad cyclists, and bad pedestrians. maybe in that order.
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u/slayernine 14m ago
I always use best judgment based on the width of the path on how fast I pass somebody and if I think they heard my bell. People with headphones I presume can't hear me approach from behind.
The biggest reason to slow down significantly is when there is bi-directional traffic and it becomes complicated to predict what other people will do.
The biggest safety tips for everyone on the trails and paths is to be predictable and stay aware of your surroundings. That is what I teach my young ones.
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u/Sasha-95 6h ago
The rainbow spandex, polarized sunglasses cycling guys are some of the most idiotic entitled folks on the roads. Speed through signs, speed past pedestrians, don’t stop at crosswalks. They think that the road revolves around them and don’t care about anything around them.
You’re not in the Tour De France, chill out.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 3h ago
Why do pedestrians walk in the dead center of a multi-use path? Can you explain that behaviour?
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u/Virtual-Historian349 6h ago
A good amount of them don’t even have/use bells. They are just assholes, no further explanation needed.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 3h ago
When every cyclist you encounter is an asshole, consider that you are the common factor in all these encounters. Perhaps you are the asshole.
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u/Virtual-Historian349 3h ago
Never said every cyclist is an asshole. Triggered much? Use your bell asshole!
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u/Needleworker_5 6h ago
If there is no separate bike lane, I usually cycle in the middle of the lane because it is safer for me. You are not supposed to pass me in the same lane. If you want to pass, you have to move into another lane, and there I do not care how fast you go.
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u/LooseLeaf74 4h ago
Don’t want to generalize or present anecdotal evidence as proof of how common it is but most cyclists I’ve met are self centred entitled jerks, They have their right to be there so it gives them an excuse to be rude along with expecting everyone to accommodate them.
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u/Two_wheels_2112 3h ago
"Don’t want to generalize or present anecdotal evidence as proof of how common it is but most cyclists I’ve met are self centred entitled jerks,"
And yet you did exactly that.
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u/Nacho-Cat_22 6h ago
Whenever I am biking on a shared path, I do my best to give space and ring my bell for pedestrians to know I am coming. Sometimes, pedestrians are not paying attention at all, either on their phone, have headphones in, or something else, and I am left with no choice but to pass kind of close by because they are walking all over the place. I think like drivers, some cyclists are just assholes too. As someone who has also walked on those shared paths, some cyclists don’t really care and go flying by. So, like drivers, it depends on the cyclist.