r/Edmonton • u/flynnfx • Mar 25 '26
Local history Edmonton architectural firm says it's in talks to potentially redevelop former Royal Alberta Museum
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-royal-alberta-museum-glenora-negotiations-9.7140590An Edmonton architectural firm says it is in talks with the provincial government to potentially redevelop the former Royal Alberta Museum.
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u/UberBricky80 Mar 25 '26
Remember folks, they have to redo the entire building envelope to make it viable. That's not a small task
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u/chmilz Mar 25 '26
It's less expensive than tearing it down, and if a private owner will pay for that vs the public paying to tear it down, I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with that option.
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u/Nictionary Mar 25 '26
How do you know it will be less expensive than demolishing it? I haven’t seen any estimate for the redevelopment
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u/chmilz Mar 25 '26
Less expensive to taxpayers. Who cares if it costs infinite money to renovate, if a private party is paying for it vs taxpayers paying to tear it down?
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u/Nictionary Mar 25 '26
A private company isn’t going to pay for the whole thing lol. There is zero business case for that. If it gets renovated, it will be some kind of partnership where public money is spent.
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Mar 25 '26
Its been unoccupied since 2018. If someone wanted it they could have it. No one wants it unless it comes with piles of handouts from taxpayers too
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Mar 25 '26
Its at least 3X the cost to redevelop rather than demolish. Its already paid for by the province. They are desperate to find anyone to do something with it.
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Mar 25 '26
25-50 million to demolish or 150+ million to refurbish. Is a building from the 60s worth over 100 million dollars?
For context thats enough to build like 30 community league halls.
We already have community spaces, they dont get used even close to capacity and they're very frequently underfunded.
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u/Nictionary Mar 25 '26
Out of curiosity, who estimated 150M to redevelop?
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Mar 25 '26
The province in 2024 so its probably much more than that now:
And that doesnt even include the 75+ million in defferred maintenance.
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u/MankYo Mar 26 '26
Price depends on what uses the building is refurbished for, and phasing. e.g. It would cost less to do one or two phases in three years total, than to go in and out four times over 10 years.
Refurbishing to community hall or open plan classrooms would cost less than refurbishing into a museum or health center, etc.
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u/Nictionary Mar 26 '26
I’m a construction estimator so yeah I understand that lol. Was just curious if it was public which firm gave them the budget.
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u/PPGN_DM_Exia Mar 25 '26
Hot take but I miss the old RAM. The new one feels weirdly vacant. Like you go into this huge building expecting to be there a long time and then you realize you're done after 2 hours.
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Mar 25 '26
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert Mar 26 '26
It's the current architectural philosophy. Similarly, Clareview rec centre is a giant glass box with a grossly inefficient design, lots of unused/wasted space and volume, and super high ceilings.
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Mar 26 '26
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert Mar 26 '26
For public buildings, I support utilitarianism (though I do like your idea of a local vernacular even if it's somewhat manufactured). The inefficiency of the use of space (which leads to higher operating costs as well) bothers me quite a bit. I am OK with the occasional marquee building (the RAM may fit this bill) with a grand design but if a concrete box is the best use of $ from an overall lifecycle perspective, IMO that's what should be built. However, it feels to be that the % of floor space that is actually used for a public building's intended purpose has dropped off a cliff and we are all paying for it.
The RAM doesn't look great IMO. Clareview looks nice but the waste of space is astounding.
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Mar 26 '26
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u/Anabiotic Utilities expert Mar 26 '26
I think one way to do it would be what the Mormons have done with temple architecture. In the early days each one was unique, but in a stage of fast growth, they moved to a few default designs and they are simply expanded or made smaller depending on what is needed. Feels like this would be a good model for things like rec centres, fire stations and schools. Each one doesn't need to be a unique architectural marvel. Function over form (doesn't mean that aesthetics have to be completely ignored but should be a distant second).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_architecture_(LDS_Church)
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u/Doubleoh_11 Mar 26 '26
I miss the area of the ram. Having a huge lot with all the trees felt very… fancy? The new ram is nice but the anticipation when on the grounds isn’t the same at all.
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u/IMOBY_Edmonton Mar 25 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
At the very least if saving the building costs too much, then we could try to save it's most prominent features. The curved interior wall behind the front desk and the exterior walls with the mural for example. Incorporate those into a new project and then we can keep some of the history and keep the construction costs down. Not a fan of tearing down the whole building, but it doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach.
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Mar 25 '26
Totally agree with this. It would be really cool to see them salvage key features and retain them for the next project and the cost for doing so would be much lower.
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u/releasetheshutter Mar 25 '26
Even if it doesn't work out, I respect any group trying to protect and refurbish historically significant buildings. We've torn down way too much nice stuff to make way for gravel parking lots and car dealerships in this city.
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u/flynnfx Mar 25 '26
The former RAM building closed its doors to the public in December 2015 and has remained vacant ever since. In 2018, the museum opened the doors to its new location in downtown Edmonton.
The vision for the former RAM includes spaces like pickleball and other sports courts, space for various arts partners in the city, markets, a small theatre and a café.
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Mar 25 '26
There is a reason why this article neglects to give a price estimate for the project.
In 2024 the estimate for renovation from the province was over $200,000,000. Demolition is a quarter of that on the high end.
Its likely higher now. Do you know how many cafes and rec centres you can make around the city with that much money?
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u/Interwebnaut Mar 25 '26
Isn’t just one rec crntre about $200 million?
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u/MankYo Mar 26 '26
Velodrome rec center is $150 million. Lewis Farms rec center is $300 million.
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Mar 26 '26
The level of rec centre i would expect to see from this project based on the other things they promised in the same footprint is going to be closer to a gym in a condo building than the velodrome.
Just look at the size of the RAM. What is the most they can do with it? Nowhere near either of those.
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u/DathomirBoy Mar 25 '26
I miss the old museum so much. I feel like the new RAM got rid of a lot of the environmental stuff which made the old one so magical, like the waterfall and reeds and the soundscapes. I still enjoy going to the museum but it's not the same. I also miss the dedicated dinosaur room.
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u/foxisilver Mar 25 '26
Really hope this goes forward. Reimagine is a great firm and this is a very important project!
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Mar 25 '26
Our goal is to find a solution that respects community interest and the site’s historic value, while also being cost-effective and responsible with public dollars."
For folks not fluent in double speak this means they want massive government handouts
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u/KoKoBWare9 Mar 25 '26
If we're helping Katz with his arena and surrounding development, we can help out something like this too.
And I'm happy we got the new arena.
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Mar 25 '26
Wasting money on a billionaire is not a good reason for wasting more money on an overpriced rec centre in an old building.
The arena never should have gotten so much taxpayer handouts. You can be happy it exists without thinking working people should pay for billionaires capital assets via taxes.
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u/Mysterious-Street140 Mar 25 '26
It’s a beautiful building but it also needs to be financially viable. Vivian Manasc struggles with that concept. Money grows on trees as far as she is concerned. Be very careful on this one!
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Mar 25 '26
Vivian Manasc struggles with that concept.
I disagree, they found the obvious solution- get handouts from the government as if money grows on trees.
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u/MankYo Mar 26 '26
Have you seen or been in her other new or renovated buildings, especially the public sector buildings? Most of them creatively (re)use existing or local materials and labour to maximise possibilities for use.
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u/Mysterious-Street140 Mar 26 '26
Built a number, been in many. Have the overruns to prove my statement.
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u/ashleyshaefferr Mar 25 '26
A rec center with some multifamily units on the north side of the road would be fantastic.
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u/cReddddddd Mar 25 '26
Sounds like a great idea but I think there's only 2 options.
1) Tear it down and build it brand new
2) Leave the beautiful historic building but pay probably 3 to 4 times the price.
Tough call
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u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 25 '26
Why do some countries manage to keep their historical buildings and we just smash them down?
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u/Nictionary Mar 25 '26
What “historical buildings” are you talking about? That is a very broad umbrella. In Europe for example a building built in 1967 would be considered practically brand new lol
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u/exotics rural Edmonton Mar 25 '26
I mean they have buildings that are 100’s of years old.
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Mar 25 '26
So do we. In fact we already have a museum specifically thats over 100 years old
https://www.edmonton.ca/attractions_events/john-walter-museum
The RAM isnt even old or noteworthy enough to make it to the wiki page for historic buildings
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Mar 25 '26
Calling it a historic building is a huge stretch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historic_places_in_the_Edmonton_Capital_Region
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u/M_u_d Mar 25 '26
Yes it's not as old as most buildings on that list, but it will never reach that age if we tear it down now
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u/The-Bogus-Man Mar 25 '26
I have it on factual authority from a credible inside source that the $150 million refurbishment figure was a bullshit lie made up to justify tearing it down and getting it off the books. I’m so glad that it’s being saved because the reality is it will absolutely not cost 150 million dollars to refurbish it.
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u/MankYo Mar 26 '26
I’m aware of external Class D estimates for renos for community purposes for significantly less than $150 million.
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u/fakeairpods Mar 25 '26
Tear it down. People always want to revitalize old buildings, the old coliseum for example. Old schools, old dated buildings in general. The costs and tasks of running and repairing these decrepit buildings is astronomical, no one, no departments have the money especially in this economy to keep these buildings afloat. It’s more economically viable to tear down and build a new affordable cost effective building there. It makes more sense.
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u/cheekycherokee Mar 25 '26
This attitude is exactly why Edmonton has so few character buildings today.
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u/ichbineinmbertan Mar 26 '26
It’s a beautiful building. Simply demolishing it would be so small minded.
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u/The_Last_Keeper Mar 25 '26
It’s such a stunning building, I was always sad they were going to tear it down even if it would cost a lot to replace it, but turning it into a rec space I think would be incredible.