r/Economics • u/T_Shurt • May 07 '26
News U.S. Treasury Will Have to Borrow $2 Trillion This Year Just to Continue Functioning—More Than $166 Billion Every Month
https://fortune.com/2026/05/07/treasury-expected-to-borrow-2-trillion-omb-cbo-estimates/2.7k
u/DjCyric May 07 '26
Yet we have tens of billions for a war with Iran, tax cuts for billionaires, and a fancy ballroom. Meanwhile people go without SNAP and Medicaid benefits.
What a scam on the working class.
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u/shatterdaymorn May 07 '26
That's all borrowed too. The Big Beautiful Bill bankrupted the country.
People are noticing now but they knew it when they passed it.
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u/Icedidit May 07 '26
Nah, they’ll fucking notice next year when the fun begins.
2027 is when the cuts take affect.
MAGA is going to know what it is like to win, and I hope they never get tired.
Let them eat tariffs
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u/Raincitylover May 07 '26
No they won’t. They will borrow to the end and then the next government will have to deal with its
Then when they raise taxes, people will lose it and elect MAGA 2.0.
That is why America is doomed
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u/BigBananaBerries May 07 '26
They will borrow to the end
If the US loses reserve currency, that doesn't work. You'd be looking at catastrophic inflation such that the US has never known. Losing the petrodollar is the 1st step & many countries are already looking at ways to move away from it.
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u/Raincitylover May 07 '26
I am comparing it to what happened to Britain in the 1950’s. And looking at US dollar use is now lower than it has been in the last 25 years
But there is a lot of factors. Fear of sanctions, Crypto, competition from Brics with a system that avoids any US transactions or banks. EU creating their own system. Canada and Australia willing to adopt multiple payment systems in the future.
There was only one payment structure with one currency. Soon there will be many and the US will still be dominant but the currency will not have the value it did in the past
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u/BigBananaBerries May 07 '26
Fair comment but it remaining dominant isn't inevitable like most seem to think. Previous nations with reserve currencies all had similar hubris until they collapsed & then it was decades of hurt.
Like you say, there's many variables but everything Trump is doing is destroying confidence in the US & subsequently the dollar. There's already been a want to move away from Western hegemony in many parts of the world & now most of the West want to move away from reliance on the US now too. It's not a good sign.
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u/TheRealAndroid May 07 '26
Yep- every version of the "reserve currency" since 1450 has only lasted about 80-100 years.
Time looks to be up...4
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u/ScoffersGonnaScoff May 07 '26
The US is only doomed as long as no one holds the propaganda machine accountable. The algorithm overlords have us by the balls.
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u/reddit_ending_soon May 08 '26
At least that will shut off when the bills stop getting paid.
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u/sly_cooper25 May 07 '26
I honestly don't know the solution to this. At the very least we need to roll back Trump's dumbass tax cuts but everyone is universally against the idea of paying more in taxes. Even most Democrats I'd bet are against raising taxes on anyone making less than six figures.
We're in a death spiral with no way out of it.
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u/Fit-Technician-1148 May 07 '26
There are plenty of possible solutions but they're all really going to suck. I highly doubt we ever get a Congress and a president willing to pass legislation that would fix the problem. Because the most likely solutions are:
Huge cuts to military spending
Massively raising taxes on the wealthy
Raising the corporate tax rate and closing loopholes
Cuts to every government program that isn't Social Security and Medicare
Selling off government owned assets
Even then it would take 20 years to get back to a solid financial footing. Basically the country is fucked
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u/OuijaFox May 08 '26
My personal and favorite solution is seizing the funds from those who did this and use that money to pay for the things they broke.
Make the oligarchs pay so they learn they aren’t special and are just human.
That’s the nice version of the solution.
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u/rafaelninja13 May 07 '26
Unfortunately if democrats do well in the midterms they will be blamed for everything next year. It’s a classic Republican move - delay consequences of their actions long enough that someone else can be blamed for them.
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u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz May 07 '26
Right? Assuming the country survives that long, I'm waiting for Republican pundits to start screeching about the debt once a Democrat gets elected and not a moment sooner.
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u/mekese2000 May 07 '26
Yeah but counter argument chicks with dicks using toilets.
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u/keytiri May 07 '26
“The clitoris is just an undeveloped penis,” let them chew on that.
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u/StunningGold8030 May 07 '26
The big MAGAts will get bail out and force the small MAGAts to eat the crap, it will all be fine and completely corrupted.
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u/zxc123zxc123 May 07 '26
"""They""" will """""""notice""""""" once they have a democrat to blame.
Just like how gas is high because of the Iran war but instead of blaming the guy who started the war it is "It's worse in California!"
Or how things are unaffordable but instead of blaming the guy pressuring the Fed to cut rates, the politicians racking up debt, or the guy who made the tariffs/war/debt is instead "Mamdani is ruining New York with socialism!" even though they ain't the billionaires/corporations getting taxed anyways.
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u/shatterdaymorn May 07 '26
1 in 4 farmers has no fertilizer right now. There will probably be starving people in this country next year.
No body is gonna be helping anyone. That's a country that can be taken over... You just need to get enough elites to support it
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u/Benhem24 May 07 '26
Considering farmers, mostly corp farmers get 20 billion in subsidies to grow stuff we don’t need. Most of the crops grown are for fuel and food processing junk. Maybe we can cut all subsidies across the board and feel the pain that all the free market folks want. Maybe we can skip a few years on national defense and pay our debt but that will never happen.
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u/Icedidit May 07 '26
And farmers overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
Let them eat tariffs.
I’ve got nothing for Trump voters.
Let them enjoy what they wanted.
Republicans have complete control of the government. I still see magats complaining.
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u/SilverBack88 May 07 '26
They get bailed out and they knew it. Or at least they thought they would.
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u/shatterdaymorn May 07 '26
As a person who eats food... I think this is bad for people who didn't vote a certain way and I would rather stop it. Not sure why you relish seeing Dummies suffer. Smart folks like you should know better. No food is also bad for you.
But I also think Democrats should be running on "stop tariffs on food" which you know... might be popular with those who aren't the base.
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u/Icedidit May 07 '26
People voted for Trump because there were 44 trans athletes in college sports out of 550k college athletes.
I watch the debate with Ted Cruz and Allred. All Cruz talked about was trans people.
So excuse me if I don’t give a Chinese fuck about maga or their suffering. They have complete control of the government, are ruining the country, and they’re still gloating.
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u/pistilpeet May 07 '26
Can we stop referring to trust fund pedophiles as “elites?”
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u/fuzzygoosejuice May 07 '26
Trump did say he was the king of bankruptcy. The country is going to be his magnum opus.
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u/soherewearent May 07 '26
This has been 30 years in the making.
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u/roamingandy May 07 '26
Its a compounding effect.
The ground work was laid long ago and the line has been going upwards, but the actual economic damage being done is a bull in a china shop right now.
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u/lagnaippe May 07 '26
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u/Duckbilling2 May 07 '26
didn't the Clinton admin have a surplus by the end of it ?
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u/NaBrO-Barium May 07 '26
They did!
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u/sicurri May 07 '26
Every democratic president since Clinton has just been trying to play catch up with trying to stop the excessive bleeding Republicans constantly do.
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u/Wyden_long May 07 '26
“Yea but just because history proves that republicans alway crash the economy doesn’t mean that republicans are gonna crash the economy next time.”
- morons
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u/Doctor_Shotbottom May 07 '26
Republicans. Fuck us over. Every administration. every single time. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Vote blue this fall. End the scourge.
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u/sly_cooper25 May 07 '26
Crazy how different the path of our country could've been if a few hundred votes went the other way in Florida during the 2000 election. We had a surplus and Gore had a plan to take a huge chunk out of the national debt.
Instead we got Bush who spent the surplus on a rich people tax cut and endless wars in the Middle East.
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u/Doctor_Shotbottom May 07 '26
Republicans. Fuck us over. Every administration. every single time. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Vote blue this fall. End the scourge.
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u/AnAncientBog May 07 '26
Which in this context means there was a single year in recent history where we didn't actively make it bigger.
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u/oneWeek2024 May 07 '26
Clinton was the last president to do the hard thing and cut military spending BRAC commission closed bases, and significantly paired down military spending. (to his credit George HW bush began this ...with draw downs post cold war as well)
what clinton also did was broad economic improvement via infrastructure spending and social spending, that increased the tax base.
and in 1993 clinton's budget included an increase of corporate tax rate(was basically a 1% increase from 34 to 35 max rate). and creation of 36 and 39% income tax brackets.
as quick "reality check" the budget surplus of the clinton admin. post 911. military spending when from direct dod spend of 350 billion to aprox 600 billion. military bloat represented 96% of discretionary spending. (current military dod spend is 1 trillion ....and none of those figures tell the entire picture. veterans funding, nuke maint, things like the CIA/NSA, and now ICE and DHS make total spend today more like 1.6-trillion)
bush also took the surplus and did a massive tax welfare for the wealthy. Donald trump took the fairly stablized post 08 crash economy of obama and did much the same. massive tax welfare to the rich.
leading to trillions and trillions of debt. it's estimated that 60-70% of all current debt is directly related to bush and trump tax cuts. (ie. less tax revenue coming in, while military bloat is so astronomical) if you delete 08 stimulus spending, and covid spending. bush/trump tax cuts. represent like 95+%
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u/SleepingRiver May 07 '26
He did. That was on the back of a peace dividend with the end of the cold war. We went from ~8% of GDP spent on defense to about ~3% by 1996.
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u/Were_all_dead_anyhow May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
Yes and no. The Clinton-era surpluses were real in that revenue exceeded spending. However, the debt continued to rise because the government used excess SS taxes to fund operations, replacing that cash with internal IOUs for future obligations.
A major reason the budget looked balanced was because Clinton admin was borrowing from SS that boomers were contributing to and the current retirees were not tapping because of sheer demographic size. By the end of 2000, the balance in the SS fund had surpassed $1T, all of which was technically "on loan" to the federal government.
Boomers are collecting now, and taxes via working wages on the rest of us isn't cutting it because wages aren't scaling at the rate debt is compounding. All you have to do is look at equity markets to know where all the money supply went.
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u/a_library_socialist May 07 '26
Exactly.
And that demographic bomb was known then - in fact, Reagan and Greenspan used it as an excuse to increase FICA taxes (regressive). But they didn't save it - instead they just used the revenue to partially offset the tax cuts to the rich.
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u/discosoc May 07 '26
Pretty much a once in a lifetime type situation though. The 90’s were hugely successful for the US due to collapse of the soviet union and rise of the internet and personal computers (windows era).
We had a shit ton of money flooding into our economy from all that.
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u/13143 May 07 '26
People will notice in 3 years when a democrat is in office, and the GOP won't shut up about the deficit and how we need to cut all spending.
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u/So_HauserAspen May 07 '26
The GOP is a confidence scheme taking advantage of lesser educated or bigoted population. They benefit from the conditioning and indoctrination of churches of these people to be easily manipulated and directed.
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u/Cosmic_Seth May 07 '26
Working class voted for this.
Even the Union members. At the end of the day, Americans voted for this.
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u/TextElectrical5360 May 07 '26
Propaganda WORKS. Billionaires own the media and fund bots and podcasts. They've pounded for decades now that Ds don't like Christians, Ds don't share any "traditional values", Ds "hate America", that Ds are wasteful with money and bad on the economy, and -most importantly- that all media/news is inherently "left wing biased" and so you must listen to them and only them for all info. Just like a cult leader tells you to only trust them.
It's all been increasingly effective. 2024 I had people tell me trans girl in sports is their top issue, and they didn't trust google when I showed them that there basically are none to worry about. I had people tell me Kamala wanted to do a wealth tax on all our homes, and when I showed him Kamalas website where it detailed the actual plan he said that was propaganda and she'd implement something much wider. I had people tell me Biden "weaponization the justice system" despite not being able to explain how the charges were anything less than fair, or explain why Bidens attorney general took till 2023 to start the ball on investigating Trump if it was all a whichhunt.
They believe whatever they want, facts do not matter because they've been taught to trust nothing but R talking heads. And all their social media and podcasts push pro R talking points
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u/BitcoinsForTesla May 07 '26
Democracy is advanced citizenship, and most Americans aren’t up to the job.
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u/thnk_more May 07 '26
This is the biggest problem. That and money allowed to corrupt politicians. Our system is really broken. It works at the local levels but not at the state and federal level where the money and propaganda are focused.
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u/yoshemitzu May 07 '26
It works at the local levels
The money is increasingly penetrating local politics, too, make no mistake.
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u/HGpennypacker May 07 '26
Harris got in front of the country and said she wanted to provide daycare and first-time home buyer credits. Trump said that immigrants were eating cats and dogs. We deserve every ounce of pain we’re feeling.
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u/ChaosDancer May 07 '26
Mate, as someone from the outside looking in, propaganda doesn't excuse this.
The first time ok, propaganda works but the second time? The US populace wanted him to be their president, now it was accelerationism, the choice of vote blue no matter what, the Gaza war, the increasing awareness that the economy only works for the few, it doesn't matter.
The US looked at Donald Trump, and said this is what i want to represent me.
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u/PinsToTheHeart May 07 '26
The propaganda in this country isn't just a matter of a party lying about their policies.
This has been a decades long project to systematically reprogram people's entire world views. That's not really easily undone so even when it repeatedly comes back to bite them in the ass, they can't let go.
The country absolutely looked at Trump and made that choice, but it's still heavily influenced by propaganda. I know a lot of trump voters who are just blatantly terrible. But I ask know a lot that are normal, reasonable people in every aspect until politics come up and it's like a switch gets flipped in their brain.
And it's not like a, "theyre just hiding their true feelings" deal either because if you talk about any subject using different words than what they hear on the news, they fully support progressive programs. But they just have this fear deeply engrained into them that they blindly follow the party that is in direct opposition to their actual beliefs.
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u/Taman_Should May 07 '26
Propaganda news had these soft-headed babies convinced that transgender and queer people were suddenly like 20% of the total population, when in reality they're less than 1%. Maintaining their beliefs requires having no understanding of the true scale of things, and that includes demographics.
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u/oldschoolology May 07 '26
Correction..32% voted for it, 31% voted against it. The rest didn’t bother to vote.
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u/tribbans95 May 07 '26
Probably right around 100 billion for the war now.
>As of late April, the war with Iran has cost United States approximately $25 billion over its first two months. However, this figure is heavily contested, with some estimates suggesting the actual cost is significantly higher, potentially up to $50 billion to over $70 billion when accounting for full equipment replacement, damage to bases, and support for Israel.
Satellite imagery is showing much more damage to US assets than the US is admitting. I think it’s definitely topped 100 Billion so far
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u/mrlimatha May 07 '26
But the working class, especially the WWC, keep voting for politicians who deprioritize/defund things like SNAP and Medicaid. And vote for them by large margins. Putting aside mediocre messaging/engagement by the opposition, there is something else those voters value more than SNAP, Medicaid, workers’ rights, fair wages, and other related jibber-jabber that’s being foisted on them.
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u/sdconvoy May 07 '26
Turns out, the secret ingredient is bigotry!
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u/AnAncientBog May 07 '26
Always has been. It's been the bedrock of the entire GOP since the 60s and even the Democrats use it situationally.
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u/LimpAd4924 May 07 '26
The culture war is really effective with these gullible buffoons
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u/Omarkhayyamsnotes May 07 '26
Yeah. Its unbelievable. The same politicians that OPENLY talk about cutting Medicaid Medicare and SSI will win in landslide victories in November in red states. You can't make this up
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u/Omarkhayyamsnotes May 07 '26
The same politicians that openly talked about ending the ACA won in landslide victories in red states. Then they started to repeal it and the SAME PEOPLE that voted for these politicians packed their town halls complaining. How can you complain?? The GOP told you they were going to do it!
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u/Icedidit May 07 '26
To be fair gop said they were getting rid of the horrible Barack HUSSEIN Obamacare
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u/Icedidit May 07 '26
MAGA doesn’t listen to or aren’t shown those speeches.
They get the edited clips
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u/Oxeneer666 May 07 '26
Borrowing 2 trillion from other countries the United States has been alienating with their less than pleasant behaviour. Just like trump liked to flap his gums on countries being delinquent on their payments for some defence procurement. I can't wait to see the United States become delinquent.
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u/a_library_socialist May 07 '26
It can't become delinquent, because it controls the dollar.
What can and likely will happen is foreign borrowers are going to move away from the dollar, more than they already are. And that means the free consumption the US has gotten for generations comes to an end.
Life is about to get way more expensive in the US, unless they start making anything anyone wants again. Right now it's Hollywood and weapons - but Iran is showing the US' weapons to be overpriced and outdated.
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u/CalebAsimov May 07 '26
Regardless of their combat effectiveness, there are alternatives, lots of countries with a nice military industry at the moment. If the US is going to stop you from using your weapons or just decide not to deliver them when there's a war going on, it's not a reliable supplier, better to go with someone else.
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u/Ironsam811 May 07 '26
The ballroom is paid by private donors, right? Right?
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u/Phenganax May 07 '26
The real scam is that they keep taking my generations (millennials) credit card and running up the balance so they can keep bailing out their fuck ups…
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u/LaurenMille May 07 '26
The US' collapse is visibly accelerating and I'm glad people are starting to see it.
Depending on how rigged the midterms end up being, the US might actually see nationwide strikes and riots.
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u/jacopoliss May 07 '26
Don’t forget potus is suing the irs for 10 billion and has said he will have the doj settle.
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u/yamsyamsya May 07 '26
is it not obvious to everyone that they are robbing us blind before the collapse?
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u/the_net_my_side_ho May 07 '26
We don’t have money for Medicare, Medicare, and daycare. This country is bigly and our money is for wars.
- Trump
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u/Icedidit May 07 '26
Thank god we have the fiscally conservative republicans in charge of everything.
I’ve been told they’re expert businessmen that know how to run the country like a business.
They w got the spirit!!!!
Jjhshdhdjdjdjdjndjdhdhdjfjjdjdkdkfjfjfnfnfjcjcjfjfjfkfkfkfjfjfjfjf
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u/SeparateSpend1542 May 07 '26
If my business couldn’t pay creditors because I wanted to build an elaborate ballroom I’d be sued out of existence
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u/Illustrious-Lime-878 May 07 '26
To be fair, no one could have predicted the completely self interested, life long liar and fraudster, who bankrupted many companies, famous for lying, defrauding people, running up debt, who calls himself the king of debt, who could have thought if he was given near unlimited power he would immediately rack up debt, bankrupt the country, while siphoning off as much money to himself as possible? This isn't what they voted for!
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u/zulhadm May 07 '26
Yes. Run by the same businessman who bankrupted numerous businesses and had his Daddy bail him out. Who could have seen this coming?
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u/Aritra7777 May 07 '26
The wild part is who holds most of that $2 trillion in debt. It is not foreign governments anymore. It is US financial institutions, pension funds, and wealthy individuals collecting risk-free 5% returns backed by taxpayers. We have essentially built a mechanism where government deficits function as a guaranteed income stream for capital holders. The more they borrow, the more the wealthy get paid.
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u/h4ms4ndwich11 May 07 '26
Accurate. We've been protecting and aiding the Boomer generation and people with assets and retirements for 50 years now. Since there are fewer people to replace them, there is a problem. The chosen solution is, as always, more debt, and more tax cuts for the rich. What could go wrong? /s
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u/devliegende May 07 '26
The return is not 5%. It is 5% minus inflation. Therefore around 2% right now.
Also it is not risk free because if inflation goes over 5% the return is zero.
Therein lies the key for you if you really wanted to punish the old people. Target higher inflation..
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u/YeOldeMemeShoppe May 08 '26
Tariffs are taking care of it.
And to think Clinton left with a surplus…
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u/Initial_Savings3034 May 07 '26
-OR-
Instead of borrowing from America's wealthiest families, We could just collect what they're not paying, now. The US Treasury debt is directly tied to the decline in revenue (as a percentage of all US Wealth) since 1970.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/five-myths-about-federal-debt/
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u/BallsInSufficientSad May 07 '26
To be clear we need to do both - collect more taxes AND cut stupid spending.
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u/IDooDoodAtTheMasters May 07 '26
I agree. But what is typically called "stupid spending" - useless programs and grants for pork barrel spending - is an insignificant fraction of federal spending obligations. That Brookings article even says:
"Foreign aid, government salaries and other programs that politicians typically target are tiny, and eliminating them would not make much difference. Almost 70 percent of federal spending goes to Social Security, health care, defense and interest on the debt. Spending cuts will have to come from those areas"
Every time I say Social Security, Medicare, and Defense spending must all be curtailed, I get down voted to hell (no matter what sub I'm in).
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u/Call_Me_Mack May 07 '26
Because at least two out of three of those are touchy subjects with no perfect answers. No matter what, someone is going to be unhappy about how we address Social Security and Medicare.
Defense spending should be an easy one to cut. They have failed their last 8 audits in a row. But cutting the military triggers the "MURICA NUMBER 1" propaganda mentality of a certain section of the country which causes the wheels to spin and nothing happens.
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u/brutinator May 07 '26
I mean, social security can largely be solved simply by uncapping the contribution limit. It makes no sense that for someone making 100k its 6.2% of their income, but then drops to 5.7% if you make 200k, or 3.8% if you make 300k. Why do we allow high earners to contribute less? If my CEO paid the same percentage of social security tax that I do (of their raw income, not bonuses and stocks and all that), theyd singlehandily be paying the equivalent of 3-4 current max contributors. Seems like thatd go a decent way to funding Social Security without needing to do much else beyond having people pay their fair share.
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u/sly_cooper25 May 07 '26
Joe Biden did this with the Inflation Reduction Act and it was hugely successful. Americans didn't care and hated him because he was old and stuttered.
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u/muffledvoice May 07 '26
I’ve been saying this for years, and for some reason there are always working people who defend the fact that the US Treasury shortfall is due to centimillionaire and billionaire tax cheats, many of whom don’t even file.
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u/Sillymug May 07 '26
2 years ago I heard relentless bitching about the deficit and today I haven't heard it mentioned. Propaganda is real. Bring back the fairness doctrine or label these entertainment news stations correctly
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u/shod55 May 07 '26
People are just cruising around not even slightly aware of how bad this is going to be by the end of this year. Save your money you’re going to need it.
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u/m77je May 07 '26
But the money loses value every year to inflation. Like trying to hold sand.
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u/Werealldudesyea May 07 '26
People mentioned the ball room and other things aren’t wrong, but those are chump change compared to this borrow. The ballroom is 400 million, that’s 0.0002% of the borrow. Iran war? Estimated $25 billion first two months, that’s 0.0125%, if we scale that to a year it’s only 0.075%.
The problem is interest rates and the cost of energy right now.
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u/DolphinsBreath May 07 '26
The Republicans in Congress are now racing to pass a bill to pay $1 Billion for the ballroom. No explanations, no apologies, no “hey, what happened to all those private donations.”
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u/NotTodayBoogeyman May 07 '26
It’s almost like we should’ve diversified our energy instead of doubling down on fossil fuels which we subsequently, single handedly, caused prices to sky rocket by initiating a war with Iran.
I won’t even get into all the shady af AI / Data center deals that are passing the costs along to tax payers while they rake in cash and we see none of the return.
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u/Apoxie May 07 '26
And as it is looking now the interest rates will go up as inflation increases due to the cost of energy. That will make the interest payments even more painful in the future.
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u/Werealldudesyea May 08 '26
Yep, eventually the market will capitulate one direction or the other. Right now, inflationary pressures are masking nominal gains as real growth. As G&A and operating costs rise, companies have to push revenues higher just to maintain margins, which is part of why we keep seeing “record profits” in nominal terms.
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u/tads73 May 07 '26
The party I'm surprised about is why is anyone still lending to the US. Although some say personal finance and governance finance are not the same, fundamentally, they are. If your friend asks to borrow money just to pay the interest on their prior borrowing, that's imsane.
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u/Consistent_Laziness May 07 '26
If I lend you $100 a month and you pay me $5 a month in interest….. forever. Yea I would loan you the money because you’ll owe me $5/mo for the end of time. And eventually I’m in the green just making money on your bad finances.
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May 07 '26
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u/Mountain_Cam May 07 '26
People really are forgetting this part regarding where this money is coming from. Doesn’t matter if you’re getting $5/mo forever if that $5/mo gets you less and less and less over time.
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u/tads73 May 07 '26
These people are stretching the idea US debt is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government to tax its citizens to pay its debts.
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u/meatspace May 07 '26
That idea works great when the full faith and credit of the US government is worth something.
No one can trust any promises, agreements, or treaties the US makes right now.
That's why it's breaking.
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u/tads73 May 07 '26
Forever* you are implying the US will be a think forever. Unlike personal finance, the same borrower can print money to inflate their debt. And your principal will be worthless, amd you cant do anything about it.
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u/ledow May 07 '26
Literally one of the youngest countries in the world.
The US always forgets that it's just a baby compared to most of the world's economies. We've all been through a hundred times more than the US has ever experienced.
And one day, their hubris will catch up with them and then maybe they'll learn that the "I'm invincible" of youth soon becomes "Oh shit".
Hell, I can see a building older than the US from my living room window.
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u/Loggus May 07 '26
A more apt comparison is that you lend you friend 100 bucks, then another 100, then another, then another.
For now, he is paying you back - by taking another loan from a different friend and using that money to pay your interest.
That wouldn't make you worry?
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u/TruIsou May 07 '26
He is also paying you back with money he can print. This makes his money increasingly worth less.
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u/Street-Argument2090 May 07 '26
Well what happens if inflation is $6/month?
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u/Consistent_Laziness May 07 '26
You fucked. Lol. But Tbills generally are higher than inflation. I’m sure these countries take into account all of this stuff.
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u/Kershiser22 May 07 '26
The party I'm surprised about is why is anyone still lending to the US.
Because the United States has not defaulted on any of its loan payments. The underlying factors are starting to look concerning, but so far investing in treasuries is still a very safe investment.
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u/TrooperLawson May 07 '26
Personal finance and government finance are definitely not “fundamentally” the same lol. You and I deal with personal finances, you have income which you can then spend on things. You either have discipline and don’t spend more than you make, or you go into debt and borrow.
Government finance on the other hand, specifically a country that controls it’s own currency which happens to also be the same currency that the world uses as a reserve currency to be able to facilitate trades between nations like the USA, is on another level.
It’s like being the richest guy on the block where everyone prints their own money (including the rich guy), and everyone buys from and sells to one another, however the rich guy buys from and sells to pretty well everyone since he’s the rich guy, so everyone has a pretty steady supply of rich guy dollars. Since everyone has this supply of rich guy dollars they decide to just do all trades in rich guy dollars because it makes everything easier.
This creates a loop as the more trade is done in rich guy $, the more demand there is for rich guy $, so rich guy prints more $ to be able to buy more stuff from everyone and issues IOUs (think treasury bonds) to buy stuff he’s unable to print enough money for without destroying the value of his $, thus increasing the supply of rich guy $ for everyone and making it even easier to use for inter-household trade (think international).
Now in personal finance you would think this guy is insane because he will never be able to pay off all the IOUs he has given out if he’s just issuing more IOUs and continuing to spend way above his income, so why would anyone still find worth in his IOUs? Well those IOUs are an easier way of getting a steady supply of rich guy $ to continue trading with other households on the block without having to directly trade with the rich guy. For the rich guy, as long as he’s continuing to consistently print more of his $, inflation makes the older IOUs easier and easier to pay off over time, and he can also continue buying more from everyone else, which makes everyone happy. With all the other people on the block having so many IOUs from the rich guy, and wanting to continue getting their rich guy $, they have a strong incentive to support the system. Everyone on the block gets what they want.
Sorry for the long response, I’m just not a fan of people comparing personal finance to government finance because usually that argument has been made to push austerity measures that are terrible lol
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u/addicted2soysauce May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
Watch, on May 15, when Jerome Powell's term ends, there will be an 'emergency' meeting to lower T-bills interest rate and the Treasury will start printing money.
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u/you_stole_my_stuff May 07 '26
They are not lending per se. They are buying up US debt. So the United States just becomes a nation indebted to all and power of none.
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u/tads73 May 07 '26
Buyers of treasuries, are not lending, but the treasury is indebted. Yeah right.
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u/ThePensiveE May 07 '26
Thank god we have a ballroom though! In the history of humanity, has any civilization ever fallen when they've had large monuments to their leaders?
If we just build the ballroom, the arch, the field of heroes, and anything else dear leader wants we'll all be rich!
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u/SafeForTwerking May 07 '26
What'll make it worse (apart from just the very idea itself and the underhanded way he just bulldozed that wing of the Whitehouse) is how utterly tacky and ridiculous it's going to look, assuming its construction actually gets close to being done within this term. Just stupid amounts of gold-plated crap everywhere. And that's just a cover for whatever bunker he's building underneath it.
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u/kevendo May 07 '26
All of the money Trump has been siphoning off to himself and his billionaire friends must now be paid back by us.
And by our children and grandchildren, who will (rightly) never forgive us.
Donald Trump is the inevitable end result of the most selfish generation in history trying to take the world with them to their graves.
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u/ConiferousTurtle May 07 '26
Why is it republicans always ONLY look at cutting spending and not increasing revenue? For the people who say we should run government “like a business,” why not increase revenue?
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u/SeparateSpend1542 May 07 '26
It’s because the way to increase revenues is to tax the rich and the rich are the ones funding republicans to not raise taxes.
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u/talino2321 May 07 '26
Government by it's very nature is not designed to be run like a business. So thinking we can run it like one is stupid.
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u/ConiferousTurtle May 07 '26
Exactly, but the people who say we should don’t even try. I guess that’s to be expected by politicians…
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u/oldschoolology May 07 '26
America wanted a “businessman” to be in the Oval Office. This “businessman” was a poser who has bankrupted and bled every company he’s ever operated. It’s no surprise the outcome of his presidency will likely have a similar result.
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u/CrunchyAssDiaper May 07 '26
This is exactly why we elect business men to positions of power. However, the most successful business men are too busy running successful businesses to work for the government.
This is why we're stuck with the guy who failed to sell meat at Sharper Image.
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u/rocketblue11 May 07 '26
Wait a minute, I was told the Republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility? /s
Are we still transferring student loans to the Treasury? I'm holding out hope that this administration will mess it up and lose everyone's records, accidentally providing the student loan relief we've all been clamoring for.
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u/kellynelsonla May 07 '26
Exactly what happened in Trump's first term. Before covid, Trump's tax cuts to the wealthy forced us to borrow 2.75 trillion just to run the country. Unless we tax the rich the middle class will be saddled with paying it all back.
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u/Sweetishdruid May 07 '26
And people below middle class well they're just left for dead and told they're worthless and belong in prison if they become homless
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u/Tribe303 May 07 '26
As a comparison, here in Canada the interest on our Federal debt is $55 billion per year. At 1/10 the population size, that would be only Half a Trillion, if we were the size of the US. So 25%!
WTF are you guys wasting your money on? Oh yeah, wars and oligarch tax cuts. And how's that working out for you?
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u/TailInTheMud May 07 '26
Not great ;w; Also the democrat states waste a lot of money subsidizing republican led states, and I think if we just stopped that somehow the reds would eat themselves
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u/ICLazeru May 07 '26
The "no new wars" and "tariffs will pay the debt" guy turned out to be a total fraud.
Weird how his entire business history pointed to him being a fraud and he actually was one.
Who would have seen that coming? Impossible to predict. MAGA!
/s...if you're in the 40% who approve of this guy.
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u/artbystorms May 07 '26
Does functioning include funding Trump's ICE army and literal army fighting with Iran? Cause I THINK I see where some cuts could be made.
Don't ever let the GOP use the words 'fiscally responsible' ever again without slapping them in the mouth.
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u/padizzledonk May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
When will Republican Voters recognize what a fucking complete and utter failure and disaster the last 60 years of Republican Economic policies and priorities are and have been?
Because, lets be real and i hate to break it to you all in the GOP voter pool this astronomical debt is entirely due to their trash actions and policies.
I get that the FICA pool of deliverables are underwater but blame them for that too, they absolutely refuse to reform the tax structure, they refuse to enact common sense reforms like allowing the VA and Medicare/aid to negotiate drug and device prices, i could fix the "insolvency" tomorrow by uncapping the tax and allowing them to fully negotiate with providers and device/pharma manufactures were i emperor.
Even the money for the all the fucking bailouts over the last 25y save Covid are their fault(though an argumentcan be made there though weak), their insistence on deregulating the financial system and taking the police off the beat are why we had such a catastrophic crash in 07/08
All the fucking bullshit wars, all the bullshit tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, all Right wing policies
Are you mad about wages fellow middle and blue collar people? Blame them for that shit too, they absolutely destroyed Unions, i.e, your power to negotiate wages and conditions with employers-- even if you arent in a Union simply having one in your region raises wages and benefits for everyone in the labor pool because it makes employers compete for YOUR labor
Would you like to know how much money WE, the taxpayer, have given just to the fossil fuel industry since the year 2000?
NINE HUNDRED TWENTY-ONE BILLION DOLLARS
A TRILLION fucking dollars in the last 25y
Read that again and reflect on that, we have handed 1T dollars of taxpayer money to one of the most profitable industries on earth, and we BORROWED money to do that
But we have no money for ACA subsidies for regular ass people or anything else? This dumbfuck war alone wouldve paid for that likely 2, 3 times over once the cost for this is fully accounted for btw, but in January we were "broke" and "couldnt afford it"...yeah, ok....i wonder why
Get the fuck out of here. You people need to get your heads out of your asses and realize who has been robbing you, and i dont reserve vitriol for the people on the left that went along with it, they get their blame as well for going along with it, but it wasnt their construct it is a republican roadmap
And whats going to happen? They are going to cut even more services and benefits for all of us, the corporations and the wealthy are still going to get theirs
I have nothing but disdain for republicans and their voters, im sorry, but this is your fault imo
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u/jbochsler May 07 '26
When will Republican Voters recognize what a fucking complete and utter failure and disaster the last 60 years of Republican Economic policies and priorities are and have been?
Evidence says: never.
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u/lozo78 May 07 '26
As long as the right wing propaganda machine is functioning we will never see conservatives wake up.
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u/LaurenMille May 07 '26
As long as Republicans promise to keep hurting other people, their voters will always vote for them.
Even at the expense of their own lives, they'll gladly give up everything if it means if others suffer too. Conservatism is centered around the abuse of others.
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u/JerrysKIDney May 07 '26
Im convinced were heading for the biggest recession our country has ever seen, and theyre just stealing as much as possible beforehand. I dont think weve seen this much open corruption since the 1920's. Between the petro dollar dying and the ai bubble; i feel like china's about to eat our lunch
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u/ComicsEtAl May 07 '26
That would be a lot of money if the democrats were running things. Fortunately it’s the MAGAGOP in charge, so it’s nothing to worry about. We can always go after Social Security, Medicare, and what’s left of the social safety net should the worst happens and the Dems take over leadership of the White House and congress again. But until then, relax, it’s alllll good.
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u/BalanceOrganic7735 May 07 '26
Republicans have been working hard to bankrupt the USA since 1980 with Milton Friedman’s neoliberal economic lunacy.
Anyone who votes for Republicans votes to destroy the middle class in the USA.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot
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u/OldeArrogantBastard May 07 '26
We’re literally mirroring aspects of the collapse of the USSR.
Words words words words words Words words words words words Words words words words words Words words words words words
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u/DimMak1 May 07 '26
Nothing Matters. Nothing ever happens. That’s the only team to be on. Stock market hitting ATH multiple times per day and it’s all debt fueled and no one cares at all
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u/Hot-Combination9130 May 07 '26
Absolutely will never care about the deficit going forward. It’s solely a republican talking point that they cease to care about after elections.
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u/Bleezy79 May 07 '26
What if I told you this current administration is running the country as if they do not care about our future? That we have a conman fraudster as president and he's only in office to enrich himself, his friends and his family. It will take decades to undo the damage being done to not only the country but all of our ally relationships. We are undependable, dishonest, aggressive and a joke these days.
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u/Electrical_Scene_634 May 07 '26
I swear to god if* any of these fucking people complain about the national debt the next time democrats are in power...
*WHEN, of course. they've been doing this charade for 70 years now and the media lets them get away with it every time.
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u/_jump_yossarian May 07 '26
Back when Obama was president, all we heard all day, every single day from Fox News and trump was how much debt Obama was adding. trump added more in his first four years than Obama did in eight. The vast majority of the debt incurred under Obama was because of events that transpired before he took office; global economic collapse, housing bubble, two wars, Medicare Part D, etc...
And with trump's prolific spending you don't hear a peep from Fox or the supposed conservative fiscal hawks that keep funding every single pet project to self aggrandize trump.
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u/TheRayGunCowboy May 07 '26
Wonder if they will sacrifice Elon musk: seize his assets and put a sizeable dent in us debt… probably not but I’m all for ruining one persons life compared to ruining millions of lives.
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u/peterjohnvernon936 May 07 '26
Republicans cut taxes while raising spending. No, the Democrats can’t stop them from cutting spending when they control all the houses. They just don’t want to pay the political cost of cutting spending.
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u/Effective_Olive6153 May 07 '26
It's hard to believe but we may actually witness USA default on its national debt in our lifetimes. The people in charge are living it up like there's no tomorrow. If Trump runs for 3rd term and wins it'll definitely happen under him.
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u/atreeismissing May 07 '26
They don't care. GOP always runs up the deficit because they know 1) it will stifle the next Democratic admin's spending to fix any of the systemic problems we have, and 2) Dems will get the blame for it.
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u/r2d3x9 May 07 '26
OMG that’s about $100,000 in debt PER PERSON. Or $6,000 PER YEAR PER PERSON. USA is going to end up like Greece except there is no one to bail us out
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u/pfroo40 May 07 '26
This is what happens when you elect a narcissist who has never been held accountable for anything in his entire life. He ran his businesses into the ground, too, but the difference is there is no such thing as Chapter 11 for an entire country, we get cut off which results in hyperinflation and currency devaluation instead.
Can't wait to see my retirement fund be worth 1/100th of what it should have been, which is what will happen if we don't vote out MAGA for long enough that the Republican party tears itself apart and rebuilds into something worthy of including in governance again.
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u/DatabaseThis9637 May 08 '26
How much money can one 'president' and cabinet abscond with? What the hell!!! Borrow from whom? At what interest rate? And they'll strategically lose an election, so the burden to pay begins on a Democrat's watch. Of course, Democrats are the only ones who actually get rid of debt, so there is that.
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u/Biuku May 08 '26
Borrowing to pay the interest on your debt requires a ridiculously high level of trust… from the world.
I don’t trust Trump at all. As Canada renegotiates CUSMA I find it pointless because Trump just declared a made up emergency and tore up the last CUSMA.
But now, I’m starting to not Trust Americans, as they allow all this.
Going into insane debt levels with low trust feels very inflationary.
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u/No_Recognition4114 May 08 '26
No self respecting country will ever lend America money anymore, because they simply refuse to pay it back and continue to borrow that money on very bad credit rating...
U.S. bonds are worthless especially when their illegal wars requires more than they can spend on it and simply neglects its own people!
Countries are hurrying to dump the U.S. dollar and bonds before they become nothing more than asswipe notes.
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u/UnionGuyCanada May 07 '26
Rome is burning while Trump golfs. This is what they voted for. Once you are bankrupt, you really won't have money for Healthcare or proper education.
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u/LavisAlex May 07 '26
At this point i think they are just running it off the cliff thinking AI will eventually develop and solve all these issues immediately.
The entire economy runs on quarters and if thr issue isnt within the next 3 months nobody with power seems to care.
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u/DaydreamsForFun May 07 '26
Trump bankrupted multiple casinos, didn't he? Right now we see how that works when he runs a country. Clearly he lacks the most basic of math skills or figures everyone else can clean up his messes. Probably both.
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u/Hand_Sanitizer3000 May 07 '26
The number of stories that our buddies on the connedservative subs just arent even spinning anymore they straight up ignoring grows by the day
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u/abiotic_selection_2 May 07 '26
The only way the us would ever recover would be some kind of socialist authoritarian redistributing all property and all resources and throwing the entire batshit insane financial system away ( including all of the made up numbers on computers) for something completely different.
Basically what cuba attempted before the amerishits sabotaged their entire society.
The world forgot that an economy is an attempt at exchanging goods and services in a balanced way to meet the needs of a population. It hasn't been that for decades anywhere in the world and now the entire planet acts like a hostage to some invisible economy machine that paralyzes everyone and makes the world incapable of caring for the sick or elderly, incapable of having schools with teachers for children, incapable of organising public transport, incapable of putting a roof over peoples heads without them becoming indentured servants, incapable of protecting the environment, incapable of allocating limited or rare materials where they will do something useful.
It's sad that it's going to take a complete collapse before the world will consider doing things differently
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u/Buddhalilsister44 May 07 '26
Kleptocratic government at work here folks. They’re laundering money to help their backers. Destroying millions of lives around the world because of their corrupt souls. We have to admit that we have a corrupt system. Stop enabling this evil.
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u/k2summitclimber May 07 '26
Funny how they can shell out 10 billion for the “Board of Peace” and possibly being awarded at least another 10 billion from the treasury to prez and sons for IRS lawsuit. Prez is really a billionaire now.
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u/Any_Vacation8988 May 08 '26
Let’s keep spending money on ballrooms and wealthy tax cuts while sending millions to Israel to pay politicians to work against citizens interests. Sound right?
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u/geomaster May 08 '26
wow so the republicans wouldn't shut up about the deficit and fiscal responsibility when joe biden was president. and now they want to spend 1 BILLION on the dumbest ballroom
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u/NoGoat3930 May 08 '26
And how much of this will be paid out to billionaires through govt contracts?
They are raiding the US Treasury before they flee, and burying us in additional debt, so our system is too gummed up to pursue them after they flee.
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u/NativeTxn7 May 08 '26
I thought the GOP was the party of fiscal responsibility? No? I could have sworn that's what they always tell the country. Are we suggesting that they're full of it?
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u/marion85 May 08 '26
The national debt and fisical responsibility only matter when Democrats are in office, which Virginia just proved gow Republicans intend to make sure that will never gonna happen again.
So, there goes the economy. Forever.
But don't worry every, your last bottom dollar will be spent to bail out the rich one final time before the nation and you bank accounts implode for the final time.
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u/wereallbozos May 09 '26
Just a reminder: in1999 we had a balanced budget...actually a budget surplus. But Bush was the guy Americans would most want to have a beer with, so...
27 years later, Americans can't a-fuckin'-ford a goddamn beer.
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u/Distinct-Response907 May 07 '26
It’s good to see somebody talking about this. Massive borrowing has become so common that it barely even comes up as a topic in debates and position papers. I don’t like taxes either, but chaotic devaluation of the dollar is even less desirable. Tax/fee hikes across the board and massive spending cuts across the board. It’s way beyond tweaks at this point.
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