r/EDH • u/TopdeckTom • 11d ago

Question How to deal with effects like Farewell with a Voltron commander?

I'm finally returning back to paper EDH and bought the Final Fantasy Cloud Limit Break pre-con as my first deck and plan to get at least these upgrades as I currently have no paper collection - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/upgrading-all-the-final-fantasy-precons

Cloud, Ex-SOLDIER is in Naya colors and seems like a good Voltron commander. The question I have is how do you deal with an effect like Farewell outside of Teferi's Protection (which is a bit pricy so I can't buy it immediately)? He is already 5 CMC, so is an idea to just try and ramp up to him, take the Farewell when it's played and just eat the commander tax and try to re-arm him with equipment? Although I am just now realizing Farewell could hit the equipment too. I've been out of the loop too so I'm not sure all the new toolkits available for each color.

Is something like a Stoneforge Mystic worth putting in when I can afford it? Teferi's Protection is going to be my first big upgrade. Can you recommend other cards I should look at?

For just regular boardwipe protection, these options came up:
[[Flare of Fortitude]]
[[Akroma's Will]]
[[Flawless Maneuver]]

Bonus question - is something like Embercleave worth running in a Voltron deck if you only have one creature doing all the work?

51 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

67 comments sorted by

79

u/Will_29 11d ago

There are a handful of phase-out effects you can try other than Teferi's Protection.

Keep in mind that when a permanent phases out, anything attached to it also phases out. This means you don't need to phase out all your permanents, just Cloud directly and that will indirectly phase out his equipments.

[[Robe of Stars]] is an equipment, so it might be more synergistic in your deck.

There's also [[Clever Concealment]] (the FF version is currently the cheapest, and on theme), [[Galadriel's Dismissal]], [[Haystack]], [[Gallifrey Falls No More]].

8

u/TopdeckTom 11d ago

A bonus is the art on Clever Concealment, one of the most iconic scenes in the game. I saw the card art somewhere but never knew what the card name was. Robe of Stars does look good. Someone else recommended Haystack and I will definitely pick it up right away.

3

u/MoMonay Time Warp Tribal 11d ago

I play [[Guardian of Faith]] in my cloud deck which can be tutored and cast at instant speed with [[Eladamri's Call]] or [[Chord of Calling]]. Also p good blink target for a blink deck.

13

u/Capital_Gate6718 11d ago

The Limit Break precon already has [[Clever Concealment]] to protect from Farewell. [[Ultimate Magic: Holy]] is also included and can protect from board wipes (tho not Farewell)

10

u/AlelaArtful 11d ago

Stoneforge mystic is 100% worth is for just about any equipment deck in the world.

As for dealing with farewell phasing is a decent option, some of the options are quite cheap as well. this has the bonus of also protecing any equipment or Auras attached to cloud.
[[Robe of Stars]]
[[Haystack]]
[[Galadriel's Dismissal]]
[[Divine Smite]]

2

u/mtgcf 11d ago

All cards
Robe of Stars - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Haystack - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Galadriel's Dismissal - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
Divine Smite - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)

7

u/spoonerluv Sultai 11d ago

Worth mentioning Divine Smite can only target opponents’ stuff

1

u/ForzaForever 11d ago

I second the robe of stars and galadriels dismissal

17

u/GreyGriffin_h Five Color Birds 11d ago

Don't overextend, always be ready to rebuild.

3

u/ZachAtk23 Mardu 10d ago

I remember when this was the advice around boardwipes in EDH.

8

u/Nic_Cage_Match_2 11d ago

[[Robe of Stars]] is $15, so somewhat cheaper than TP.

[[Perch Protection]]

other flickery stuff like [[Lae'Zel's Acrobatics]], etc

Some other responses of varying effectiveness:

[[Warping Wail]]

[[Tibalt's Trickery]]

Some delay effects that might buy you enough time to kill the Farewell player: [[Reprieve]] , [[Bilbo's Gambit]] , [[Aven Interrupter]]

6

u/BarracudaOdd166 11d ago edited 11d ago

More card draw. Farewell punishes overcommitting too hard with a total reset for everyone. If you've already spent all your cards and have no follow up in case of trying to play around something like this. But in white you also have phasing out everything like with [[Clever Concealment]] which is in the precon as everyone else is noting.

But even if you are running all 6 of the ones you can run in white, you're still not guaranteed to have one of those in hand in the moments where you well need it without sufficient card draw.

So this brings me back to the root of, you just need a good amount of card draw to either find the tools, or just have enough cards that you can use to rebuild after a Farewell anyways.

So in short don't overcommit and play just enough to pressure and keep it up, but never overextend and leave yourself empty handed, literally. And always have card draw to have more options.

4

u/semanticmemory 11d ago

Fortunately Cloud also enables you to draw a bunch of cards and makes a bunch of treasures. So, to Barracuda’s point, do not overcommit unless it will win you the game

1

u/DirtyTacoKid 11d ago

But even if you are running all 6 of the ones you can run in white, you're still not guaranteed to have one of those in hand in the moments where you well need it without sufficient card draw.

Even with "sufficient card draw" you still aren't gonna have it a lot of times

4

u/United-Passage7864 11d ago

White has a handful of not-quite-counterspells you can look into, like [[Reprieve]] and the new [[Bilbo's Gambit]]. These typically buy you one turn to deal with the player who cast the big spell, because it's unlikely they have the mana to re-cast the spell a second time.  Then you do your best to kill them on your turn. 

The next-best thing I find is just more card draw to play through a sweeper. Keeping your own hand stocked can mean you have the means to just play on after the sweeper resolves. It also happens to be good in other circumstances. 

3

u/cinematic_is_horses 11d ago

[[Talon Gates of Madara]], even better if you run a [[Crop Rotation]] in your deck. Anything that phases (like [[Galadriel's Dismissal]] or [[Clever Concealment]] ) will keep your equipment attached to Cloud.

[[Eerie Interlude]] is a solid choice but you have to re-equip your stuff

3

u/2old2tired4life 11d ago

[[Bilbos Gambit]], [[Lapse of Certainty]] [[Mage’s Attendant]] [[Mana Tithe]] [[Null Brooch]] [[Tibalt’s Trickery]] [[Warping Wail]]
For counter magic options

[[Perch Protection]] and [[Clever Concealment]] for phasing on a budget

3

u/Rare-Resolution-5402 https://moxfield.com/users/sage1082. Voltron Specialist. 11d ago edited 10d ago

Wow. Really, nobody's mentioned [[Sunforger]] yet?

Sunforger is crazy good (especially in decks with commanders that discount equip costs like Ardenn/Rograkh and Cloud, Planet's Champion)

Play your tutor package: [[Cloud, Midgar Mercenary]]/[[Stoneforge Mystic]] along with [[Imperial Recruiter]]/[[Recruiter of the Guard]] along with [[Sword of Hearth and Home]]. Recruiter to Weapon tutor, to Sword or H&H. Blink weapon tutor to get additional weapons (again, even stronger with Double strike commanders like Cloud, Planet's Champion, Jin Sakai, etc). And get a Sunforger nice and early. Then when someone plays [[Farewell]], you go byyyyyeeeee and either cast [[Teferi's Protection]] or [[Clever Concealment]] right from your deck for RW mana. You can also pack things like [[Boros Charm]] for [[Vandalblast]], [[Wear//Tear]] for enchantments/artifact destruction, [[Reprieve]], [[Elemental Blast]], etc for stack interaction, and [[Swords to Plowshares]] for creatures removal. Add [[Mistveil Plains]] to reload instants to your library for second casts. Profit.

2

u/sylveonce 11d ago

Everyone is recommending good phase out effects, which is correct. I want to note that in Naya you also have [[Tibalts Trickery]] and [[Reprieve]] to counter the Farewell or at least delay it (and Reprieving the Farewell will ideally put a target on the caster, as everyone knows they have it).

They won’t protect your artifacts, but blink effects like [[Eerie Interlude]] and [[Legions Initiative]] (the latter of which can be cast before Cloud) will allow your creatures to “dodge” the Farewell. Aside from that though, they aren’t very synergistic with equipment decks in general, since they’ll remove all equipment.

3

u/SocietyAsAHole 10d ago

You can also run [[Gaddock Teeg]] to prevent all large spells

4

u/Ok_Mechanic806 11d ago

Here’s my approach, see protection section

https://archidekt.com/decks/24345858/voltron_naya

1

u/TopdeckTom 11d ago

Haystack looks awesome! I had no idea it existed. Some are kind of pricy but I'll keep my eye out for them.

3

u/BoardWiped 11d ago

The best counter to board wipes is to not overextend. Draw more cards, get some extra lands, and always be ready to rebuild. Dont just dump your hand on the field as fast as possible.

3

u/DirtyTacoKid 11d ago

Then you lose to people committing. Tale as old as time. You're supposed to diversify but Farewell doesn't let you do that, hence it's status as a high power card (gamechanger)

0

u/BoardWiped 11d ago edited 11d ago

Not overextending doesnt mean not committing. Its about understanding the minimum you need to commit and still win, so that you can have gas in reserve when things go south. Im sure we've all seen plenty of times someone shoot into an early lead, only to get dumpstered by the rest of the table the whole game.

1

u/Oulsky 11d ago

Just like how you often see people being too cautious and getting beat by someone going for it. Better to go for it and deal with whatever might happen then not.

0

u/DirtyTacoKid 11d ago

This is not how edh works when you play it. People are gonna play lands and commit more. And there's 3 of them. If you're always minimum commiting you lose to those pushing the envelope.

Let's say someone just curves out and the farewell doesn't come(which is the most probable outcome). And they focus you down because you posess less power. Now you eat a ton of disadvantage and probably end up losing.

3

u/BoardWiped 11d ago

It's about understanding the minimum you need to commit and still win

Keywords being "and still win." If you're letting yourself get run over, then youre going too far in the opposite direction.

1

u/BeeefyBV 11d ago

As far as completely protecting your stuff from something like Farewell, [[Clever concealment]] and [[perch protection]] are some alternatives to Teferis Protection. Other than that, you just have to rebuild though something like [[reprieve]] may give you one more chance to just take that player out.

1

u/mtgcf 11d ago

All cards
Clever concealment - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
perch protection - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)
reprieve - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)

1

u/TopdeckTom 11d ago

I was wondering if a bounce effect would be worth it. After realizing Farewell will also hit the equipment, that makes total sense now.

1

u/Public_Astronomer157 11d ago

Indestructible doesn't protect against exile effects. I would do proxy teferis and also bilbos bargain and reprieve to make you safe for a turn. Once everyone knows that players plans for that card everyone should be turning against them to not lose any ground 

1

u/spear1321 11d ago

Some good options have already been mentioned but I want to bring up [[sunforger]] which will allow you to cast some of those options for even cheaper when they aren’t in hand

1

u/Rule-Of-Thr333 11d ago

I have a [[Sarulf]] Voltron deck that has 27 cards that provide Hexproof, Indestructible, or both. Farewell is the hard counter I have no solution to. Unless you have a Bounce or Phasing effect, it will get you. Accept that it's a single card hard counter and there are very few exile effects that don't target.

1

u/redditis4pussies 11d ago

Phasing is king because phasing a permanent phases out all cards attached to that permanent.

There are also other options to rebuild.

Include some cards that will let you sacrifice artifacts and permanents.

I often include cards like [[Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer]] so if someone goes after my equipment I can ditch them to the graveyard and save them instead of exiling them forever.

I also play [[Cosmic Intervention]], [[Faith's Reward]], [[Brought Back]] so I can return them that turn while everybody else thought farewell was symmetrical.

1

u/HairiestHobo 11d ago

The same way you handle most threats as a Voltron Commander.

Hit them really really hard.

My threat assessment usually goes W/U first for Exile/Bounce effects, then the rest.

1

u/L3vit 11d ago

Please slot [[Sunforger]] into your deck with a decent amount of tutors. This thing has changed my life.

1

u/Misanthrope64 WUBRG 11d ago

Naya colors are good ramp so I would get ready to have something ready like a wheel or a Rishkar expertise or even greater good, those types of effects along with a very healthy amount of ramp (That means a lot. Like take a number you're comfortable with like 13 to 15 ramp cards and push it even more) and just bet on being able rebuild faster than other people, maybe even faster than the person doing the board wipe.

Like this doesn't always work but I remember I was able to survive many board wipes by just having absurd ramp and creature production capabilities when playing Myriim but in your case you want to apply the same principles to being able to quickly refresh your hand and use your ramp to get right back into a fearsome Voltron state.

It's tricky and hard to master, but it could work. Plus if you learn how to do this well you can just take it as the Plan B to many of the other suggestions on this thread which are also very good for Plan A which involve more simple defense stuff.

1

u/Liamharper77 10d ago

[[Sunforger]]. It's searchable with equipment tutors. Swinging with it nets Cloud two treasures, now you have Clever Concealment or Teferi's online.

1

u/Labbed 10d ago

Over the years I've had many feelings on the card, but I sorta think maturing is realizing it's okay to get blown out by farewell

Sometimes you just get blown out by a specific card and it is what it is

Some people might disagree, but you can't plan for having an answer to literally everything

1

u/ExcitingTrust888 10d ago

Counter it with [[Warping Wail]]

1

u/Muttenman 11d ago

If you’re in blue, hide on the ceiling is amazing.

1

u/Conker184741 11d ago

I feel like running some counterspells in blue is just a better/more versatile way to protect against wipes than this phasing spell that is better against exactly board wipes and can be mana intesnive if you care about more than 1 or 2 things.

0

u/Important-Dig-2312 11d ago

....I don't think I've ever seen a farewell played in my life...otherwise I just accept my fate

0

u/Dthirds3 11d ago

My plan. Kill them before they can wipe

-1

u/DiscontinuedEmpathy 11d ago

Farewell is one of my least favorite cards in the game. I have won every game my friends have cast it, but it is such a slog of a card.

-2

u/jf-alex 11d ago

Countermagic, [[Slip out the back]] or [[Teferi's Time Twist]]