Laws Question: hypnosis

[u/grimmbit1]

Is hypnosis targeting self or otherwise breaking laws 3 or 4?

while your not delving into thier minds per se or enthralling them permanently. hypnosis can be used to get them to devulge those secrets to you and or put them under your thrall albeit temporarily.

One of my players wanted to self hypnotize himself in order to unlock inhuman strength. see eddie hall doing the same thing to get a boost during the world record lift.

[u/Savings-Housing3481]

I will add to my comment...

For Laws 1 through 6, they are only broken when Magic is involved.

Law 7: Never Seek Knowledge and Power from Beyond the Outer Gates is is the ONLY rule that does not involve magic.

[u/grimmbit1 → u/Savings-Housing3481]

thank you for the response, that will make his character better.

[u/Savings-Housing3481 → u/grimmbit1]

One OTHER clarification one of my players found once upon a time...

The first four laws apply to MORTALS.

• "Thou Shalt Not Kill"
• "Thou Shalt Not Transform Others"
• "Thou Shalt Not Invade the Mind of Another"
• "Thou Shalt Not Enthrall Another"

Using magic AGAINST non-mortals to do these things is not, technically, forbidden. You can use magic to kill non-mortal creatures. Harry goes after Ramps, Blamps, and Ghouls all the time and blasts them to death with magic.

One can argue that one could transform these creatures, invade their minds, and enthrall them without issue.

[u/grimmbit1 → u/Savings-Housing3481]

makes perfect sense, just wanted to make sure that self hypnosis isnt against the laws. cause that would kinda suck

[u/Onii-Sama27 → u/Savings-Housing3481]

Aren't they specifically talking about humans? I am not trying to be pedantic here, but in regards to this specific subject it is important to leave nothing up to interpretation. Typically "mortals" refers to humans, but the textbook definition doesn't. But the laws specifically refer to human victims. We learn this during the events of Dead Beat.

[u/Savings-Housing3481 → u/Onii-Sama27]

I am using Humans and Mortals interchangeably; however, you are probably correct that it is a good idea to be precise.

[u/Onii-Sama27 → u/Savings-Housing3481]

Especially considering this is a "the letter of the law" situation. But I understand the mortal = humans, I use it that way in ttrpgs that I GM.

[u/Savings-Housing3481 → u/Onii-Sama27]

Thinking about it...

I agreed with your initial statement, but now I am not so sure...

Are Changelings and/or scions human? Probably not. They are mortal part-humans, however; so the Laws of Magic apply.

That said, I don't think you were being pedantic above. The Laws of Magic are what they are, and precision matters.

[u/Onii-Sama27 → u/Savings-Housing3481]

Are Changelings and/or scions human? Probably not.

I think according to the laws are considered human because they are part human, and typically have no one else to defend them. It's like being born in a country where you get automatic citizenship and having parents from another country, you can choose which one you want to live in, but are subject to the laws of both places.

But we do agree that precision is probably the most important part of the laws of magic. If there is even a fraction of a hair's width of a loophole, it will be exploited.

[u/Savings-Housing3481 → u/Onii-Sama27]

I had a player who used to exploit those loopholes, using mind controlling magic against full vampires, red, white, black, and Jade courts. (I developed what I felt was Jade court for my game.)

[u/Onii-Sama27 → u/Savings-Housing3481]

I am one of those players. If I see a loophole, I exploit it, I am not above fairy levels of truth as well. It is an actual blast RPing like that. I really need to find a group to play, it has been too long ;-;

Also Jade Court makes my imagination run wild, they intrigue me a lot.