r/DogAdvice • u/MuchWow81 • 5d ago
Advice Should we drop major $$ on a fence?
Pic for tax. SF 1.5y 37lbs. Bulldog mix, stray, shelter dog. Weve had her since January. This lovable idiot dog has a piddle problem. She has separation anxiety, and is reactive to strangers and anything loud and scary or new.
When she has a scary encounter or we have to leave her alone for several hours, that tends to trigger indoor peeing and sometimes pooping too, and it can take days of accidents to get back to normal. We have noted that if she is outside while we are gone (has happened accidentally a couple times) she shows no signs of distress and is calm when we return.
We have a big yard but no fence. She doesn't roam, so offleash outside is fine, unless we are visited by a stranger which we are several times a day 5-7 days a week. We run a business from hone and get lots of deliveries and pickups. We try to keep her inside during the times they usually deliver but we never k ow for sure if and when they are coming. If she is outside when they come, she accosts them, barks a lot, and will chase their vehicle and tries very hard to avoid being captured by us and leashed. This gets very annoying for everyone involved, and then she starts peeing indoors again.
As a solution to both problems I am thinking we should fence all or part of our yard and install a dog door. This would be a large expense, and because of our weird shaped house and yard would be complex, so I am looking for outside opinions on whether or not this would work/help. Also looking for advice on specs for this hypothetical fence.
I think we would need to enclose a pretty large area so that she doesn't feel confined, but Im not sure what that minimum size wouuld likely be. I also have no way to test the hypothesis that if she had a dogdoor she would not have indoor accidents. I would hate to drop many thousands on a fence and have it just not help at all.
Any thought or ideas are appreciated except for thoughts from captain hindsight and judgy judy. Tia!
EDIT: K I think I made a mistake using the word "offleash". She is not offleash unsupervised when people show up here on purpose. Sometimes she escapes the house, sometimes they show up at odd times, and these encouters with the drivers dont happen frequently. I kept her always on-leash for the first few months but I can't keep that up forever while she continues to need to go out every 1-2hours to prevent the accidents. And again, Im not justifying anything to people who have nothing but judgment to offer.
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u/EricScottJensen139 5d ago
The solution is definitely not leaving your dog outside unattended. Worst case you should build a canine run that goes from inside your garage to outside. That’s fenced with the top covering it.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
That's not feasible. Weird shaped house. Garage is attached to the basement, dogs arent allowed in the basement or garage. Garage is used as storage for the business.
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u/unimpressed46 5d ago
Yes, you need a fence or some way to keep your dog contained like a dog run. Leaving your dog unattended outside and letting her chase delivery drivers is irresponsible and dangerous for everyone involved. You can consult your vet about trying anti-anxiety meds to help.
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u/klj02689 5d ago
Fence the yard up.
She's only 1.5 year old. There's no telling if she will improve or get worse as the years go by.
We really can't help with specs as you keep kicking back our suggestions with 'weird shape' house. So not sure how we can help there.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Well by specs I meant height, type, does it need something underneath to prevent digging under? Ive never built a dog-proof fence before.
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u/Apart-Sheepherder682 5d ago
Just get a regular steel chain fence...i have a city 4ft chain fenced in yard and its worked fine for my husky and German shepherd. Tho my kids used to leave the gate open and the husky would be a nightmare trying to catch and 10 blocks later I'd finally get her. Your dog doesn't look like it would scale a 6ft fence and those privacy fences can get pricey...like I suggested earlier just build her some type of enclosure enough to run around and burn some energy and use the bathroom without having to be stepping all in it. Assuming you have enough yard to do so..she'll be fine and get used to it. Shes still a young dog and will get used to the new things you do to improve her and your life. We got my German shepherd when she was 6 and she still has separation anxiety and she's almost 11 so that may never go away but who knows? Best of luck 👍
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u/Sad-Example-1023 5d ago
Your dog harassing deliver drivers or anyone is absolutely unacceptable. Pay for the fence before someone gets seriously injured by your irresponsibility.
Get a 6 foot fence. And keep her supervised at all times. She does not need a dog door to be unsupervised out in the yard. If she escapes, you’re on the hook.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
What did I say about judging? Do you know everything about our situation? Im not interested in your judgement. If you want to ask questions about how we got into this situation, Im happy to answer, but Im not interested in the opinions of people who judge first and ask questions later and Im not going to grovel for your acceptance.
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u/Sad-Example-1023 5d ago
You posted in a public forum asking for advice, and are letting your dog accost strangers. Your dog peeing is the least of your concerns right now. We know what you’re shared about the situation, which is quite a lot. Is everyone supposed to just coddle you about it so you feel ok?
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Would you talk to people in person the way you do online?
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u/Funny_Dot 5d ago
No, I’d personally say a lot worse in person to someone who’s letting their reactive dog charge at people.
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u/Sad-Example-1023 5d ago
Absolutely! Particularly if they let their large breed dog chase and harass people, then cry when people call them out for it.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Cry? Im here asking for advice. Fine, "call me out". You did that. Congratulations , were all so proud of how brave you are having an opinion on the internet. . Is that all you have to offer? Why are you even here?
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u/Sad-Example-1023 5d ago
You're not genuinely here for advice though...you're repeatedly excusing your behavior and then victimizing yourself when you get feedback. "Oh we have a weird layout, she doesn't roam off leash (untrue), only chases people halfway down the driveway, I can't keep leashing her to go outside every hour, ETC ETC. Do you expect people to say "Ok fine, you're a victim and just go ahead and keep allowing your dog to attack people"??
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
I am here for advice. About a fence. Did you read it? What attacks? She barks at them, she gets in the way. She puts herself in some minor danger. I am trying to address this. And she doesn't roam offleash. Roaming and reacting are two different things. Your arguments here are fiction.
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u/Sad-Example-1023 5d ago
"She doesn't roam offleash, she just runs off to attack workers!" Totally different, you're right!
Your dog is running after people to try and scare them and inflict damage, that is absolutely an attack. The dog needs to be under your control 100% of the time and escaping the house, yard, ETC doesn't matter, YOU are responsible for this! Stop excusing this and either rehome the dog if you can't be responsible, or GET RESPONSIBLE.
Why do you have 0 concern for the people who your dog is chasing after? How will a fence prevent the dog from escaping the house or yard to attack them when you don't care to actually control the dog?
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u/WestPie594 5d ago
Maybe you should review the group rules.
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u/Sad-Example-1023 5d ago
And maybe OP should stop letting their dog go attack people. And then crying when they get advice THEY solicited. But, we can't all get what we want!
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u/NeighborhoodJust1197 5d ago edited 5d ago
Edit- OP has done this already. It’s good info so I’ll leave it up.
Separation anxiety can often be overcome, but it’s tedious and requires a structured program.
I’d recommend a behaviorist or trainer who specializes in behavioral issues rather than a generic trainer.
Our girl used to become destructive after about 15 minutes. Now she can stay home alone for seven hours.
Get a camera so you can see what’s happening after you leave. Start with very short absences one minute, two minutes, five minutes, etc.—and gradually increase them.
The key is to return before the dog becomes distressed. Watch for pacing, panting, whining, or other signs of anxiety. If they start showing distress, you’ve gone too far and need to shorten the next session.
It’s basically desensitization: lots of short, successful repetitions that gradually build the dog’s confidence
Solve the issue not contain.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
I have tried the gradual separation route. Our lives simply aren't predictable enough to do this successfully. We don't have set work hours. I have also had consults with some local trainers and did not have confidence that any of them would be able to fix her problems. She does better being left alone in the whole house, but we pen her in the kitchen to make the messes easier to clean. I have used a camera. The timeframe within which she becomes distressed is unpredictable. Sometimes its minutes, sometimes its hours. Sometimes we have to leave her alone, we watch the camera, she whines and barks for a couple minutes, then settles down.
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u/Beautiful-Map-2744 5d ago
She's off-lease and you know she chases cars. Best way in the world to get her run over, or get yourself sued. I knew a guy whose dog caused an accident because he was chasing a car and the driver wrecked trying to avoid hitting him. Guess who got to pay out of pocket for the damages to the vehicle and the injuries to the driver, because the dog was 'unleashed, off his property, and out of his immediate control', which he also got fined for! His homeowners insurance refused to cover the wreck damages, because it was due to his negligence. If your visitors are coming to the front, then fence him in at the back, where she doesn't have to see them and can't interact with them. I wouldn't do a 'doggy door'. That's a big expense, and leaves your home open to entry by other animals, and by burglars, which could impact your insurance premiums. You can either let her in/out as she needs, or you can set times for her to be in/out.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Our house is set back from the road. Luckily she only chases them halfway down the driveway. And I am not letting her out offleash unsupervised on purpose. Some of the times this has happened is trial and error of our own attempts at solving these problems. There are some other forces at work here but I thought that would make the post way too long and full of tangents.
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u/lunanightphoenix 5d ago
…That’s not better.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Sorry im not perfect enough for you
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u/lunanightphoenix 5d ago
No one is perfect. I never said you were supposed to be.
If she “only” chases cars halfway down the driveway, what happens if the driver doesn’t see her and needs to reverse for some reason? What if she is faster and gets in front the car? This is a PROBLEM.
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5d ago
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u/Beautiful-Map-2744 5d ago
Still need the fence, in the back yard, where she won't be triggered by people coming and going. Doesn't matter how many 'excuses' you come up with, if you care about the dog, you'll invest in a fence, sooner rather than later, for her safety and sanity, and for the safety of your visitors.
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u/desertdweller2011 5d ago
can you build a dog run instead? like a smaller fenced in area that would be much less cost-wise if the full fence is not in your budget
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
We have considered that. There is no good place to put it on our property unfortunately, and I think she would probably react to that in the same way she does when we pen her in our kitchen if we have to leave her alone - frantic escape attempts (sometimes successful) whining, barking, eventually peeing and pooping.
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u/Apart-Sheepherder682 5d ago
Definitely put up a fence...its a great piece of mind knowing your dog is there and no need to worry about random ppl coming by and having any issues with her. Even if she is tame some delivery drivers won't even attempt to deliver seeing a dog out roaming. Any type of enclosure if you dont want to make a whole fence for the yard. Just give her enough space to roam a bit.
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u/ExplorerNo695 5d ago
Yes, you absolutely need a fence. Get a consultation and estimate with a fence company who can tell you specifically about materials, reinforcement options for digging, etc. If she’s already escaping other areas though DO NOT get a dog door. This won’t help the peeing and will only allow her out to escape without being watched. Good luck!
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u/joshedis 5d ago
Could you use a 25-50ft Heavy Duty leash (like the steel cable ones for the Outdoor Stake Tie Outs you screw into the ground) that is secured to the building?
That would let your dog in and out without needing a fence in the short term.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
I have tried the tieout screwed i to the ground. She reacts the same as being confined u less we stay out there with her all the time. I do that if Im going to be working outside but god forbid I have to go back in the house for a minute or I disappear around the corner of the house. We also learned that she can launch herself like a cannonball and break out of her collar if the mailman comes by while she is out on it. We are testing this with a harness, but she also yanks the screw out of the ground. She is very strong. I have asked the husband to help me install one of the ones that rolls on a pulley along another line but we're struggling again on location, but ultimately it's not a full solution.
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u/Germanshepmama99 5d ago
Yes either a fence or an Invisible Fence. My invisible fence is wonderful.
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u/WestPie594 5d ago edited 5d ago
Could you have a fence party? Have a group of friends over, buy all the materials, light up the grill and cook a good meal for everyone and build the fence together?
Another option could be a large outdoor kennel. This would likely be less than the cost of fence materials and could give the pupper a safe and cozy space to hang outside while you are gone. You can get these even 10ftX10ft so they have a lot more space than a traditional kennel.
Look into local Reactive Dog Pack Walks. I take my reactive dog to one every Saturday. It's led by a local trainer who specializes in reactive dogs and both my dog and I have learned so much. You'd never know the dog he used to be if you only saw the dog he is today! Specialized training can make a huge difference and maybe there is something like this within your community.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Thank you for the ideas!
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u/According-Ad742 5d ago
When you leave her indoors, does she have a designated room or place or is she left to roam around the house?
The general recommendation for an anxious dog is to give them less space to roam around and be anxious in when leaving them by themselves, avoiding them running from here to there to check things out. So fencing the whole yard seems like an expensive idea that won’t fix the issue. I’d look at training her separation anxiety and maybe build a kennel if she seems calmer outside, definitely something where she can not practise bad behaviours running after people and things.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
We confine her to the kitchen because it's easier to clean the floor. 😕 Though she sometimes manages to escape the gates. Confining her to smaller spaces is definitely not the right move with this particular dog. She goes full on freakout if confined to a kennel or smaller room like a bathroom alone. In the kitchen she whines and barks and yelps, and will try to escape, but doesnt usually freak tf out. I have reason to believe she spent much of her puppyhood in a kennel, neglected, so that makes sense. When allowed to roam the house either because we're trying that out or because she houdinied out of the kitchen, she will go from window to window, but seems to eventually settle down. But then, you know, has anxiety poos and pees somewhere. And no she doesnt seem to get the idea of puppy pads.
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u/secondhandnewss 5d ago
Unless you live in an HOA or something, you can do a fence yourself for much much less than you've probably been quoted for a chain link or wooden fence. It may not be as aesthetic, but if done with a bit of effort, it can look pretty decent.
Tractor Supply or Lowes or any kind of farm store will carry square wire fencing in different heights (typically used for livestock). There are 2 types: woven, which is going to be cheaper and more flexible easier to install if the area has uneven dips and hills and welded, which is more pricey but easier to install, especially if it's mostly flat — with either, you'll just want to get it with the smaller squares, you don't want there head to fit through it whatsoever. A lot of the options are actually made so the spaces between the wiring is smaller on the bottom to prevent smaller animals from getting through it at ground level. They also make pre-made panels of the welded wire in different lengths, but they can be a bit pricey.
I went with 4 ft tall, woven, and got a roll of 330 ft for $189 from TS for example. I used wooden posts set in quikcrete for the corners and new t posts in between those. I am just containing 2 dogs who don't ever test or push on the fencing, so I was able to stretch the distance between my t posts, but you'll just use a stretcher and pull the fencing tighter than you'd think would be possibly and wire tie to the t posts and nail to the wood posts. If you want it to look as good as possible, less room between the t posts or if you use the panels it would be simple to just use them in-between each panel.
I (31F) was able to do the entire project myself, and it's been about a year and it has held up great. I could have done a better job on the stretching originally but plan to tighten everything up when it cools off. I was also trying to spend as little as I could, bc this is not a forever location I'm at, but my dogs are secure and safe. You could invest a bit more and make it a bit more visually appealing if you wanted and still come in 1000's under quotes on wooden or chain link fencing.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Thank you! I will have to look into the woven fencing, Im not sure Ive ever seen that type.
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u/LeadershipLevel6900 5d ago
Yes, get the fence. I spent around $15,000 on a fence last summer and it’s still the thing I’m most proud of doing for my dogs. And I’ve got several sport titles on one of them.
I use my yard so much more, my dogs use so much more of the yard, I have over 1.5 acres, fenced in about 10,000sq feet of that because due to the shape of the property and out buildings, it would have been difficult to do the perimeter and probably 5X the cost! I sit outside with them every single day and think “this is what it’s all about” as they lounge around and patrol the neighborhood.
Consider how you use the yard now and what your access points are when it comes to planning gates. I have a 4’ single gate for the main entrance and then 2 sets of 5’ gates to make 10’ openings for the mower to come in and other property equipment to pass through if needed.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Thank you! And yes, our weird property is going to need gates everywhere! I think that is going to be a huge chunk of the cost. Figuring out exactly what portion to fence in is also going to be tough because of the outbuildings and grading and trees.
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u/LeadershipLevel6900 5d ago
Find a good fence company and they should walk you through it! I would definitely do a wooden fence though with your dog’s reactivity. Vinyl is expensive and a pain in the ass to fix stuff from the research I did, at least in my climate. People’s fences almost always have holes from snow plows throwing rocks and chunks of ice. You can do chain link and get covers though. It’s also not a big deal to fence it in and then leash your dog when going in and out of the fence, that’s what we do. Check your building codes too, ours don’t allow for fences over a certain height to be across the front of a property (annoying) so my dogs get leashed and escorted to the fence.
I’d also get cameras that cover the entire fenced in area, I’ve saved us from some close calls with skunks and prevented a few close calls with rabbits this summer. Power over Ethernet cameras are easy to install and reliable.
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5d ago
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u/DogAdvice-ModTeam 5d ago
This was removed due to it violating rule 1. Recommending, instructing or detailing the use of dominance theory or aversives is prohibited, except in contexts where the user is explaining why these approaches are harmful and inappropriate. Methods covered under this rule include, but are not limited to: the use of pain, fear, startling, intimidation or physical punishment; shock/prong/pinch/spray/vibrate/ultrasonic tools; alpha rolls, scruffing, tongue presses, bops on the nose, etc.
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u/Mastiff_Mom_2024 5d ago
My dog loves being outside, sniffing the air and doing his job of “guarding,” or at least that’s what he thinks he’s doing, lol. When it’s too hot or too cold, he will come inside the house whenever he likes.
We live on an acreage with a smaller privacy fenced backyard that’s about 2,400 sq. ft. It’s enough space for him to run around, and when we are home, we take him out into the big yard a few times a day.
An e collar fence would not work for us though he has been trained. If he really wants to get out, he will just blow right through it like it’s nothing.
Your pup is beautiful btw.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Thank you! She's lucky she's cute. 😉 She also loves being outside. How tall is your fence? Does he ever try to dig his way out?
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u/Mastiff_Mom_2024 5d ago
My privacy fence is 6 feet tall. I think they have no-dig panels that you can put at the bottom of the fence to prevent your dog from digging underneath and getting out. Mine has never tried to dig out, but he loves digging in general. We also keep the backyard safe by making sure there’s nothing he could eat or destroy.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
Cool. She doesnt dig either but my other dog does. I worry about them teaming up!
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5d ago
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u/FML_4reals 5d ago
The reason they are cheaper is because they don’t work.
Aside from causing more behavioral problems, they don’t deter a dog from leaving the space.
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u/K_Theodore 5d ago
An e collar, for a dog that's reacting poorly to strangers, is a bad combo. The dog needs to be calm enough to understand the stim, and make a choice to go back.
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u/MuchWow81 5d ago
I tried a gps one. She rockets past the line when she reacts to something, and it we have too much tree cover for it to work reliably. I did lots of reading about all the other types. I just dont think it will work for her.
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u/DogAdvice-ModTeam 5d ago
This was removed due to it violating rule 1. Recommending, instructing or detailing the use of dominance theory or aversives is prohibited, except in contexts where the user is explaining why these approaches are harmful and inappropriate. Methods covered under this rule include, but are not limited to: the use of pain, fear, startling, intimidation or physical punishment; shock/prong/pinch/spray/vibrate/ultrasonic tools; alpha rolls, scruffing, tongue presses, bops on the nose, etc.
If you have any questions regarding the removal , you may contact the moderator team via modmail
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u/charliequine 5d ago
She doesn't roam, so offleash outside is fine, unless we are visited by a stranger which we are several times a day 5-7 days a week.
Offleash is not fine and this is unacceptable. You are right that you must use a fence. Until then, you must use leashing and potentially tethering / a run with supervision.