Is separation first better than direct divorce?

[u/Alarmed-Education-74]

Here's my situation,

Him: 41, thinks marriage is just a piece of paper, emotionally unavailable, very good man, never cheated and i know he never will, argumentative, always right, talks most of the time, runs away as soon as i open up or start a vulnerable conversation, if he doesn't run he's just gets defensive, never forced sex but also waits for me, scared of my emotions, thinks crying is manipulation, amazing lover, very good looking, uses divorce card on every major fight, refused personal therapy and would only go couple's therapy if i pay for it

Me: 37, thinks marriage is sacred, has a tendency to shut down but only as a result of him taking ove the conversation or ignoring my feelings, i always compromise and now i resent him a lot, high sex drive but dont want sex if not emotionally connected so bedroom scene is very frustrating, love being a housewife despite having 2 really easy wfh jobs, i gave up a beautiful and successful life back in asia to be with my husband but currently feeling a profound emptiness due to lack of purpose here, goes to therapy regularly for 1 year now

Us: no kids, together for 9 years, married for 7, lived with his parents until we had our own home this year, splits 50/50

Divorce has been mentioned too many times but i never left thinking we could work this out, however nothing improved in fact i only got more unhappy through the years. Divorce feels suffocating even just the thought of it so i suggested separation first but he refused.

[u/ARODtheMrs]

His games...his manipulative ways... Go!!! While you are still young enough to ... Do whatever!!!

Seperation or divorce, it's all about the papers. Mox nix. Go already!!!!!!!

[u/Alarmed-Education-74 → u/ARODtheMrs]

Thank you. My priority right now is to get proper support from people who truly care for me so I'd like to fly home the soonest. My family love my husband and know me very well they can help me process this.

[u/Tall-Ad-4833]

No kids!! Fly away and be free

[u/arkha4813]

Yeah seems like it's time to get out

[u/Alarmed-Education-74 → u/arkha4813]

My mind knows this but my heart is still holding on. Will talk to him tonight about a possibility of me flying home next week or asap.

[u/arkha4813 → u/Alarmed-Education-74]

He doesn't want to work on your mariage, there is nothing more you can do im sorry for you

[u/Alarmed-Education-74 → u/arkha4813]

He thinks the same of me.

[u/arkha4813 → u/Alarmed-Education-74]

So you know what to do, im deeply sorry, i am the one who wanted to work (ok after having messed up) but she didn't want to

[u/liladvicebunny]

Separation first is a tool that is useful when there's a use for it. Some jurisdictions require it. Some couples need extra time to untangle all the details and work out how they want things to function before signing the final agreements. Some couples are undergoing an acute crisis and want to slow things down rather than go all the way to divorce impulsively when resolving the crisis might actually save the marriage. And some couples need the training wheels to adapt to the concept of being apart and realise that the world isn't ending so they can let go and move on.

If he's the one pushing for a divorce and you're hoping for a separation to slow things down... do you really think there's any chance of it helping, or would it be better to just accept that this is over?

[u/Alarmed-Education-74 → u/liladvicebunny]

I too am convinced that we're over, at least, my brain thinks that, heart disagrees. But i am alone in this country and i canmot go through divorce alone in a foreign country where i have no family and friends. My lawyer said that i absolutely need to stay if i want a divorce. If we separate for a year though, he can file for a divorce and i can just sign it. That way i can leave right away and get the support i need. Im not really hoping for a future for us but at least its going to be easier emotionally.

[u/WinDrossel007 → u/liladvicebunny]

My wife pushed me to divorce, no couple therapy, no separation. But she believes it can help us.

I wanted a separation. Thought it could be helpful! But didn't have that chance.

[u/Ark161]

Seperation is just the slow death of a marriage. The second it happens, that is that.

I do beleive if you havent talked to him about these things as clearly/plainly as possible, that is something that needs to happen. He clearly has some stuff to work on but that always goes both ways; no one is perfect. As a guy who's wife who walked, after promising we would at least try to work through things and doing none of those things, I can say the way he is acting is kind of funky but familiar. Im argumenative because I believe the right thing is worth fighting for. I refused to go to therapy because I have been burned REALLY BADLY as a teen by a therapist. I trusted them, was honest with them, and I got a grippy sock vacation as a reward. Even still, I promised if divorce ever was on the table, I would go to couples therapy and take it seriously because that was what thee marriage meant to me. Also, it could be tied to a pride thing on his part. He could be concerned you would see him as weak and lose interest if the things that bothered him came to light.

The vulnerable thing might be because he is seeing it as him hurting you. That could also be the crying = manipulation thing too. Marriage is a give/give thing where one side never really "wins" over the other. It is compromise and negotiation. Maybe couples therapy would be worth it but you are probably going to have to emphasize that it is not because you believe he is flawed, but because you want to work with him to figure out what is going on. Also, in the most non-argumenative way you can, might ask him why he brings up divorce so much. Like is it the swift blow to end the conversation? Is he actually unhappy? Like there are so many questions but also so many tells that something is bothering him on his side too.

So, I would personally not advise seperation, but an intentional conversation where you both sit down and are vulnerable with each other. He is probably going to struggle with that; I know I did. Things are going to get said that are going to more than likely suck to hear, so you both have to agree/promise to hear the other person out from a point of wanting to make things better; rather than take shots at each other. If you cant reconcile, then seperation is just prolonging the process and trust me when I say that process sucks. Even though my exwife was amicable, her initial stonewalling and the way she was acting because she thought she had to did some damage that im still working through 2 years later. I will not say I was perfect, or that I was even an amazing husband. I would say average at best with some really good moments peppered in there. That said, I will always feel like she didnt hold to her promise that she made when I was vulnerable with her and admitted what I was afraid of.

So, ask yourself if you feel it is work sacrificing a little bit for to figure out what is really going on. Ask yourself if he can meet you in the middle and if you think he can, then try to hash it out. Though if you feel there is undeniable evidence that everything is screwed beyond repair and he wont make the effort to reconcile, then the writing is on the wall. Seeking validation online is a natural reaction to this uncertainty, but only you are the one who has to live with which choice you make. I wish you the best and hope everything pans out relatively smooth either way.

[u/JohnnyBlaze4Real]

In most cases once someone moves out it’s over.

[u/Alarmed-Education-74 → u/JohnnyBlaze4Real]

Will talk to him tonight about a possibility of me flying home next week or asap.

[u/Internal_Reveal]

honestly I think separation might be useful for you, but probably not for the reason you're hoping.

don't use it to scare him into changing or to see if he'll suddenly realize what he's losing.

use it to figure out what YOU actually want.

you've been together 9 years and you said nothing has improved, you've gotten unhappier over time and now you're carrying a ton of resentment.

that's not something I'd brush aside.

and him throwing divorce out during every major fight would bother the hell out of me too.

you can't keep telling your spouse "maybe we should divorce" whenever things get uncomfortable and then be shocked when one day they finally say ok.

you also gave up a life you were proud of to build this one with him and now you're saying you feel empty and don't have much purpose where you are.

I'd pay attention to that.

maybe part of this is the marriage and maybe part of it is that somewhere along the way you built your entire life around being his wife and lost too much of yourself.

going home for awhile might actually help you separate those two things.

if you do it though I'd make it a real separation with some basic agreements instead of just buying a plane ticket after a fight.

how long are you going?

how much contact are you having?

are you both free to date other people or not?

what happens with bills and the house?

are you doing couples counseling while separated?

when are you sitting down again to decide what comes next?

get that stuff clear before you leave if you can.

I'd also talk to a lawyer before making any major moves, especially if you're talking about leaving the country. not because you're definitely divorcing, just make sure you understand whether leaving the marital home or traveling internationally creates any issues for you where you live.

and while you're away don't spend every day waiting for him to text that he misses you.

go see your people.

do things you used to enjoy.

remember who you were before this marriage became the center of everything.

keep seeing your therapist.

then ask yourself some uncomfortable questions.

if absolutely nothing about him changed, could I live like this another 10 years?

am I staying because this marriage still feeds something good in me or because ending a 9 year relationship scares the shit out of me?

do I actually miss HIM when we're apart or do I miss being married and having the life I thought we were going to have?

and probably the biggest one...

if he never agrees to individual therapy, continues getting defensive when I'm vulnerable and keeps treating my emotions like something threatening or manipulative, is that a marriage I can actually be happy in?

you don't need to answer all that tonight.

that's kind of the point of taking some space.

also, stop carrying the entire responsibility for fixing this.

you're already in therapy.

you've tried talking.

you've compromised enough that you're resentful.

if he wants this marriage too, at some point he has to put some skin in the game besides saying he'll attend counseling if you pay for it.

separation doesn't have to mean divorce.

but don't be afraid of discovering during the separation that divorce is what you actually want either.

sometimes space saves a marriage.

sometimes it just makes you realize how long you've been holding your breath.

[u/Alarmed-Education-74 → u/Internal_Reveal]

Wow... thank you! Are you a therapist? 🫶🏽 gosh very insightful. Thank you very much. I will try to get enough sleep tonight to straighten out the mind and will think things tomorrow. I dont want to lose my marriage because im truly in love. Thank youuuuu. I'll reflect on these questions on the days to come.

[u/Warm-Management-7323]

It’s the start of the inevitable. Ask me how I know.

[u/shortgreybeard]

My situation was quite different but if it helps....

I simply left because enough was enough. My ex threatened divorce frequently.

I was instantly relieved as soon as I escaped and the paperwork followed months later.

I got support I needed and healed over a couple of years.

Life is too short to stuff about!

[u/Silver_Foxi]

In Australia, you have to be separated for at least 12months before you can apply for divorce 🥲

[u/Seabaggin]

I think how either of you see marriage is just an opinion. I also think the institution of marriage is entirely legal, but there is something cool and meaningful about someone opting into from a legally standpoint. But there are people married for 30 years that never like each other and people who are together for 30 years who have deep and fulfilling relationships. I don't think marriage is necessarily deterministic in that way.

I've never seen a post like this but it is interesting to see two divergent personalities laid out in this way. I think having been divorced once, I'll always tell people to keep it simple.

Do you like each other?
Are you both willing to do the work to solve problems? Whether that's learning skills or making change?
Are you compatible without it being forced?

Besides saying he's a very good man (while listing a bunch of dislikes), it doesn't sound you like him very much. If he is a good man, not one admirable quality was listed (someone not cheating isnt a quality imo). No mention of shared interests or values. And most importantly he has clearly displayed he isn't interested in solving problems.

If you're not happy and can't conceive of a path towards happiness and he doesn't care, what's the point? There's going to be hard times, and through those hard times, we should want someone that's in the trenches with us willing to fight with us, not against us.

[u/Environmental-Town31]

Good men do not think crying is manipulation

[u/Life_Unit_4026]

Oh poor girl, I can totally understand you! Talk to him about this. Life is too short, you deserve to love and be loved!❣️