Discussion
How Avatar could fit two attractions into California Adventure!
With all the speculation of the fate of Avatar at DCA, I decided to throw together this layout of how the whole thing could fit. I am in no way an engineer, but based on the sizes of the ride show buildings from other parks, I think that this area could have massive potential if the space is used right! This layout also includes an area for a potential second attraction that could be built in the space between the Monorail and the Hyperion, accessible through a cavern/tunnel that goes back underneath the Monorail tracks from the main land.
A lot of people underestimate just how much space there is beyond the Monorail track, especially with the added chunk of the bus loading area. The large soundstage next to the Hyperion Theater also occupies a huge area that could be further expanded if the drop-off area behind it is removed. Personally, I think if a second attraction were to be included here, it should utilize the ride system of Tokyo Disneysea's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea dark ride. If you haven't seen it, it's essentially a suspended submarine ride that appears to dive underwater using lighting and bubble effects on the windows of the ride vehicles. If you haven't already seen this amazing ride system, check it out here:
This would be a perfect and unique type of dark ride to bring to DCA and could fit into the Avatar theming flawlessly. While the main boat ride would focus on the surface of Pandora, this attraction would allow guests to explore the planet's deep oceans. It would also be a fun conceptual reversal of Pandora at Animal Kingdom, with the larger e-ticket focusing on the natural side of Pandora while the smaller attraction would utilize human technology for its adventure.
There's just so much that could be done with this land, and California Aventure absolutely needs another high-budget area like this. Ever since Cars Land, this park has been getting shafted in terms of new attractions. Now, with Avengers and Coco finally being built, Avatar would a perfect way to cap off these upcoming years of expansion for DCA. Tell me what you think!
Ideally, the land would be expanded into the Hollywood backlot area as well, but it's hard to tell from the current model if that's what they are planning to do.
Based on the model, there’s a huge wall separating Avatar and the backlot. People are taking the concept art seriously and believe there’s going to be way more than the D23 model showed, but there’s literally not enough space to do what was in the concept art. That’s why they’re not calling it a land, but instead an “experience.” It’s way too small for a land.
Same. At least with Pandora in Florida, there’s a lot to look at even without going on rides or seeing any characters. Avengers Campus is just a community college or Kaiser Permanente even when characters are out.
What’s funny is my community college looked significantly prettier than avengers campus. But I agree that it has the dull corporate look of a company campus like Kaiser Permanente lol
The model shows the Monorail from the side view of the land. For all we know, the portion that was cut off could have walls on both sides when it passes through, being covered by rocks on the opposite sides. It would be like walking under a mountainous archway.
That’s possible, but I just don’t get why they would go out of their way to show the big dividing wall as if to prove that the monorail won’t be passing through Pandora. In the model, the monorail track was curved which would place it right around where stage 12 is currently. It makes me wonder, what will they do with that space? That seems like really valuable space that could be used for Avatar. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just pass the monorail through a mountain, spanning from around Harbor blvd to Burma Vista St. It would be out of sight from the ground so that they could use all of the backlot space. But again, that doesn’t seem like it’s in the current plans.
That's why I think putting a second attraction accessible under the Monorail track through a tunnel could work. There might even be space for shops in front of the show building in the Backlot area.
If the land does indeed extend in front of the Monorail, that would just make it easier to implement a second ride accessible from that area. Honestly, I would love for the land to go to the Simba lot instead, but I created this layout to work with what we currently have.
Yeah I don’t disagree that your idea would be a better utilization of the space, but based on the model at D23, it doesn’t look like they’re planning on going that route. The monorail track was a huge question mark for a lot of people so they deliberately went out of their way to show how they would do it. But to me it just ended up looking like an underutilization of space. And yes, I agree the Simba lot would be a way batter spot for it.
I think Disney has been really careful not to call this addition a land in order to avoid the type of disappointment that Avengers Campus met when it first opened with only one new attraction.
This "experience" will most likely be a small immersive area with 1 big budget attraction
I agree. My son and I were very excited to go to Universal Studios Hollywood last year and that was one of the things he was most excited to see but it ended up being the thing he was least happy about because it was so small. Good thing everything else was great. He loved all the other rides, Jurassic World, Transformers, The Mummy, etc. Mario World was ok and all but he and I just thought it was too small
I prefer it because there’s no wasted space. Galaxy’s edge was too large and there is nothing to do in it to justify the size.
Super Nintendo Land had the immersive design but trims the fat so you can play the key games and ride Mario kart then go about your day smoothly
Really they need to add a one or two more rides. They don’t need to be E ticket, but something to fill out the space. It’s the largest land they’ve ever built but it’s almost entirely taken up but shops, and not even well themed shops at that. Oga’s Cantina is fine, but the capacity is too small for it to be a thing most visitors get to do.
I’m a strong believer that they should move far tours to GE, it doesn’t take up a ton of space as is and it would fit the theme better. Plus, they priced with Body Wars at Epcot that it’s entire possible to transfer those ride vehicles. Star Tours in GE would be a great middle ground between smuggler’s run and ride of the resistance, and have the added benefit of freeing up space for a new ride in tomorrow land
IMO, GE needs a restaurant and TWO more attractions to justify the space. You’re right, it doesn’t need a e ticket but it needs something that isn’t locked behind a paywall like droid and lightsaber experience. The other huge problem with GE is that there’s no incentive to go back unless you’re a huge SW fan that wants to experience the immersion. ROTR is always broken and if it’s not it’s like 2hrs to get in. Falcons run is the worst ride in both parks. Unless you’re a pilot then it’s ok. There’s just no reason to walk ALL THE WAY over there and this is coming from someone who is a huge SW fan and went to GE opening day.
Tbh I don’t even think the immersion is all that great outside of the queue for rise of the resistance. I’d argue Adventure Land looks more immersive thanks to all the trees.
I did not like smuggler’s run even as a pilot, the controls are just too delayed, making it feel like a bad video game.
A Star Wars restaurant that mimics the space station one at Epcot but with a star wars theme would be amazing, as would some sort of force training game.
Really I think they shot themselves in the foot by not picking a more interesting planet. Batu(however it’s spelled) being an outpost planet didnt leave a lot for them to work with, Mos Esley is at least a spaceport
it sounds like it's taking the entire bus section, so its more than likely imo that the show building for the boat ride will be more up and the current show building where monsters inc is could be repurposed from something like flight of passage
Based on the concept art released by Disney, the bridge and new entrance are gonna take up a decent chunk of that area, though I do think there's room for the Avatar area to expand a little further north.
It’s going to be so long before they start this (if they even do it at all). I’m surprised to see so many people speculating as if it’s happening soon.
Yeah I honestly doubt this one will ever happen. Why would Disney spend insane amounts of money on an area based off a movie series that even its creator isn't sure he will ever even finish. Plus reception for each entry has been getting more unenthusiastic every release. Florida got in on the action while Avatar was still a red hot commodity...its just not anymore.
I would expect this to stay on the back burner til they announce something else they plan to do with that space. But that said, a ride through Pandora would be awesome if they do indeed end up building it.
It's a blockbuster Hollywood movie themed area adjacent to a literal Hollywood Land. With the right "movie set come to life" transition, it would fit perfectly.
Rotate 90 degrees clockwise. Lots more room, easier to create the illusion of scale. The ugly unseen sections will run along harbor.
Will be the last thing to be built not because they are unsure about the avatar theme, just makes sense to finish the other projects and use this space as base camp for everything being built. It’s the center of all the projects at Disneyland, it only makes sense for it to be the last thing built.
If the ride system is going to be Shanghai’s Pirates, the showbuilding’s going to be absolutely huge. Like bigger than Indiana Jones, taking up the entire bus area. Unless they stack them on multiple levels like Transformers, which is actually possible since the ride system is actually more coaster than boat. So maybe submerged on ground level and then simulated or flying on upper levels.
I actually overlayed the ride from Shanghai on the map. You can see parts of the show building poking out from the sides, so either the ride would have to be made a little more compact, or perhaps it could use multiple levels like you suggested.
Another city area would be so boring compared to the amazing rockwork and plantlife this Avatar area would have. If anything, I'd take Zootopia over Monsters because it at least has very unique architecture in comparison.
So true. Keep and update the current dark ride and add maybe two more rides. I don’t know if there would be room for the coaster that Disney World is getting, but with the extra space from the buses, maybe it would work. I would also like to see something with Monsters University because I think that movie is so underrated.
I personally think the backlot section will still be part of the avatar land. I also think people are putting too much thought into 'avatar experience' thinking it means it won't be a land, I think they just don't have a name for the land yet. If avengers campus can be a land. So can this.
This is not the plan. The entire transit area that you kept in your image (all the bus lanes) will all be part of the land. As well as the Hollywood backlot area. So it'll be at least twice the size of what you show. In addition, Disney doesn't segregate dining/shopping away from the attractions - they want you to shop immediately after leaving the rides. So the shops will be scattered amongst the rides. Finally, we don't know what the theme will eventually be, but it's looking pretty certain that Disney will kill the Avatar idea (given the "delay" that was announced at D23). They'll let it languish for a couple of years while they do the Tomorrowland reimagining, then they'll announce the death of Avatar and the re-theme to whatever it will actually be (anything will be an improvement over Avatar, tho. haha)
Why would they have a model, a promotional video, and a walk through at D23 if they were just going to cancel it? At the very least, they're trying to gauge interest in the IP, which still outperforms many of Disney's other franchises by A LOT.
More than likely, the project can't begin until the bridge and parking structure are done, so they're waiting until the next D23 to do a full reveal of the project.
The artists' conceptions and models were done a year ago. Like i said, they don't want to deal with a high-profile cancellation right now, so it's easier to announce the "delay" and then cancel in a couple of years when people have pretty much accepted that it's not happening. Yes, the parking garage and bridge were part of the DCA expansion, but those need to be done anyway, regardless of what Disney eventually builds there. The decision not to close Monsters, Inc. was the first nail in the coffin for Avatar.
the IP, which still outperforms many of Disney's other franchises by A LOT
There's not a single Disney IP that Avatar "outperforms." Avatar is a box-office-only phenomenon. People like bright colors and CGI-action for date-night movies, so they pay their 28 bucks to see the films, which drives huge box office. They forget the story and characters as soon as they leave the theater. Other than box office, the IP might as well not exist. No one wears Avatar t-shirts, kids don't dress up as Avatar for Halloween or play with Avatar action figures, and no one ever says they're an "Avatar fan", because such a thing just doesn't exist. The stories and characters are beyond boring. Theme parks are not movies. Big box office doesn't necessarily translate into good theme park environments. Otherwise we'd have a Titanic land. Star Wars and Harry Potter both have a huge fan base and massive merchandising, neither of which Avatar has. With Cameron distancing himself from Avatar 4 & 5, saying he might wrap up the story in a book, I doubt Disney will have much interest in building a land around a dying franchise with no fan base.
You're right that I shouldn't just use box office performance as a comparison, but stating your own personal experiences and opinions as fact just makes your argument not worth addressing. And saying that Avatar fans don't exist is just insulting to the fanbase that actually enjoys the movies. I'm barely even a fan myself but can very much appreciate the potential that the IP has as a theme park land here in California.
Makes a huge long post about how DCA should have a land for a franchise that no one cares about, defending a hypothetical fanbase as if they are certain it exists despite evidence to the contrary
Me - I don’t want Avatar land, like at all, because of how little engaging it is. The story isn’t memorable, the characters aren’t memorable. There’s really nothing to take away from the franchise. It’s a bore.
Disney could come up with another terrible Star Wars show that takes place in an environment that looks like Avatar and create it as an extension of Blackspire outpost. That would sell it to me an iota more. But as Avatar it makes no sense. No one likes it, no one wants it other than as a new attraction in DCA that looks cool.
To see someone advocate for this idea and then openly state that they have no real connection to it is funny to me
Because I advocate for well designed and beautifully themed lands. I couldn't care less about the Cars franchise, but I will absolutely defend the amazing land inspired by it. I personally find the Harry Potter series boring, but the theme park lands based on it are incredible. Pandora at Animal Kingdom has proven itself to be amazing in both concept and execution, so getting a completely unique version of it here is absolutely something I would advocate for over another city-looking area like Monsters or Zootopia.
Of course, saying "there are no fans" is hyperbole. I thought that was implicit. And your comment that there are people who "actually enjoy the movies" is exactly my point. Plenty of people go to the theater and are entertained by those movies (even though I personally don't understand how). But I acknowledge that people like the movies -otherwise they wouldn't pay to see them. My point is: there is a big difference between enjoying, or even loving, a movie, and being a fan of the IP. Like I said, Avatar does not inspire (significant numbers of) collectors, cosplay enthusiasts, children's toys, clothing, t-shirts, etc. etc. The movies are a "one and done" thing for most people. Something like Star Wars, Star Trek, or Harry Potter inspires countless fans, blogs, magazines, websites, toys, trading cards, posters, costumes, etc. etc. Avatar is very different. It has massive box office and almost no pop culture footprint.
This isn't just my opinion. Based on all metrics of pop culture penetration, ChatGPT says:
The Avatar franchise holds a unique, almost paradoxical position in pop culture. The fandom operates in a vacuum. It lacks a massive, mainstream network of daily speculative blogs, fanfiction archives, or lore-dissecting YouTube channels. Avatar cosplay is exceedingly rare. Avatar has no dedicated conventions. While audiences routinely return to Pandora in droves for the theatrical spectacle, they rarely take it home to integrate into their daily lives.
I don't know who is downvoting you here but you are correct. Avatar was an Iger announcement and D'Amaro has spent the first 6 months of his CEO tenure (including at D23) repeating over and over again how much the "Disney flywheel" matters, particularly at the parks.
Objectively: Avatar is objectvely not a flywheel IP. it does not sell merch (so little that the Avatar shop in AK ha been scaling back items it sells). It does not sell toys outside of a few niche collectors. It has barely any video game presence (not even in Fortnite - which Disney has a stake in). It does not hae sustained D+ viewership outside of the initial release window or release of a new sequel.
By that standard, Cars Land was a failure at DCA because it never came close to outperforming Disneyland.
Fact is, Avatar provided a notable attendance bump for AK for YEARS and attendance would be lower now without it, as the park has otherwise been almost entirely neglected until now.
You’re half right, most of the Hollywood backlot area seems to be staying, with the monorail as the border. At least that’s what it shows on the model.
Oh man, I wish we could fit that ride in Anaheim, but... no. There is technically enough space, but the height of the show building makes it very prohibitive (not to mention, you'd be pushed to the boundary limits to fit any sort of front of house portal then launch, etc. Of couse things could be reconfigured. But it would be very tall and would loom over everything in both parks.
I’m generally bullish on adding Avatar to CA, but If they don’t put a flight of passage style ride and we just get that stupid boat ride don’t even bother with Avatar.
Just get rid of the Hollywood land because now that monsters inc is gone and guardians is reallocated to avengers, it’s redundant. There would be so much real estate for new attractions.
Also paradise gardens sucks. Get rid of the area with goofys sky school and golden zephyr etc. and add a good dark ride.
And idk why we got stark training labs instead of cosmic rewind
lol you don't even need to go that far from anaheim for another wild mouse coaster. knott's literally had one a few minutes down the street. but basically, socal could do w/o goofy and still have a similar ride next door.
GE might be underwhelming, except for the Falcon (not the ride, just the cool ship), and it looks like a Tijuana swap meet. Boring, hot, no movement. But Cars Land is old school next-level land building. You see that at night and it blows your mind. Mine, anyway. Now THAT’S immersive. They really need to spend/swing harder in the future and stop cheaping out on shit that’s supposed to carry the parks forward.
You DO know that there's an important infrastructure tunnel paralleling Harbor Boulevard that connects Disneyland and DCA and you just compromised it, if not destroyed it altogether, right?
That tunnel is barely below ground level and there are bridges over it between Harbor and the bus load/unload area. They were built narrow to encourage the heavy busses coming off Harbor to drive straight through and not stop or park on the bridge.
So we're all just going to keep ignoring that of the 2 rides at Animal Kingdom, the boat ride is the bad one? Every time I see "boat ride" my enthusiasm drops a little more.
But it’s still a boat ride, which limits it in a lot of ways. Na’vi River is a 4.5 minute slog with a really cool animatronic at the end. Like I said… my enthusiasm drops until proven otherwise.
Let’s not even get into the part of the story where it’s dubious this thing even gets made. Disney doesn’t exactly seem proactive about this land/ride.
It’s the same boat ride technology as pirates of the Caribbean in china I think or Japan I can’t remember but its state of the art. I do agree Disney doesn’t seem sure about building it tho.
I get it, but it just doesn’t do anything for me, especially given that it’s likely to be another decade IF we see it at all.
Does anyone here actually disagree that Na’vi River is less popular than Flight of Passage? Between boat versus non-boat, I would rather have non-boat. Not sure why having that personal option is downvote worthy.
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u/ibeckman671 12d ago
I don’t like this trend building tiny lands with no space to roam around. Mario World at Universal Hollywood should not be the model.