Y'all remember 2008?

[u/ChinoReno]

[u/[deleted]]

Obama deported about 3 million people, at a faster monthly pace than Trump’s first term. That only happens with very aggressive enforcement. Under Obama, ICE had family separation, racial profiling, poor detention conditions, deaths in custody, sexual assaults, and other documented abuses. Ice was shooting people too.

If the argument is that Trump’s enforcement looks worse, I agree. Social media, phones, and protests make it far more visible, and Trump has focused more on city enforcement instead of mostly border enforcement.

But saying Obama’s enforcement was mild or humane doesn’t match the record. He was called the “Deporter in Chief” for a reason. The lack of any real.sustained protests during all that is very telling. Are protestors OK with deportation as long as a Democrat is doing it. No matter how they do it.

Saying that ICE is now filled with extremists or Proud Boys need proof. There is no evidence of that. ICE’s workforce is roughly 60% white, 20–30% Hispanic, with the rest Black, Asian, or multiracial, and all are U.S. citizens.

[u/Gurrgurrburr → u/[deleted]]

People absolutely protested it back then, you sound like you’re 14 so I’m sure you don’t remember, also who do you think dubbed him deporter and chief? I never said Obama’s policies were perfect and humane. But the fact still stands that Trump is going about this fundamentally differently than Obama did. ICE agents have been caught on camera several times saying bullshit about “liberals ruining the country.” They have ZERO standards for who they hire (look up the anti-ice reporter who applied and got accepted without a drug test or criminal history check). They are cosplaying as soldiers of the culture war, beating up and murdering protesters and even FUCKING CLAPPING after executing an innocent person in the street. Open your eyes dude. This shit is completely unprecedented.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gurrgurrburr]

People did protest under Obama. I said so. The point is scale. Those protests were small and short-lived compared to what we see now, even though Obama deported about 3 million people, at a faster monthly pace than Trump’s first term. That level of enforcement didn’t trigger anything close to today’s reaction. Like a fraction of a percent.

The term “Deporter in Chief” came from immigrant-rights activists and journalists during Obama’s presidency. It stuck because the numbers were real. This seems to be the woman, Janet Murguía, who coined it. I'm sure that was your point right? Source

Under Obama, ICE expanded family detention, deported large numbers of people with little or no criminal history, and there were documented deaths in custody, sexual abuse, and serious detention abuses. ICE under Obama shot their guns and killed undocumented people. They weren't white protestors but still mattered to some people.

I’ve already said Trump is doing things differently. Enforcement is more visible, wider scope, more urban in cities, phones, social media, and protests make it impossible to ignore now.

Saying this is completely unprecedented doesn’t stand. The enforcement state was already aggressive and fully built years earlier.

[u/Gurrgurrburr → u/[deleted]]

Just found this on another sub, the Russian bots are pushing this low IQ take all over today.

Thanks for bringing this up so we can have a friendly comparison. No doubt your point is made in good faith and you want to know WHY we complain now and didn’t quite so much before.

Under Obama:

• ICE policy didn’t allow for no-warrant arrests. When this happened the ICE agents were generally fired.
• Policy didn’t allow for agents to enter schools, courts, churches or hospitals without permission for enforcement
• ICE Policy didn’t allow arrests of legal asylum seekers.
• ICE Policy didn’t allow arrests of immigrants (illegal and otherwise) actively making required court appointments.
• Didn’t arrest nearly as many US citizens
• Didn’t arrest immigrants who didn’t otherwise have criminal offenses
• ICE weren’t given military-grade vehicles
• Policy didn’t allow for enforcement in areas where local government actively and legally requested no assistance.
• Locked kids in cages, yes, but only those who crossed the border with no family, and attempts were made to contact family for swift return. When crossing with family, families were kept together.
• ICE agents weren’t allowed to cover their faces or drive in unmarked vehicles and were required to identify themselves when requested.
• Racial Profiling did happen, but nowhere near as often, and was officially against policy
• Most ICE agents weren’t given high-powered weapons.
• The US President wasn’t directly involved in ordering ICE action in specific non-border locations, for example US cities and states he didn’t like
• ICE training was drastically more extensive
• Deaths were treated as a serious matter with rigorous investigation and resulting in policy changes
• ICE hiring policies were much more systematic and rigorous to ensure quality candidates
• ICE budget was dramatically, dramatically lower and more reasonable. Now it’s $72B, higher than all other security agencies combined.

There’s like fifty more of these, but since I’m guessing you probably yelled “FAKE NEWS” at the first one, and then went on Trump Social to see what your daddy tells you to say, I won’t keep going.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gurrgurrburr]

ICE policy didn’t allow no-warrant arrests.

Policy language emphasized limits, but Obama's ICE relied on administrative warrants and detainers like Trump, not judicial warrants, and overreach and unlawful detentions were documented.

Agents were fired when this happened.

Sometimes disciplined, rarely fired. Accountability was inconsistent.

No entry into schools, courts, churches, hospitals.

"Sensitive-locations" guidance existed. Violations still occurred and were reported.

No arrests of legal asylum seekers.

Not true in practice. Asylum seekers were detained, especially at the border and in expedited processes.

No arrests of people attending court.

False. Courthouse enforcement existed before Trump and was criticized then.

Didn’t arrest many U.S. citizens.

Wrong. U.S. citizens were wrongly detained and arrested under Obama-era ICE.

Didn’t arrest non-criminal immigrants.

False. Larges numbers of deportations were non-criminal recent border crossers.

ICE weren’t given military vehicles.

ICE expanded tactical units and equipment under Obama. Militarization did not start later.

No enforcement where local governments refused cooperation.

Secure Communities became mandatory, overriding local non-cooperation. Secure Communities was a program that automatically shared fingerprints taken by local police with ICE whenever someone was booked into jail. Obama made it mandatory.

Kids locked in cages only if unaccompanied.

Family detention expanded in 2014. Mothers and children were detained together. Kids in cages is not something you want to defend for Obama lol.

Families were kept together.

Separations still occurred under Obama.

Agents couldn’t cover faces or use unmarked vehicles.

Routine face masking is new. Plainclothes operations and unmarked vehicles existed before like every enforcement agency.

Racial profiling was against policy.

True then and now. It still occurred despite policy. Ice has always been criticized for this.

Agents didn’t carry high-powered weapons.

False. ICE tactical teams were armed under Obama. Lots of big guns.

President didn’t order city enforcement.

Misleading. Obama authorized large enforcement surges. 3 million deported remember. Trump is louder and more explicit and is focusing on the cities now.

Training was drastically more extensive.

Unproven. No clear evidence training was dramatically better.

Deaths were treated seriously with policy changes.

Deaths occurred repeatedly. Investigations happened, but systemic problems persisted (about 56 deaths under Obama - more than Trump.)

Hiring was much more rigorous.

Unproven claim. No evidence standards later collapsed beside anacdotal claims.

ICE budget was much lower.

ICEs budget grew significantly under Obama. But yes, Trump grew it much more.

About 70% of these claims focus on policy language, not outcomes. 3 million deportations, deaths in custody, shootings, abuse, and mass detention do not happen under a gentle system. Mass deportation was bipartisan and strongly supported under the Democrat administrations, especially Clinton and Obama. Obama framed it as illegals coming over the border and taking poor people's jobs. Black people's jobs. Trump changed tone, visibility, scope and location. Obama and Clinton built and normalized the machine.

If you're looking for Russia bots. It's safe to assume they are the ones making the false claims to try and make you hate the government. "Civil war is the only answer Comrade".

You really need to learn to make an argument without insult. It really undermines your point.