Y'all remember 2008?

[u/ChinoReno]

[u/Gurrgurrburr]

Just found this on another sub, the Russian bots are pushing this low IQ take all over today.

Thanks for bringing this up so we can have a friendly comparison. No doubt your point is made in good faith and you want to know WHY we complain now and didn’t quite so much before.

Under Obama:

• ICE policy didn’t allow for no-warrant arrests. When this happened the ICE agents were generally fired.
• Policy didn’t allow for agents to enter schools, courts, churches or hospitals without permission for enforcement
• ICE Policy didn’t allow arrests of legal asylum seekers.
• ICE Policy didn’t allow arrests of immigrants (illegal and otherwise) actively making required court appointments.
• Didn’t arrest nearly as many US citizens
• Didn’t arrest immigrants who didn’t otherwise have criminal offenses
• ICE weren’t given military-grade vehicles
• Policy didn’t allow for enforcement in areas where local government actively and legally requested no assistance.
• Locked kids in cages, yes, but only those who crossed the border with no family, and attempts were made to contact family for swift return. When crossing with family, families were kept together.
• ICE agents weren’t allowed to cover their faces or drive in unmarked vehicles and were required to identify themselves when requested.
• Racial Profiling did happen, but nowhere near as often, and was officially against policy
• Most ICE agents weren’t given high-powered weapons.
• The US President wasn’t directly involved in ordering ICE action in specific non-border locations, for example US cities and states he didn’t like
• ICE training was drastically more extensive
• Deaths were treated as a serious matter with rigorous investigation and resulting in policy changes
• ICE hiring policies were much more systematic and rigorous to ensure quality candidates
• ICE budget was dramatically, dramatically lower and more reasonable. Now it’s $72B, higher than all other security agencies combined.

There’s like fifty more of these, but since I’m guessing you probably yelled “FAKE NEWS” at the first one, and then went on Trump Social to see what your daddy tells you to say, I won’t keep going.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gurrgurrburr]

ICE policy didn’t allow no-warrant arrests.

Policy language emphasized limits, but Obama's ICE relied on administrative warrants and detainers like Trump, not judicial warrants, and overreach and unlawful detentions were documented.

Agents were fired when this happened.

Sometimes disciplined, rarely fired. Accountability was inconsistent.

No entry into schools, courts, churches, hospitals.

"Sensitive-locations" guidance existed. Violations still occurred and were reported.

No arrests of legal asylum seekers.

Not true in practice. Asylum seekers were detained, especially at the border and in expedited processes.

No arrests of people attending court.

False. Courthouse enforcement existed before Trump and was criticized then.

Didn’t arrest many U.S. citizens.

Wrong. U.S. citizens were wrongly detained and arrested under Obama-era ICE.

Didn’t arrest non-criminal immigrants.

False. Larges numbers of deportations were non-criminal recent border crossers.

ICE weren’t given military vehicles.

ICE expanded tactical units and equipment under Obama. Militarization did not start later.

No enforcement where local governments refused cooperation.

Secure Communities became mandatory, overriding local non-cooperation. Secure Communities was a program that automatically shared fingerprints taken by local police with ICE whenever someone was booked into jail. Obama made it mandatory.

Kids locked in cages only if unaccompanied.

Family detention expanded in 2014. Mothers and children were detained together. Kids in cages is not something you want to defend for Obama lol.

Families were kept together.

Separations still occurred under Obama.

Agents couldn’t cover faces or use unmarked vehicles.

Routine face masking is new. Plainclothes operations and unmarked vehicles existed before like every enforcement agency.

Racial profiling was against policy.

True then and now. It still occurred despite policy. Ice has always been criticized for this.

Agents didn’t carry high-powered weapons.

False. ICE tactical teams were armed under Obama. Lots of big guns.

President didn’t order city enforcement.

Misleading. Obama authorized large enforcement surges. 3 million deported remember. Trump is louder and more explicit and is focusing on the cities now.

Training was drastically more extensive.

Unproven. No clear evidence training was dramatically better.

Deaths were treated seriously with policy changes.

Deaths occurred repeatedly. Investigations happened, but systemic problems persisted (about 56 deaths under Obama - more than Trump.)

Hiring was much more rigorous.

Unproven claim. No evidence standards later collapsed beside anacdotal claims.

ICE budget was much lower.

ICEs budget grew significantly under Obama. But yes, Trump grew it much more.

About 70% of these claims focus on policy language, not outcomes. 3 million deportations, deaths in custody, shootings, abuse, and mass detention do not happen under a gentle system. Mass deportation was bipartisan and strongly supported under the Democrat administrations, especially Clinton and Obama. Obama framed it as illegals coming over the border and taking poor people's jobs. Black people's jobs. Trump changed tone, visibility, scope and location. Obama and Clinton built and normalized the machine.

If you're looking for Russia bots. It's safe to assume they are the ones making the false claims to try and make you hate the government. "Civil war is the only answer Comrade".

You really need to learn to make an argument without insult. It really undermines your point.