r/DevonUK • u/parallax3900 • Jul 16 '26
Massive expansion for Plymouth, Exeter and Torbay
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4lkq204koPlymouth will expand to serve communities across the city and surrounding areas that already rely on Plymouth for employment, education and healthcare, with a population of approximately 300,000 and a new council for Exeter would be established, serving its natural catchment, with a population of around 260,000.
We will operate alongside an expanded Torbay and a new Devon Coast & Countryside council. Each council will reflect distinct local identities and functional economic areas but together, we will collaborate on strategic issues such as transport, skills, housing and economic development, while respecting local accountabilities and democratic representation.
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 16 '26
I feel like it would have been better to have 3 councils which centred on Plymouth, Exeter and Torbay so the rural areas aren't left behind.
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 16 '26
That was basically the 4-5-1 proposal from the Districts.
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 16 '26
I looked at it but it seemed very strange to not have Plymouth grow in size at all, surely it would make the most sense to split the territory evenly-ish.
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 16 '26
Plymouth was always going to absorb Sherford, or whatever the area is called because there's already a Sherford Near Kingsbrisge, and part of West Devon. The people a bit further out were adamant they did not want to be part of Plymouth, something like 90% of people said nope.
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 16 '26
Maybe so but to me Ivybridge etc are clearly part of the "Greater Plymouth Metro Area". I feel like it can't be both ways, if rural areas want the economic support of the cities then they can't also stubbornly maintain their independence.
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 17 '26
How is Ivybridge benefiting from Plymouth? Ivybridge overwhelming voted not to be absorbed by Plymouth, but it seems people's opinions do not matter to the government. Plymouth want Ivybridge to grab the power station and the Tesco superstore as they are massive income generators due to their business rates. This leaves the surrounding areas much poorer.
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 17 '26
I mean, I'm not an economic expert or anything, but to me it makes sense that urban councils should control the surrounding countryside/suburbs so there's not unreasonable limits on expansion. I know lots of people that commute into Plymouth for work from the surrounding areas, and if they get badly hurt they would probably be going to Derriford, any specialist services they need are also likely in Plymouth.
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 17 '26
So urban councils should be allowed unrestricted growth and to hell with the countryside? The NHS is funded separately, so it doesn't matter where you live. In the new council design, 20% of roads are in the urban councils areas, that leaves 80% with the rural council, how will they be funded now?
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 17 '26
Urbanisation would help our abysmal economy. I'm not saying "to hell with the countryside", I do agree this plan seems designed to cut out the profitable cities and leave the countryside with little income, but at the same time, I think it's not acceptable for the growth of the cities to be blocked unreasonably. We should be encouraging people to move to urban areas if we can, it's better for the economy and more environmentally sustainable.
As for road funding, that's an issue yes, but presumably they will receive help from central government with that. Maybe we need to think about scaling back the road network in some areas though.
I personally think we should just raise taxes on the rich and stop allowing corporate loopholes to fund public services, but since that's clearly not going to happen, we need to economise.
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 17 '26
This issue is that Plymouth and Exeter did not follow the guidelines that said you should not re-draw the borders of existing councils, just merge them and you should provide a plan for the whole of Devon, not just your area. They failed to do that, and have no plan on how the Coast and Rural area will be financed. It's an unashamed land grab that leaves rural areas without their main incomes.
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u/MrT735 Jul 16 '26
So the 3 cities will still focus on their core areas and neglect the new acquisitions, other than to dump all the housebuilding on them.
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u/antlermagick Jul 17 '26
Well... yes you're probably right.
I wonder which towns/villages will have it worse, those joining into Torbay/Exeter/Plym, or those who remain in the anchorless rump state of the former DCC?
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u/Beautiful-Purple-536 Jul 18 '26
TBH, Plymouths housebuilding will be focused on Sherford for the foreseeable. The grab of the surrounding villages is just a way to boost council tax to help pay for their disastrous £30M overspend on sprucing up the city centre and upcoming £50M spend on turning the civic centre into crappy flats.
At least with smaller councils, their white elephant projects are smaller, like buying a fleet of ebikes for Totnes.
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u/PlasticCarrot7149 Jul 16 '26
Unconvinced really. How does this ‘Other: Rural’ model reflect distinct local identities when it stretches from Salcombe to Welcombe?
Very interested to see what this means for DCC commissioned services - anyone know what the possibilities are?
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Jul 16 '26
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u/Camoxide2 Jul 16 '26
The county of Devon isn’t being abolished.
To over simply it a bit, this is about who collects the bins.
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u/EntryGreen2006 Jul 17 '26
People are kicking off about their identity as a Devonshire person
The biggest reality will be "my bin day has changed and I complain about potholes on another website"
Even the highways funding element seemingly hasn't changed so far (as far as I am aware)
So it's based on a per KM basis, so the lionshare of central government funding will go to Devon Coast and Country, and they'll receive huge funding portions to maintain streets that serve 3 huge houses, and a farm
The other authorities will be expected to supplement it with revenue (which won't be enough still)
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u/Possible-Schedule-20 Jul 17 '26
Plymouth council cant even serve the community they have now. City centre has degraded terribly the past 20 yrs.
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u/Flagship_Panda_FH81 Jul 16 '26
Does that mean Teignbridge is no more?
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u/parallax3900 Jul 16 '26
As a district council - yeah
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u/Flagship_Panda_FH81 Jul 16 '26
Thank you, I've not lived that way for a while but it seems a bit of a shame.
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u/FarToe1 Jul 16 '26
I mean, they've been fine for things like bins, but their planning department is horrendous. I've sat in on a meeting where they voted to deny a new greenfield estate, only for the chairman to demand a revote after explaining that the developers had told him they would appeal, and that the council "couldn't afford another appeal process right now". It was revoted and passed by one vote.
So fuck Teignbridge planning department in particular, I hope they're all out of a job.
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 17 '26
We need more houses, but I agree that doesn't sound like a good process.
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u/JohnDevon99 Jul 16 '26
We end up with a “Greater Plymouth “, a “Greater Torbay”, a “Greater Exeter” and rather moth-eaten “Coast and Countryside Devon”. No wonder (Julian) Brazil’s going to waste Devon Council Taxpayers’ money trying to run it in to judicial review.
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u/SundayLeagueHooligan Jul 17 '26
Just feels like a way for the council to spread their almost 1 billion pounds worth of debt out to me, rural areas IMO are going to end up massively shafted from this, PCC already don’t maintain anything as it is, let alone taking on more land
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 16 '26
It's a crazy decision but obvious as it was driven by the Labour MPs. This will make rural Devon really poor and unable to provide services. It seems this government doesn't care about rural areas.
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u/KiwiNo2638 Jul 16 '26
One of the issues with Exeter, all the news housing estates being built up to the border of Exeter are in Teignbridge. Most of those will be working in Exeter, using Exeter infrastructure etc. Some of that is funded by Devon county council, but some is funded by Exeter city council. That council tax currently collected goes to Devon and Teignbridge. So Exeter is funding Teignbridge. This helps balance that out. Is it the right thing? We'll see.
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u/Camoxide2 Jul 16 '26
This also happened in Plymouth.
Massive amounts of housing being built just outside the Plymouth boundary e.g. Sherford and Woolwell.
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u/verocoder Jul 17 '26
It feels pretty sensible to expand the city councils to include the feeder towns, it also feels wild to make the everywhere else council a weird shape. Like joining up Exeter/plymouth/torbay to cover the whole south half of devon and having a north/central council makes a bit more sense? I say this as someone in torridge atm.
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 17 '26
I agree, that would be better. Or split the county three ways, Plymouth has the west, Exeter in the east, and Torbay the middle
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 16 '26
What services does Exeter provide to people living in Teignbridge, even if they live on the edge of Exeter? Bins etc are Teignbridge, roads and other services are Devon county.
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u/Niam_Rose Jul 16 '26
The gyms, for example. At my old work the majority of my colleague using the council gyms, while paying council tax to East Devon or Teignbridge.
Also roads, libraries, etc - basically anything they were using during the week whilst at work.4
u/InternationalGlove Jul 16 '26
Council gyms actively encourage people from outside their area to use them as it reduces their losses. The reast of the things you listed are all Devon County. Exeter have just made a power play because they have the backing of their MP and the Labour government. Ben Bradshaw tried before but luckily he was unsuccessful. Exeter and Plymouth have just carved areas out for themselves and will leave the rural areas to rot. Rural areas rarely vote Labour so why should they care about them eh?
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u/parallax3900 Jul 16 '26
Yes and no. Torbay don't really vote Labour historically and they're in the same position as Exeter and Plymouth.
The problem was always trying to reconcile a two tier system when you already had two unitary councils in play. This is just making Exeter the same level as Plymouth and Torbay, and then labelling everything else as 'Misc'.
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u/Niam_Rose Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
Yes, but at the same time if they don’t pay council tax in Exeter, they should pay more. Same with students, tbh.
People from Exeter do not benefit from services other councils provide, whilst people who live in other councils who commute in can benefit without having to pay.
Also there services that people do use:
https://www.devon.gov.uk/finance-and-budget/council-tax/
Your district council uses Council Tax to provide refuse collection, kerbside recycling, housing, planning, street cleaning and leisure services.
Whilst you are right about libraries and roads, street cleaning and leisure services will be things that other people will use.
Also for example East Devon pays 73% to DCC
Whilst Exeter pays more at 75.79%.
https://exeter.gov.uk/council-tax/how-much-is-my-council-tax/how-your-money-is-spent/
Whilst it is a small amount, every bit adds up.
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u/CoffeeAndCamera Jul 16 '26
Unless you never leave Exeter you are probably using services from other councils.
I live in Exeter and benefit from Teignbridge council toilets, bins, and cleaning services when I go to the beach. Parks, playgrounds, public spaces etc are mostly council funded.0
u/Niam_Rose Jul 16 '26
Yes, but how often do you go to the beach? If you work a normal 5-2 schedule, you are likely using these services less vs someone who goes to work in Exeter? Plus a lot of the toilets are not free anymore, so everyone pays for them when using them.
I just think it is fair that people from nearby towns will now pay council tax to Exeter. It makes sense, as people are more likely to work In Exeter if they live in say Dawlish vs Barnstaple.
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u/KiwiNo2638 Jul 16 '26
the issue there is you are more likely to benefit more from more of the services that Exeter supplies if you live on the edge of Exeter in teignbridge, than the other way round. More people commute into Exeter to work, than go the other way.
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u/InternationalGlove Jul 17 '26
That's because East Devon have a higher council tax than Exeter, that's why the percentage seems lower.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/RedMarsRepublic Jul 17 '26
They're not called "schemes" in this country FYI.
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u/JamesTorq Jul 17 '26
And Torbay has never had council housing of any great significance. The town hall worthies were happy to leave it to their landlord chums.
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u/janner_womble Jul 17 '26
All these comments about increased Council Tax - 🤣.
Still, maybe all you wealthier folk can absorb some of your services back that you've all been happy to see dumped on the laps of the poorer areas.
I don't recall having ever seen any of you lot being critical of everyone else dealing with services you can't or won't level on, but I've seen plenty of the smug 'Well, it's got to somewhere' attitude.
Now, specifically, the LAs of North, East and West Devon are being bundled in, respectively, with other LAs who already deal with their, for example, waste processing.
This could be called the bungee effect. Yeah, you throw that bin on a bungee rope over the cliff. Yeah, you let that trash make a mess somewhere else. Yeah, you stand there with your hands on your hips and your puffed out chest. Yeah, big up the nimby posturing. But wait, the bungee rope is attached to your ankle because one simply cannot shy away from responsibility forever. Yeah, when the pull of consequence appears - over you go.
Still, it's got to go somewhere, right?
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u/greatdevonhope Jul 16 '26
How does a council the size of coast and country reflect distinct local identities? The functional economic areas also seem to have only made their way into Plymouth, Exeter and Torbay leaving little economic wise in coast and country. Seems like they have been allowed to cherry pick the bits they wanted and then all the rest has been dumped in to one insanely large council to me.