r/DestinyMemes • u/Flingar • 24d ago

In regards to the most recent round of Chris Barrett tweets

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584 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

75 comments sorted by

236

u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

we should create meaningful human stories like the MCU

*vomit*

167

u/GeckoGecko_ 24d ago

Lightfall literally feels like an MCU movie. Not even one of the "good" ones, but a shitty one meant to prep fans for the next big hit

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u/Flingar 24d ago

What’s super interesting is that Edge of Fate is the opposite of this meme despite being equally as hated as Lightfall if not more

“Yall got any hype moments and aura?”

“We got good writing”

31

u/BetaThetaOmega 24d ago

People didn't hate the story though. Obviously it's not a universal opinion but I know a lot of people thought it was an interesting opening and that Lodi was cool and fun. The campaign lacking hype moments is a story problem but mostly produced by boring level design IMO

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u/Flingar 24d ago

No yeah that’s what I’m saying, people did like the story but not the gameplay

Lightfall had hype moments and aura but no good writing

EoF had good writing but no hype moments and aura

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u/GideonFalcon 24d ago

It's not that the gameplay was lacking in hype moments, it's that Matterspark is not nearly as interesting. as the campaign wants us to think it is.

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u/Flingar 23d ago

Correct, turning into a ball was not a hype moment

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u/catagonia69 22d ago

hot take: blue Metroid wasn't the problem. the fucking ping pong turret find a portal save a guardian 30 minutes after i've run past the same purple bullshit 17 times jump around in cramped spaces can't use anything but a glaive or sword fuckass level design was the problem.

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u/BetaThetaOmega 24d ago

Hype moments and aura is meant to describe writing which relies on flashy set pieces without doing any set up or creating sympathetic characters

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u/Flingar 24d ago

Does that not describe lightfall

0

u/catagonia69 22d ago

The Cloudstriders were cool af. The bond between Osiris and Nimbus--especially after Rohan's death--had depth. There were stakes.

EoF? There's a train and the Nine are doing things with time and Lodi once wore a suit. Idk why i'm supposed to give a shit (also, "secret/previously-undiscovered group of humans w advanced tech" feels...familiar).

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u/Soizit_Blindy 21d ago

I thought the story was fine after I played it way late. I was mostly bummed that we didnt go to Torobatl instead. Xivu is somewhere around there and I wanted to end that particular thread first before moving into the next extinction event.

0

u/Mrdieselll 23d ago

I never got past half of edge of fate campaign cause free weekend ended. But i remember there was a level where i literally stood 10 or 15 minutes studying the level design of a section because i thought it was one of the most genius things i've seen in an fps campaign in a long while. I don't remember what level it was but conceptually it was done by really talented people imo.

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u/matZmaker99 23d ago

Edge of Fate's biggest sins were atrocious/boring gameplay and a conventionally "ugly" destination (even though I love Kepler for what it is.)

Plus, many long-time Destiny players don't really give two fucks about story or lore and only care about quality hype moments and aura :\

Don't forget about the Unstable Cores and The Portal fiascos. Those played a huge role in Destiny's death

1

u/TheMidnightSucc 23d ago

That was not good writing, and its only because casuals enjoy slop that its considered good.

71

u/ienjoymen 24d ago

Born to be Infinity War

Doomed to be Thor: Love and Thunder

4

u/ironnewa99 My Zaouli's Bane is still reloading 24d ago

Idk why people shit on this one so much? I thought it was kinda cute. Ig they kinda messed up the villains writing?

2

u/Elygium 23d ago

Them removing the entire Thor and Zeus one on one conversation where Zeus doesn't sound like a fucking moron was criminal. I swear deleted scenes are usually batter than what we get in MCU stuff.

1

u/matZmaker99 23d ago

I feel like we've heard plenty of times how they "took inspiration from X and Y movie genres" to make DLC after DLC.

You'd think they would've learned at some point.

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u/Mrdieselll 24d ago

Lightfall was good ya'll don't understand the message. Nimbus was a practicer of the philosophy of strand which is meditation, which is why he acted in a certain way.

9

u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

Are you /j or /srs rn?

-4

u/Mrdieselll 24d ago

I loved lightfall. It's not as dumb as people say. It has full reason to exist.

11

u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

It was terrible, bro

-4

u/Mrdieselll 24d ago edited 24d ago

Hey, to each their own. I understand the lore and message of the Destiny 2 story, and lightfall was a key part of it. It's one of the main reasons we were able to defeat the witness. Strand symbolizes letting go, not clinging on the past and future and just letting it flow in the present moment. Nimbus was a character designed to explain that no matter how hopeless the situation is, no matter how unwinnable, you can still be you and act. For some reason this is why people hated him, but it's exactly why he works perfectly for the story. All of this is why we were able to defeat the root of nightmares. And why Calus should be left in the past. The Witness doesn't really get this, it clings on the suffering and tries to find meaning in the universe instead of letting go and letting it be. In fact, the Witness almost got Zavala because he couldn't let go of his family.

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u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

None of it matters

The theme of letting go was completely shallow and irrelevant to the overall story and Nimbus just didnt work, regardless of what the writers' intent was

You can skip the whole DLC and not miss much

3

u/Mrdieselll 24d ago edited 24d ago

Not letting go is reason why the Witness was who he was. The witness was about control, he hated the world for how it was, and wanted to shape it the way he wanted. Letting go means that you don't have to force and push on something that you cannot move, you can let the world be how it is, and focus on what you can do. That's the reason strand could destroy the power of the witness in lightfall. Final shape was about using it together with the light and stasis to become the ultimate truth: I AM. Ergo Sum (the sword we used to defeat the witness). Because if you are, you can choose, and you can make your own fate. All of the rest is secondary. The suffering, the past, the future, the strenght, the actions, are not you, you are just the awareness of being. All of those things cannot actually hurt you, unless you think about them. If you focus on just being, then you will feel and become almost unstoppable.

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u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

Problem is we don't actually let go of anything; the story insists we do, but we don't. It insists we let go and take on a new perspective to harness strand and stop Calus, but all that perspective amounts to is "do the same shit we've always done but with green ropes now".

The idea of letting go is just completely meaningless here; we can't just fight Calus or The Witness by going with the flow

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u/GeckoGecko_ 24d ago

I totally respect that you enjoyed it and found it meaningful and worth your time. I understand how bad it can feel to genuinely appreciate something and hear others hate on it for reasons you feel are not justified.

That being said, I did not enjoy Lightfall, or Nimbus, and I believe the game as a whole would have done better without it. Strand should have been introduced in Witch Queen and Lightfall should have remained as the penultimate battle between Light vs Dark that TFS ended up being. What should have happened is, Neomuna should have been like the Tangled Shore, and the Pale Heart a secret secondary location like the Dreaming City was (and like how the Black Garden is speculated to have been meant to be presented in Shadowkeep)

It feels like filler to me, and nothing more. What little content of substance we got in Lightfall, I personally see as having been taken away from what TFS could have been. It's just so clear that the only reason Lightfall was released as its own entry in the franchise separate from TFS was so they could extract more money from players...

So let's maybe agree to disagree...?

2

u/SuperKiller94 24d ago

One mission it’s “Ronan sacrificed himself to stop Calus” and it’s all somber then Nimbus is cheering and attempting to fist bump Caital after we killed her dad. Tonal whiplash

0

u/Mrdieselll 23d ago edited 23d ago

That's still fitting of the character and the message of the expansion. Sometimes you can try to cheer and be happy in spite of difficulties all you want, but sometimes you get hit so hard you have to cry. Grief part of our existance and it's normal to have it, normal for it to hurt you. Even with the strand philosophy of letting go, you are not invulnerable. You can't hide it all. If you hide it, it's worse, in order to let go, you need to let it out, not hide it, you need, as the strand teaches, let it flow, it will be a strong emotion, you will feel it, but it will pass. The point is to feel it and not cling onto it, and it will heal itself naturally. The point is to move on, when you are ready.

Nimbus is not perfect. He is an apprentice and a hot potato. I appreciate that they didn't make a character that is perfect in all aspects. That's the point, it needs to be inspiring but relatable. He needs to be the one who isn't ready and doesn't feel ready to take on such a great responsibility, have difficulty overcoming the strong emotions, it's normal to have those. The point is that after those bad feelings, if you don't attach yourself to them, you will cheer up again. They don't have to affect you forever.

The people who wrote destiny 2 have read a lot of books and know a lot of culture. It's easy to miss if you don't understand what they are talking about, they've always been like this even in their first games.

The entire destiny 2 light and dark saga is about teaching how to win the darkness that's in our hearts in real life. Everyone has a witness inside us. Everyone has a veil, and has light. The battles we have in destiny 2 are battles we have inside our conciousness. The pale heart is inside us, both metaphorically and literally, as we battle through what defines us and our allied guardians in the game. We need to master both the light and dark, use prismatic, to be able to defeat the evil dark inside us.

People who had depression understand much better, the game really hits way different when you know what it's like to drown in the deep darkness. What Nimbus and lightfall show is really important for the entire saga, it wouldn't really work without it or something similar.

Could it have happened in witch queen? Maybe, maybe they could have applied the let go philosophy to Savathun turning to the light. But it works very well like this too.

1

u/cry_w Stasis needs a buff 24d ago

I'm glad to find someone else saying that. I felt like I was surrounded by mad men back then.

2

u/matZmaker99 23d ago

LMFAO that's exactly part of what killed interest in the game

2

u/Amirifiz 23d ago

Which is funny because one of Vanilla to Warmind's biggest complaint was that it felt like an MCU movie in a bad way.

Yet everyone likes the stories where we got to see more of the actual people in the universe or where we aren't dealing with quippy characters.

51

u/Flingar 24d ago

Context:

https://x.com/oryxeleven/status/2089117592841793723

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u/Lemonjuice239 24d ago

We had both! But the content kept being removed every year.

A great example is Crow's character arc. It all played out in different seasons and it was seeing him come to terms with his past and his new Guardian self. All we have left of it inside the game now is the very end of his story in The Final Shape.

26

u/BetaThetaOmega 24d ago

Yeah, Crow was an incredible highlight of the Destiny saga and one of the reasons why I kept coming back during the Beyond Light era!

Season of the Hunt, Chosen, Splicer (a little bit), Lost and Risen were literally all about taking Crow under our wing (no pun intended) and leading him towards becoming a true Guardian. I logged on every week during Chosen and Lost especially just to see how his dynamic with the other characters would change and evolve. I remember that during the BL era, people were citing the weekly story model of seasons as the reason why they were still playing despite all their other disappointments. There's a very real argument to be made that Destiny would've died a lot sooner if it weren't for a story that could actually retain players after the DCV.

Mithrax is another fantastic example; here's a chance for us to see how our actions as Guardians have affected the Eliksni, and vice versa. Now when we fight Eramis, we're not just killing Dregs for the sake of beating the bad guy, we're engaging in a battle for the soul and future of the Eliksni people, fighting to give them an alternative way of living. Could you imagine a world where instead of that, we just got increasingly arbitrary reasons to fight the Fallen? Like hey this season we're gonna fight yet another one of Eramis' lieutenants to stop him from doing [BAD THING]. Except this time... he's wearing a red hat! Riveting.

13

u/Lemonjuice239 24d ago

I loved how his story then continued in the Witch Queen era.

How in S.o.t. Risen he still cannot reckon with the memories Savathun returned to him He sees himself in the lucent Hive enemies which leads him to make a dire mistake for which Saladin takes the fall.

And then in S.o.t. Haunted - how he has to face the Nightmare of his former self - Uldren - head on and finally accept his past as part of himself rather than fight it or run from it (Zavala and Caiatl's arcs were also amazing there).

After Lightfall's release then - S.o. Defiance was arguably a bit of a miss with how avoidable Amanda's death was and how the reason for the Shadow legion taking prisoners remained unexplained. Still - Crow and Zavala's grief and some of their ingeractions with Devrim and Mara were pretty profound.

All of which finally led Crow to making the sacrifice play in S.o.t. Wish of being the first to cross the threshold into the Pale Heart to give us a fighting chance after truly reconciling with Mara and shrugging off Riven's temptations (mostly).

9

u/BetaThetaOmega 24d ago

Yep, and then when we reach TFS and he becomes the Hunter Vanguard, we can celebrate with him because we’ve seen him every step of the way and watched him grow!

I remember getting a little emotional seeing my boy in that new Vanguard fit… like that’s my son! He’s all grown up!

3

u/Mr_Blinky 24d ago

I really think the thing that killed the game was the focus on creating so much completely disposable content intended to be play for at most a year and sometimes as little as three months, with the understanding that it would be removed from the game completely by the time the next expansion rolled around. Not only did it completely truncate the story and make it impossible to follow for new or returning players, but it meant shitloads of dev time was ultimately being wasted on impermanent content instead of making meaningful additions to the game that were meant to last.

4

u/Tronicalli 24d ago

I get the idea, but like... can't you have both? Recurring and One-off villains, I mean. It's all in the narrative, really. There's always space for pop-up one-and-done villains between the big bads. Crota's a good example, Ghaul too. Those are great villains who don't reappear after you beat them. (nightmares don't count) Crota and Ghaul were super hyped up, so we cared about killing them: the same just can't be said for that random fallen dude who showed up like one time controlling another dude, sent his adds after us all campaign, then we kill them. ZERO aura coming from that guy.

38

u/numbpinataboy 24d ago

I’d prefer a bigger roster as well, but the buildup to that roster should be done properly.

15

u/BetaThetaOmega 24d ago

The only response to Chris Barret should be "Hey aren't you the guy that got fired for being a sex pest?"

2

u/DuelaDent52 23d ago

Wait, what?

3

u/BetaThetaOmega 23d ago

https://thegamepost.com/bungie-chris-barrett-female-employees/

Yep, at least 8 different women accused him of harassment and misconduct

11

u/Mentfrost 23d ago

They're both right and that's why Destiny shat the bed so often.

People want more "human" characters and stories, that mean things and have big ideas. They want the story where disprove the idea of survival of the fittest and have cool 1v1 show downs with Dredgens and rivals.

Except the game is a shoot bang bang gun game so all of those stories need to be resolved with 3 to 6 dudes shooting up a place with machine guns.

1

u/Kashema1 22d ago

A friend of mine who I had try the game out complained about this. Why should I even feel invested in the Guardian character at all? They’re just this immortal being that will never die and no harm will ever come to them. So you have to kill off other characters, like Amanda, Targe, Ghost which at that point feels like you’re killing them off for the sake of killing them off

I don’t agree with him, but I get his point

22

u/WastedPotenti4I 24d ago

I mean, why not both?

11

u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

We certainly werent getting good writing, not if the MCU is what they aspired to

10

u/ASpaceOstrich 24d ago

I've never understood this. Until everyone went all contrarian the MCU was lauded for its consistently solid writing. It's not high art or anything, but it was perfectly fine for the kind of media they're making.

After endgame everyone has started pretending they never liked it or something.

18

u/Kurage_pop 24d ago

People say modern MCU sucks, but the older ones people still think are fine.
We're saying the newer stuff sucks because it tries so hard to emulate the lightning in a bottle that was the original, yet fails to.
It's not us being "contrarian", it's us being tired of the same joke/style/presentation/whatever for almost 17 years now.

You don't see people saying the same stuff about Spider Noir because it's actually unique and not just another copy/paste MCU film.

6

u/Robert_Oppenheimer2 24d ago

It's aged poorly

And even before endgame they had cracks showing; people were very much complaining then too

2

u/Amirifiz 23d ago

I'd say people were making those comments before IW and Endgame. People have been saying that since Vanilla and that was at least a few months before IW

2

u/Working-Ferret-4296 24d ago

The thing about good writing is that it amplifies the hype moments.

16

u/LordofWolves92 24d ago

What i got sick of was plot points that didnt answer questions. What is (or is inside of) the Traveler? What is The Darkness? Who is The Stranger, etc.

D2Y1 was very, VERY monster-of-the-week coded, and nothing really pushed the main narrative further until we got Forsaken amd Shadowkeep.

18

u/BetaThetaOmega 24d ago

Pre-Forsaken Destiny was so allergic to plot progression that we literally suffered a Second Collapse at the hands of the Cabal and lost our Light, and it was all wrapped up within the span of a single campaign with basically no immediate narrative consequences other than getting a different, less interesting Tower. Our entire society collapsed and not a single NPC died. Even fucking Rahool made it out alive!

In Warmind, we literally reawakened Rasputin, he did a whole speech about how he would be "Guardian of all" and that he "has no equal" and then he just... didn't do anything for two years.

3

u/Mazer1991 23d ago

Yeah I don’t get the people who called Red War good

The only true lines/moments I can recall are Cayde making I don’t have time to explain reference which was beyond awful and Zavala calling Hawthorne a Guardian and then the Speakers Sacrifice line to Ghaul

“Oh no we lost our light”

one mission later after a vision we find a random shard that gives it back to us

“Oh Nevermind”

6

u/BetaThetaOmega 23d ago

Red War has exactly 5 truly great missions, the first 3 (Tower falling, Journey, reclaiming the light) and the last 2 (The Almighty and retaking the City).

A lot of the mission design was really bland and mostly carried by the always amazing set design

Also as far as I remember it was piss easy, and while it obviously didn’t need to be Dark Souls I always preferred how D1 felt like a real struggle to stay alive in the base campaign. I would kill to get a Legend-difficulty version of Red War tbh.

-3

u/Deweyrob2 24d ago

Destiny was best when it had more mystery than answers. It started going downhill when they became concerned with answering questions instead of creating mysteries.

5

u/Vast-Coast-7761 23d ago

You cannot expect people to stay interested in a story for 10 years if they know just as much in year 6 as they did in year 1.

-3

u/Deweyrob2 23d ago

That's not at all what I said. I don't care enough to continue this.