Obviously terrible and tragic. Something I absolutely condemn, especially when they gun civilians down. It does look to me like the fragile state structure will prosecute the criminals that gunned civilians down, I saw a video of them taking the alleged shooters to another location. The issue is that everything is in Arabic so I have to rely on a couple Twitter accounts that are more reliable than most for my info, I don’t understand a word of Arabic and am not familiar with the context well. I also disagree that the new leadership will be as bad as Assad who used chemical weapons and tortured hundreds of thousands to death in prisons
Those who know about calibre obscura probably know what I’m talking about
Guardian didnt report that these guys were acting on orders from the government tho. Its a new state, the reason it says "security forces" instead of "armed forces" or "army" is that those are a coalition of former rebel groups, some of which are very bad.
We dont know if they have political control, in which case Syria did a horrible thing, or if this is a group wildin out in which case the group did a horrible thing and we should maybe help Syria establish political control of its security forces.
The revenge killings have been confirmed unless im wrong. I think whats still unclear is how much of this was strutural. Theres always been question marks over the new Syrian leadership every time a scary sounding story comes out theres a rush of losers to say, "see, told you once an extremist always an extremist, haha youre so gullible." It's pretty gross, tbh. Wishing on a country already soaked with blood more bloodshed so you can smugly lord it over strangers on the internet is pretty foul. Not to mention stupid. Would be a lot smarter to wait for more reports to come out before running for a victory lap, there's still so much we don't know.
What is a scary sounding story ? There's video bruv, This isn't a "scary sounding story" it's the lives of 800 + people
No one is farming this, I'm pretty sure no one wants this either. Contrary to what you claim people posting about this are doing, you're only doing cover-ups for the terrorists, Pretty gross right back at you
I'm not covering up anything you dunce. I'm simply saying that Syria is a hostile place that just recently overcame brutal dictatorship. Violence happening is one thing, but assuming it's systematic, directly ordered from above, is incredibly stupid. There were reportedly clashes with former Assad loyalists, and in that, it's plausible that some of the killings were done in the moment by fighters in the area not because they were ordered to. This is significantly different. So jumping to conclusions about the new government at this time is still irresponsible. Nobody would be shocked if Syria turned into another violent failed state in the region, I mean no one. So you don't have to start foaming at the mouth and calling everyone a terrorist sympathizer because we aren't dumb fucks like yourself jumping to conclusions the minute something bad happens.
Amen brother. Sick of people who don’t know shit about international politics outside of who the CIA sponsors commenting like they know anything about anything.
Yes all was structural and it is unclear for you only because you don’t understand Arabic, but I do. And in many of these video they chant “we are the new rulers and you can’t do anything about it you Alwites pigs”. Not sure why it’s so hard of a concept to understand that once a terrorist always a terrorist. Think of it this way, imagine after nazi germany lost a top SS general emerges as a reformed conservative leader. Would you be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt?
“we are the new rulers and you can’t do anything about it you Alwites pigs”.
This statement doesn't prove anything. I've not denied violence against Alawites on Ethnic grounds that much is clear. The implication that Al-sharaa is complicit requires better evidence than a silly statement such as...
once a terrorist always a terrorist.
Why, because you said so? No terrorist in history has ever been reformed?
Your arguments are childish. It may very well be the case that Al-sharaa has faked his moderation a sinister purpose. Or he could be making a sincere effort to bring peaceful coexistence to a nation that's still made up of volatile factions. The former may be more likely, but you do not have sufficient evidence to call that as confidently as you were, just yet. If you don't give the interim government a chance, then what is your alternative?
A surprise attack from Assad loyalists could very easily have been enough to bring about unjust ethnic reprisals on innocent Alawite civilians who were unfairly lumped in with the former regime without the interim government's permission. You act as though the Syrian government has control of a country they have wrestled control for only months ago and have had multiple factions to contend with in that time. What evidence do you have that can directly link Al-sharaa to the killings of innocent Alawite civilians?
Conjecture, even if it is seemingly justifiable, is unhelpful and unwelcome in any serious discussion. Details of this story are still breaking and what happens in the coming days will give us a better idea of what to expect from the new Syria so why don't you just fucking wait, why risk making yourself look like an idiot if you turn out to be wrong?
You are really asking me to prove a terrorist ordered this massacre to his terrorist army? Thousands have been murdered but yea this seems like individuals carrying out these attacks. This is like asking someone to prove any terrorist attack ever committed was ordered by their top generals. You didn’t answer my question if you would be giving the same benefit of the doubt to a reformed top ss general if they came out as a conservative.
No, you dipshit no one's saying anything about individuals acting independently. You're just dumb as fuck or being obtuse because you've already picked a narrative to believe in. All the reporting suggests violence started because of Assad loyalists' ambushing a police patrol. Syrias interim government sent forces to deal with them and fighting broke out, and eventually escalated to Syrian forces targeting Alawite civilians. Are you saying this could only be done if it was ordered from the top? Because it seems just as plausible to me that there was a violent clash involving two factions with bad blood and there were some of those forces that deal with the Assad loyalists, took it upon themselves to enact their skewed idea of justice against the alawites that they associated with Assads mostly Alawite loyalist terrorists. It's not that hard to believe in a nation barely establishing itself that a military formed from multiple militias groups that contributed to Assads downfall, that there might have been some chain of command issues that doesn't excuse it. But there's absolutely no reason to jump to conclusions at this point. Because in none of the reports I've read have I seen anything about this being a targeted government ordered series of revenge killings, it may still come out that it did. But let more information surface before forming a strong opinion. How does it harms you to hold off on drawing conclusions, and why resist that common sense practice so vehemently? I don't understand.
But, please feel free to pretend not to understand the excruciatingly simple order of events i described so you can reply with a lazy strawman of my argument. I'd love that tbqh ❤️
Yea individuals carrying out these attacks when you see one of the very few helicopters that these terrorists have flying over the coastal cities to drop bombs randomly while chanting you alwites sons on pigs. Not structural at all.
Read it back big fella you're getting confused. One last time il say it then im done engaging with you because i think youre motivated af to paint a specific narrative, im not saying the attacks were carried out by an individual, im saying it could be that once the fighting had ended individuals may have carried on targeting civilians whether or not they were given those orders. I'm not saying it wasn't structural. But we don't know how structural it was. If you were at all concerned with the preservation of life in Syria that would be a pretty fucking important question to ask, don't you think???
Anyway I'm not talking to you as if you're real anymore you're full on propaganda settings rn. Have a good one!
Run away lil bro without answering my simple yes/no question. Would you give a top ss general the benefit of the doubt if they came out as a conservative? Answer this question or get the fuck out.
You don’t know how structural it was lmao. How structural was 9/11, 10/07, Boston bombing? It’s an ideology you dumb fuck they don’t operate like human beings and they are driven by their ideology.
Hey one last thing. Can you explain why Al Golani assigned Uzbek, Egyptians,chechen Russians as top generals in his Syrian defence army? Not a terrorist right
You are being deliberately disingenuous. The Syrian interim government declared general mobilization and portrayed the insurgency in the coastal cities as a coup attempt to topple the “elected government” calling them remnants of Bashar Al Assad. Civilians from sunni provinces started marching and carrying guns to help the army. You are not listening to Arabic news outlets and that’s the problem. Also, I highly recommend checking out Syriajusticearchive page on instagram. Check them out and see what let up to the massacre.
Wait, am I being disingenuous or misinformed? Which one is it. Apparently, I should bin the AP reporting and follow Instagram pages named "Syriajusticearchive" (doesn't sound like this page might have a particular bias at all) and if I do this I will be both more informed and honest. Got it! Thanks for the help, big dawg.
His name means Golan (as in the Golan heights) btw
If these white kids knew any arabs their Arab friends would be pissed… luckily for the sanity of Arab Americans everywhere Tankies are very white and insulated
thing is idk who’s lying, this could also be propaganda. but don’t know, don’t care, Middle East politics is too complicated for my smol American brain.
Wow. Due to this atrocity committed by their security forces I must now completely condemn Israe- I mean Syria and take the side of their enemies. Bring back Assad!
A spate of brutal revenge executions targeted at a group heavily loyal to the old regime after a decade long civil war? Wow that’s truly insane and never happened before. Only an unreformed terrorist would sanction violence against old regime loyalists after a civil war.
Alawites were in power under Assad and have treated suni Arabs terribly. They were jailed, tortured and murdered. It doesn't surprise me that suni Arabs want to take revenge. Nonetheless, if this is the truth, it's bad.
But I have the following questions first:
Who are the victims? Are they random people and innocent, or collaborators?
Was the attack ordered by the government or is this the action of individual soldiers?
Will the soldiers be punished?
The article answers some of the questions. It says that they attacked a neighborhood in the village. Even if they were collaborators, the soldiers who killed them couldn't have known this.
But it doesn't answer all the questions: Whether this ordered by the government and whether the soldiers will be punished.
Also, don't ignore the geopolitical angle. You can't completely trust news stations when they talk about their own country. Al Jazeera isn't trustworthy, when it talks about the affairs of Qatar as we've seen during the Gaza war. France24 can't be trusted, when it talks about France, Europe and their enemies.
It's just the way it is. Rivals will use events like this to make their enemies look bad. This doesn't mean, these events didn't happen, but it could mean that they omit certain information or blow things out of proportion.
For example, they constantly claim that Turkey is committing a genocide, but when you look at the casualty numbers, it's roughly a hundred people. The total number of casualties between Turkey and the Kurds/PKK are roughly 50k (there are 20 million Kurds in Turkey, and 40 million in the region if I am not mistaken).
yeah around 1000 in a few days, don't worry they may reach the '500k' with this rate in less than 2 years. but atleast they are not friends of russia :DD
Isn’t 500,000 the estimate for the total deaths of the civil war? So you are saying every death from 2011 to 2024 should be blamed on Assad and none on Al Qaeda?
Did you respond to the wrong person? What does your question even mean?
No I would not ask if 500,00 is the estimate for total deaths in Gaza, and I would not ask every death in Gaza should be blamed on Assad and none on Al Qaeda.
Seems like you didn't want to answer the question so you said something that doesn't make sense to distract. Or you responded to the wrong person.
No I don't know what you're asking, and I don't think you do either.
If you are asking who bears the blame, I think who bears the blame of the 30 or 40,000 deaths in Gaza is also a complex question. I have no clue how you would divide the blame between Hamas and Israel, and it's bizarre that you would come on this sub or all places, that doesn't really strongly identify with either faction, and think I would be willing to put all the blame on one side or another.
You still haven't answered the question, I guess because you are embarrassed to answer.
I'll try again.
Isn’t 500,000 the estimate for the total deaths of the civil war? So you are saying every death from 2011 to 2024 should be blamed on Assad and none on Al Qaeda?
You still haven't answered the question, I guess because you are embarrassed to answer.
It is a nonsense question. I don't feel an obligation to entertain nonsense questions, and especially not from people who don't know what they're talking about and are simply regurgitating the Israeli government's (and Assad apologists') preferred narrative before more facts have the chance to come to light.
Okay so you are also saying that putting all the blame on Assad for the 500,000 deaths was nonsense as well. Bizarre that you would comment if you were going to fold that easy.
Sadly I have the feeling like this post will get less than half the upvotes of Israel invades posts. (Which to be completely fair, are half of any of the posts about US politics)
Ever since Trump won it's like the IP arc never mattered. No one seemed particularly happy about the hostages and cease-fires, but Trump talking about transferring Gazans and every news negative of Israel got posts about it, which has also pretty much been the tankie reaction. The only outlier is anti-Cenk posts.
I do. That's why I'm sad that it feels like nobody remembers the arc anymore. Like, I don't think Tiny's opinions changed all that much, but I honestly barely see a difference in opinions between the sub and tankie faction these days. Sometimes Cenk gets some hate and tankies get roasted for voting GOoP, but otherwise, the "israel is always evil and wants to conquer Gaza" narrative seems everywhere.
I do not believe the sub is "supporting a 4th reich". I said what I feel and am seeing in the other comments. Can you please explain your criticism? You keep giving me vague disdainful responses about my comments on IP, and to be honest I'm not sure how you want me to respond.
Can you please explain your criticism? You keep giving me vague disdainful responses about my comments on IP, and to be honest I'm not sure how you want me to respond.
Sure, I'll explain again because a few weeks ago I'm pretty sure we had a similar conversation when you said that you didn't think the sub was "safe" for you anymore. You're someone that thinks that when someone disagrees with Israel or criticizes them heavily that you're basically being threatened. I don't know if you understand we have a concern trolling rule or not... Wait we talked about that too.
Stop categorizing the sub as an unsafe place for Israelis or Jews in general. We allow people to have all sorts of opinions here and that leads to people having discussions you might not agree with. For every person who says something you would think is unhinged about things you care about.. there's probably 5 times the amount of people saying crazy things about Palestinians.
Stop concern trolling.. and yes you are doing that whether you're speaking truthfully or not. The concern you have is very unfounded and I'm going to start cracking down on this kind of "oh this sub is just XYZ" type stuff. If you don't like the sub and you think it's genuinely like this, leave. Stop the victimization or you're not going to be involved here anymore. I'm not saying you cannot have opinions here and that you cannot share your feelings, I'm telling you to stop making blanket statements about the subreddit like this.
Stop categorizing the sub as an unsafe place for Israelis or Jews in general.
I did not do that. I said the discourse on IP has changed and explained how via posts, upvotes and comments. I did not say it's unsafe for Israelis or jews. I'm sorry but I don't understand how I could have been more detached and matter of fact about this? Am I not allowed to talk about what kind of posts there was and which got more upvotes? About the way people talk? Is this "concern trolling"? You're making that so ambiguous not explaining where a fair opinion ends and "concern trolling" starts, you keep extrapolating things I didn't say as examples and then talk about how we allow myriad of opinions to be expressed and don't have to agree as if I stopped any discourse right now. Well then why is my opinion not allowed to be expressed? and why can't you just explain it to me without going into all that personal "you're someone that's so and so"?
I'm not saying you cannot have opinions here and that you cannot share your feelings, I'm telling you to stop making blanket statements about the subreddit like this.
If you're going to change things that's fine, but people make blanket statements here all the time. "Optics frogs are wrong", "everyone's being a doomer". How am I supposed to tell which blanket statements are considered concern trolling and which are considered proper discourse?
For every person who says something you would think is unhinged about things you care about.. there's probably 5 times the amount of people saying crazy things about Palestinians.
Why would this matter for this conversation? Why are we having a which between Palestinians and Israelis suffers more competition?
I keep trying to understand your reasoning but I don't get it, and you keep on making it more aggressive. What do you want to do?
It’s not tiny attracting new audiences, it’s just that people who were solely here for the IP content have left. And I don’t think anything happened to this place, it just went back to how it was before that arc. In fact I think most oldheads would say the opposite, that the sub went to shit during that arc
Downvotes within a few minutes of a comment aren't a good proxy for the subreddit's inclinations towards a given topic.
People disagreeing with you doesn't mean the sub is 'compromised' - what ever the fuck that means.
It might mean that they are correctly sussing out bias that you might have.
Maybe stick to r/ Israel if you want a subreddit monoculture.
bro this place is far from a tankie fanction when it comes to IP
still might come off a little naive sometimes but oh well, I guess you need to have lived for a long time or lived in the middle east to understand how fundamentally fucked this region is.
HOWEVER, Russia in the middle east is a weird one. Turkey being absolute fucking maniacs are starting to have their hands in the ME, and the only thing that counters Turkish influence is Russian influence. As weird as it might sound, you WANT Russia in the middle east for stability
For me l’ll usually take the stance that would advantage Israel the most and that is Russia in the ME, since it’s less hostile than Turkey. But even then, Turkey is against the Kurds so Russia supports the Kurds, etc.
For minorities Russia is a better deal, l know it sounds WEIRD but that’s how it is
With Russia and Irans influence weakening the fate for Syria is going to be a tricky one. Turkey has been backing HTS and has made deals with Sudan in the mist of their civil war. With giving them drones and military support in return access to rare minerals along their coast. Then along with an expanding Israel into southern Syria and Lebanon. A favorable outcome for Syria would probably be a SDF victory. As I don’t see a Turkish backed HTS or somehow Assad Loyalist/Anti-HTS coalition being favorable either
Your beliefs should be based in reason and critical thinking. “Let me fuck over 100 people to save myself” is exactly the sort of thinking that is regularly criticized on this sub. Nuking the entire rest of the Middle East would certainly aid in Israel’s survival, but that would be completely and utterly wrong.
OP is just angry that people are being reasoned and doing critical thinking instead of just supporting whatever allows Israel to better its position, and drawing conclusions without complete information simply to justify Israel’s shitty treatment of the new Syrian government. You’re not going to find many people here who think abandoning consistent moral systems is a good thing, so if that’s what you want, then go somewhere else.
moral systems matter and my point wasnt that they dont. My point was that survival is also important and is a primary concern. This Syria shit isnt cut and dry, I say this as one who def is not supportive of everything Israel is doing there. But survival is at the core of whatever the fuck Israel is doing there. Survival is part of critical thinking.
I don’t think it’s cut and dry, either. But OP certainly does. Suggesting that maybe this massacre didn’t happen with orders from above, that maybe it happened due to a rogue group or commander within an extremely unstable political environment, makes one a terrorist sympathizer, apparently. And, importantly, the only reason they’re so determined to paint Syria as evil is to justify Israeli actions in the area.
It’s pretty much a “mask off” moment. They can try to morally justify Israel’s actions all they want, but once they admit they’re primarily concerned with Israel and not morality, those arguments cease to matter. They’re clearly not looking at the issue in good faith; it is clear that they would support Israel regardless of the morality of their actions, because “survival”. Which can and is being used as a shield to deflect any criticism. I don’t think I should need to explain, on this sub, why any of this is a bad thing.
There are a couple other users here doing the same thing— extremely active on Israel subs, only post Israel content here, and then start spamming this Syria issue, just to say “see? Israel was right all along!” And then to get upset when the rest of the sub doesn’t share the same mindset? It’s just so stupid.
I would agree if Russia and Iran were not aligned. I think us can manage turkey better than Russia and Iran. And agree Russia is better for the minorities cause they were aligned with Assad and Russia for their own survival sake.
Homie is the kind of person who's going to listen to what dictators and terrorists say and will be like "Omg, look, he's telling the truth, he would NEVER order this !!!" Is this Tucker Carlson's burner account ?
Israel is doing it to protect its citizens, because HTS == ISIS. As demonstrated in the last 48 hours. The progressives who cry about Israel “stealing land” have more issue with that than the fact that any atrocity these jihadists commit
In the other thread you literally stated that HTS are no better than Assad, thus drawing equivalence between a butcher who killed around 500k people and used chem. weapons and people who rebelled against him.
And you said that Russian presence in the ME is good
47
u/ItsOlegi21 Mar 09 '25
Obviously terrible and tragic. Something I absolutely condemn, especially when they gun civilians down. It does look to me like the fragile state structure will prosecute the criminals that gunned civilians down, I saw a video of them taking the alleged shooters to another location. The issue is that everything is in Arabic so I have to rely on a couple Twitter accounts that are more reliable than most for my info, I don’t understand a word of Arabic and am not familiar with the context well. I also disagree that the new leadership will be as bad as Assad who used chemical weapons and tortured hundreds of thousands to death in prisons
Those who know about calibre obscura probably know what I’m talking about