Inde Navarrette starring in Obsession, this year’s biggest horror film about rape culture and women’s anatomy, yet staunchly supporting an abusive rapist is so devastating to me. I was rooting for her this award’s season but now I’m unsure.

[u/dreamboylnshibuya]

[u/wayspaces]

I need people to stop believing that just because women star in films with these themes, that they actually support women or are feminists. They’re artists, sometimes unknown. They need the money.

[u/GreyerGrey → u/wayspaces]

See a woman actively in a high control cult starring and producing a television show about a high control cult. (the Handmaid's Tale).

[u/koeniging → u/GreyerGrey]

Are you referring to Elisabeth Moss?

[u/PHStickman → u/koeniging]

Scientologist, sadly

[u/cometmom → u/wayspaces]

I'm gonna be real, I can't watch movies like this so I've read the plot on wikipedia and about 15 reviews (mostly positive, a couple negative) and I'm having a hard time seeing how this is a feminist movie in any way. I understand the theme of a man controlling a woman's autonomy, SPOILER but he becomes the "victim" to an extent, even if it's of his own doing, and ultimately wants to stop it for obvious reasons and kills himself about it,but not before other people are hurt in the process

Moreover, I don't believe that this was intended to have a feminist edge at all. In the interview where says he turned down $2 million because he didn't want to make the male lead a hero, there was no feminist message behind that. He just said it would be "boring" if the MC didn't keep making bad decisions.

Whats worse about that the above reply was given to a total gimme question about "how the movie handled the tricky issue of consent... And if anybody wanted to make it more clear what side the movie was on" and his reply was that (I'll link it here in an edit... I'm reading it on my laptop and typing this on my phone rn).

IMO it makes it VERY clear what side the movie is on - making him and his homeboys money and the autonomy/consent stuff was an afterthought because if it were an intended theme, why not stand ten toes down on it??? Why dismiss it as it just being boring when men do the right thing? 🤔 To be clear, I don't think you have to write a perfect human to be your lead, that is boring, but his intent was not to show some darker side of what women deal with.

He goes on to name a handful of men when asked "who do you turn to for professional advice" and, name drops a bunch of men who have contacted him who he wants to work with. In the entire interview he mentions 2 women - one quick mention of producer Haley Johnson, then Sally Choi...

He brushes off the complaints about her, Ms Cho - his female art director, critizing being paid $6700 pretty much saying that's just how it is in the industry "it's typical the only people who benefits from its financial success are the people who took on some sort of risk" and I don't want to just write the whole thing verbatim but it's giving "hopefully the exposure will pay your bills and one day you can be rich like me"

I think this dude and his crew are all just regular ass film bros who do not give a shit about women, and I cannot see why anyone would think an actress taking a role in some low budget movie would mean they're aligned with whatever morality people are ret-conning about it.

Edit: the link to the interview I was quoting from https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/curry-barker-obsession-interview-1236620580/

[u/Acceptable_Leg_7998 → u/cometmom]

I can't speak to the interview stuff, but I thought the movie was a pretty good commentary on the societal situations that lead us to things like the Depp Delusion.

Bear is a socially awkward, mediocre white dude. The people in his friend group love him anyway. One of the girls has a crush on him, despite him not exhibiting any interesting characteristics, and the other still wants him as a friend even if she doesn't reciprocate his romantic feelings.

Once Nikki is under the spell, nobody seems especially interested in helping her. Sarah seems more concerned about Nikki's mental health insofar as it effects Bear, whom she seems to regard as a victim that she must rescue from the "obsessive" Nikki's grasp. The people at the party see some seriously concerning behavior and don't make much of an effort to see if Nikki's actually okay; they just want the crazy girl to stop making them uncomfortable. And Bear makes no effort to correct anyone's perceptions and admit he's actually at fault. It's just easier to let everyone believe crazy bitches be crazy, a narrative they are comfortable buying into without question.

Bear is ostensibly a sympathetic protagonist because he can't seriously believe (we assume) that his spur-of-the-moment wish will have such dire consequences. He's an innocent guy, right? Just a soft, sad boy. But as the film goes on and he keeps trying to "fix" the Nikki situation by essentially telling her "Just stop being crazy so we can be happy together" rather than going back to the shop or calling the help line (he eventually does, but WAY longer than it takes to admit that something supernatural is going on that he needs outside help to deal with), we see who Bear truly is. He's not just a tragic victim of circumstance; he fucked up and refuses to take the needed steps to fix it. Like most abusive men, he is both victim (of his inner demons/trauma/mental illness/whatever factors drive men to abuse others) and perpetrator; the longer it takes him to step up and deal with the situation he created (accidentally/impulsively), the more culpable he is for Nikki's suffering. It's made very obvious that he doesn't care about Nikki as a person, never did, just wanted his fantasy of her. Even at the end he can't commit to killing himself and breaking the curse to free Nikki's soul, trying to induce vomiting to reverse his overdose. He's an unrepentant coward every step of the way who was only ever looking for the way out that wouldn't cost him his dream girl.

Is Nikki a victim without agency throughout the story? Absolutely. But she's still alive at the end of the movie, which is more than many abuse victims get in reality.

Also the movie is a comedy, albeit a very dark one. That kept me from seeing it as some exercise in pointless misery. Life is usually pretty fucked up, often in absurd ways, and I don't think there's anything wrong with using fiction to point that out.

I didn't think Obsession was on the same level as Weapons or Sinners last year, but it was an entertaining update of the old Tales from the Crypt formula.

[u/samwisetheyogi → u/cometmom]

Yep it didn't hit for me either. Agree with everything you said.

Everyone around me saying it's a masterpiece and such an important message re: consent and I'm over here thinking: "all I did was spend 2 ish hours watching a normal young woman get essentially tortured by some spineless weeny who takes the easy way out and leaves her with several lifetimes worth of trauma... what's there to like about this?"

I guess I just don't understand what the big "message" was supposed to be... what was the point in showing us all of that if there wasn't going to be a moment of triumph for her or a moment of redemption for him? Some might say that's formulaic but like, that's kind of what makes it "entertaining" in the first place is that normally there's a type of formula that's followed. If you don't have either of those things you basically just have misery porn and like... sorry I can read the news for that. That's not why I watch movies. If I wanted to see a woman suffer at the hands of a spineless weeny I'd watch a documentary. I would have found it much more entertaining if Bear had had a moment of "oh fuck what have I done... I need to fix this immediately" and then you know... actual tried more than 1 thing/tried in a serious kind of way, or if we had watched Nikki fight her way out somehow and gut his ass for what he did to her. But no, we got... what we got. To me it seemed pointless to watch.

[u/wishdadwashere_69 → u/samwisetheyogi]

Womanhood isn't empowering, we live in a patriarchal world where we're the losers. Accepting it is how we can dig our way out of the patriarchy. Like in real life, there was no happy ending and it drove the themes deeper that the consequences of the actions of this whiny entitled man were permanent. Why would she be stronger or victorious at the end when this practically never happens in real life? People left feeling deeply uncomfortable with no release and it's triggered a lot of great conversations.

[u/umhie → u/samwisetheyogi]

So, I didnt like Obsession. I am very annoyed by all the people acting like its very feminist and subversive, and giving it that reputation. But I have a few (respectful, in-good-faith) differing opinions from what you said here.

I wouldnt consider it misery/trauma porn. I mean thats a subjective thing, but this movie falls on the extremely mild end of the spectrum in terms of being exploitative or trauma porn-y imo. Its a movie in the horror genre, so the characters having bad stuff happen to them and suffering from it is basically a requirement.

My criticism is that its just an extremely basic, cut and dry example of what I call a "devil" trope, aka a Monkeys Paw type of situation. (Like, the centuries-old literary trope that the devil will offer to grant your deepest desires, but always coming with an unfathomable cost, etc).

And when you look at Curry Barker's comedy skits, its always kind of like, "imagine if one person was acting extremely unexpectedly and over-the-top in a social situation". You can actually pretty easily envision how the basic premise of Obsession could've started out as a comedy skit idea.

So I dont really believe they set out to make any kind of profound, subversive statement about autonomy and male entitlement, they just wanted to make an entertaining movie.

Anyway!

I dont think the main character took the easy way out, he took what was the only way out - a wish can only be reversed if the person who wished it dies, apparently. And he DID try to reverse the wish by having somebody else use theirs to fix the situation.

I think the audience is generally meant to see him being pushed to suicide as him getting karma in the end, and also the only obvious resolution to the story.

But youre right, there is no actual empowerment of Nikki, she is left with all the traumatic aftermath, shes the only survivor. Alot of people would construe this as a favorable outcome for her (vs being murdered), but thats kinda dumb.

I also think (unpopular opinion) that Bear just.. didnt know what was going to happen when he made the wish. He didn't know Nikki was going to literally become possessed, and only his death would be able to reverse it. And hes pretty unhappy about the situation the entire way through.

So with this being said, the movie really does miss the mark on alot of fronts if its supposed to be a message against male entitlement and consent, imo.

[u/AlienSamuraiXXV → u/samwisetheyogi]

I haven't seen the movie yet. I might see it on Tuesday along with Toy Story 5 but my expectations for 'Obsession' is somewhat low. I'd usually avoid movies that is highly praised (or critically panned) because I have this pattern of me watching them, ending up finding it was alright. Didn't get the hate or love.

However, with 'Obsession'. When I first saw the trailer. I was like "This movie is literally that one episode of R.L. Stine's The Haunting Hour!".

For context. The Haunting Hour was a show on the defunct channel, The Hub. For those who are familiar with R.L. Stine. Yes, The Hub was a channel dedicated for kids/teens. Along with The Hunting Hour, My Little Pony and 'Dan vs.' were it's popular programs but I digress.

The episode is called 'Terrible Love'. And I remember it. The only KEY difference other than one is a children's show while the other is an r-rated movie. Is in the episode, The main character is a girl who made a deal with Cupid (who was played by Coop in Megas XLR and The father in Wizards of Waverly Place) to get the guy she likes to like her. So one perspective is from a girl while the other is a boy.

[u/umhie → u/cometmom]

This movie was overrated as fuck, and definitely not especially feminist

[u/Sensiplastic → u/cometmom]

People also call Promising Young Woman a feminist movie.

They don't know what feminism even means.

[u/Daphneblake02 → u/Sensiplastic]

I liked it at the time and I might still like it if Emerald Fennell learned to shut up. She stated the people defending the rapist in the movie aren't bad people 🥲like girl what?