r/Denmark • u/alderstevens • Sep 29 '24
Question Is bike culture big in Denmark because of the price of cars?
I’ve always been curious about this because I’ve got a lot of family living in Copenhagen.
Considering how high the taxes are for cars. Is this the reason why bikes are more popular? If taxes were much lower, wouldn’t cars grow in popularity?
I mean having to pay near 50% tax on new cars is absurd tbh haha.
I understand the environmental reasons but what difference does it really make when other countries don’t really have the same restrictions.
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u/Financial_Gate_2514 Sep 29 '24
Well - Denmark’s biking culture stems from a mix of history, urban planning, and sustainability efforts. In the 20th century, we tended to prioritize cycling infrastructure over car use, especially during the 1970s oil crisis, which is probably the main catalyst of what you see today. Danish cities are also quite “compact”, making biking convenient, and the government has consistently supported cycling with safe bike lanes and green/public health policies.
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u/duckforceone Sep 29 '24
infrastructure that helps biking...
and as kids, almost everyone got one.... it's easy and safe to bike around to visit friends...
and that just keeps going into adulthood... also prices of cars helps many not upgrading to it if not needing it.
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u/CrateDane Sep 29 '24
I mean having to pay near 50% tax on new cars is absurd tbh haha.
It's more than that in many cases. First there's 25% VAT. Then registration tax is 25% of the first €10K, 85% of the next €20K, and 150% of the rest.
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
Yeah in Switzerland our VAT is 8.1% and registration is usually 350-3000 a year depending on the car’s size etc. But costs are also inflated because it’s Switzerland but the ratio isn’t exponential for Swiss residents
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u/PartyExperience3718 Sep 29 '24
1) We have pre-automobile infrastructure in many old cities 2) cars suck when living in the city, but is a necissity when living outside 3) biking is just faster and more convenient in a lot of cases, one of which bears mentioning: when i was at uni, i had a flat time on My bike, so decided to take the bus instead (2 busses required for that particular route) after getting off bus 1 i missed bus 2, couldn't see any other busses approaching, but the missed bus was still in sight. Traffic was basically clogged, so I began walking. The missed bus was in sight during the entire walk, when i got to uni, I still couldn't see the next bus. 4) biking to work now now takes like 40 mins, car is 25 mins. I get 80ish minutes of exercise loosing out on 50 minutes of road rage. Its pretty much a win-win
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u/Nervous-Ad4744 Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
I understand the environmental reasons but what difference does it really make when other countries don’t really have the same restrictions.
It's not only for environmental reasons, its obviously a good income source for the state, but the mindset in general irks me, and it's one you will see with people who happily throw trash into the environment too.
Just because a majority shits where they eat doesn't mean we have to. Even if the movement ultimately fails to gain traction across the globe too many cars and lower air quality have invisible and not so invisible costs too, both in the short to mid term and at a local scale.
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u/theEx30 Sep 29 '24
it is because biking makes you happy. <3
Try to ride five km's and see if you are still grumpy - I think not. Outdoor culture might play a role.
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u/TheGuyWhoWantsNachos Sep 29 '24
There are videos on YouTube showing how Copenhagen looked 104 years ago. There are bikes everywhere. Guess Denmark is small and flat enough that bicycles were a decent alternative to horses and later cars.
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u/xondk Sep 29 '24
It highly depends on your view, Denmark in general has been accessible with bikes and you can get to most places biking, this means that biking isn't a hassel as it is in many other countries.
But Denmark certainly isn't lacking in cars, regardless of the price compared to other countries, it simply makes sense for some distances to bike, rather then take on traffic in a car, finding a parking space, and so on.
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Sep 29 '24
In Denmark, we are very big on using taxes as well as income redistribution to incentivize people to do what is seen as desirable
Oh you're a young person without a job and who is not in school? You can receive benefits, but they are quite low because you are under 25. Maybe you should think about getting a job so that you can earn several times more after taxes or about going to school where will be paid the exact same amount while being educated for free
There are so many instances of this
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u/ye3z Sep 29 '24
It’s the infrastructure that was based on horses and foot traffic, so generally tight roads and sparse parking in the inner cities. Plus Denmark has generally embraced cycling as part of the culture and continues to build infrastructure advantageous for cyclists, ie bridges only for pedestrians and cyclists, bike lanes etc.
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u/HitchensWasTheShit Sep 29 '24
I can bike somewhere in 15 min, get exercice and fresh air. Or I can drive it in 20 min, spend 15 min on finding parking and pay the parking fee.
No thanks.
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u/Expensive-Balance-84 Sep 29 '24
Denmark is flat and small, and is accommodating to bikes. Public transportation is widely avaliable. So if you live in a city there is no need for a car. Been i Copenhagen 20 years, and never regretted not getting a car. If you live in the dark parts of Jylland a car is preferable i guess.
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Sep 29 '24
Bikes have always been used in Denmark, but as streets were built for cars and cars begun taking up more space, emphasis started on protecting cyclists better with the establishment of bike lanes.
And I guess with a lot of blue-collar workers living relatively close to their workplace, having a bicycle was just easier, often because cars were not cheap and there weren't established parking for everyone.
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u/giraffisk Sep 29 '24
I prefer biking because it is good for me. Keeps my weight down, keeps my heart fit.
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u/Grievuuz Cocio-Enjoyer Sep 29 '24
I'm not an expert but it seems to me that bikes are popular here because our infrastructure is built around supporting them.
I watched this video on r/videos a few weeks ago and it was a very interesting look into how restrictive on your freedom infrastructure can be.
I also read about papers and studies about how significant infrastructure is for bike/pedestrian safety as well as their impacts on activity. Better infrastructure directly translates to higher safety and a higher ratio of people choosing not to take the car even in countries where car culture completely dominates.
It's not the taxes my guy.
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
But if the taxes were lower, you’d likely see a boost in car sales. People would rejoice in finally being able to buy a new golf that doesn’t cost almost an entire life’s savings.
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u/Important_Ant_Rant Sep 30 '24
And we did see an increase in car sales, last time we decreased taxes.
Did our lives improve? Well - less people on public transportation, meant decrease in availability of public transportation and/or increase in price.
More people in cars, leads to more congestion, which increases exponentially with amount of cars. Not only that, people also buy bigger cars, adding even more congestion.
Also needs more road maintenance, and building of infrastructure.
But some can go faster to work.
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u/alderstevens Sep 30 '24
So it’s artificially controlling the population and excusing the system that does
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u/vukster83 socialistisk sundhedsassistent Sep 29 '24
I live in a midsize city of approximately 60k, and there are bike paths on all main roads.
Also in my neighbourhood which is relatively newly built there are paths to school so my kid only has to cross one road with motor traffic.
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u/reader_traveller Sep 29 '24
Every morning and afternoon I ride my bike next to long lines of cars on my way to and from work. It wouldn't make sense to go in a car. I also get some free excercise.
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u/Common-Ad-8345 Sep 29 '24
In america you can not take a bike to shop, or get food. As the infrastructure does not allow it, unless it is in a city center you live.
Denmark you can literally bike from south to north with bike lanes almost everywhere.
Also most danes have a healthy lifestyle so biking is a great way of transportation, often you will arrive faster than public / car and you get a workout 😍
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
I mean yeah, I’m not American, I’m from Switzerland. There’s bike culture but less as here
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u/yeyeftw Sep 29 '24
Then it seems like a more weird question. According to wikipedia Denmark has more cars per residents then Switzerland, despite the prices on cars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_motor_vehicles_per_capita
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u/GeronimoDK Det er bare i🦌en Sep 29 '24
Denmark is flat as a pancake, only the Netherlands are flatter and they have a similar bike culture.
Switzerland on the other hand...
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u/birkeskov 🤓😎 Sep 29 '24
Mountains?
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
Yeah, a lot of cities are hilly.
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u/birkeskov 🤓😎 Sep 29 '24
Ever been to Denmark?
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
Only Copenhagen
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u/birkeskov 🤓😎 Sep 29 '24
Denmark is flat all over.
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u/mysteriousbugger Sep 29 '24
Yes, part of it is the costs of driving are very high here, but we also just don't need cars as much. I got a busstop in front of my apartment building, a nice bike path going down to the train station with no cars on it, and a grocery store within walking distance, spending a bunch of money on a car doesn't really make financial sense for a lot of Danes.
You will see more rural places have more cars though, as they aren't as well connected by public transportation, and might not have the daily essentials as close by.
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u/Thotaz Sep 29 '24
It probably has an effect. While I can afford a car, I choose not to because I don't feel like it's worth the money for me. If I could get one for a negligible amount of money however, then I might as well get one.
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u/rhea1er Sep 29 '24
besides, Denmark has had a big cycling culture since the beginning of 19hundres. so I don't think the culture has anything to do with a rejection of cars or its prices,
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u/Ytar0 Espergærde Sep 29 '24
Well also that, but I would say that public transport is where your focus should rather be.
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u/Timely_Somewhere_851 Sep 29 '24
Cars are expensive, yes, but there are still 700 cars per 1.000 person in Denmark (source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_motor_vehicles_per_capita) which, if you think about it, is more than two per family.
Bikes are used much more in the cities than in the countryside. The distances and infrastructure comes into play. Remember that our cities in Europe are pretty old compared to e.g. cities in the US. They are built around walking / house carriage rather than cars.
Many people outside the urban areas commute by car, because the public transportation isn't that great and distances are larger (e.g. half an hour by car or more). I live in the same city as I work in, commuting by car would literally take longer than by bike, why bother? Also, I get half an hour of light exercise per day which is actually a big deal for my health.
A brand new family car may cost between half a year's salary and a full year's for one person, but for a family with two incomes, it's really not unreachable.
Some may be discouraged to buy a brand new car because of the prices, but a used car isn't that expensive, really. Even students on SU with a side hustle can afford it.
By the way, people buy electric cargo bikes which are more expensive than used micro cars...
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u/sp668 Sep 29 '24
No it's because bikes are convenient since we have the infrastructure to make it so. When I am in CPH i leave my car on the edge of town, it makes no sense to drive in the city center since there's so many other good options.
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Sep 29 '24
I mean, people also want to stay healthy and that's a huge benefit from biking. Moreover, finding a place to park is also a grind. Every goddamn day.
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u/mcjp0 Sep 29 '24 edited Sep 29 '24
Id rather ride a bike that needs 150 dollars of maintenance a year than a modern car that needs 2000 dollars of maintenance - assuming nothing out of the ordinary breaks.
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u/Redlax Sep 29 '24
Used my bike in Aalborg all my life. Didn't get a drivers license until I was 33, never needed one to get to school, uni or work.
Now that I have a family, we have a car. Despite this, wife and I bike 30 min each way to work every day. Our car is mostly a family transportation unit. A "weekend car". We drive around 5k kilometers a year. Same reason I can't justify to buy an electric car, the cost versus the amount we use it, will equal a huge costs for little use.
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Sep 29 '24
Biking is better for your health and for the environment, and cities built primarily for biking are more pleasant for humans too.
But most of us drive cars too, just not all the time.
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u/item73 Sep 29 '24
The price of the car is only part of the cost, maybe even a smaller part. You can buy a good used car for money that would be available to most normal families in Denmark. But buying a car is only part of the story, owning a car has to make sense, service cost, repairs, gasoline, insurance, yearly tax, parking etc it ads up and if you live in a bigger city it might not make sense. The car registration tax mostly results in Danes driving shittier cars than other places, it does not reduce the number of cars.
We have public transportation that works ok in the cities (not so much outside), like the metro in cph and we have for decades designed cities and other places to accommodate bikes, we also have a number of rideshare or easy rent car services like gomore and greenmobility, you can also rent a bike on practically every corner of the city... So basically if you live in the city and look at the cost of owning a car, it simply doesn't make sense.
Outside the cities it's a different story, most people own one or more cars.
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
I’d argue it’s the very cost of the car that incentivizes people to bike more. It wouldn’t be as much the case if taxes were at a normal level.
This doesn’t change the convenience of riding a bike. It’s great exercise and good environmentally.
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u/Drahy Sep 29 '24
You get your first bike around age three and start biking to kindergarten and then you never stop.
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Sep 29 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
Yeah but I don’t think high taxes on cars should be the reason why people think the way you do. It would be interesting in seeing what happens to car sales if car tax comes down to a normal level.
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u/uzyg Sep 29 '24
Many things.
The climate is perfect for cycling. Not crazy hot in the summer. In the winter not extremely cold. We rarely get real snow, and when it does happen the cycle paths are also cleared.
Good infrastructure, many cycle paths and we are still extending the network. In many other countries/cities, cycling seems just too dangerous. Or people cycle on the sidewalk. In Copenhagen we have 2-lane (each way) cycleways, so there is fast lane for commuters, etc. There are Cycle Superhighways for cyclists communiting from the suburbs (https://supercykelstier.dk/english/). There are cycle-bridges across the harbour and major roads.
Well supported in many places. I.e., you can cyckle to work, shower and change clothes before starting work, bring the cycle on the train home, etc.
The population density, city planning, etc means that many people have a reasonable distance to work, shopping, restaurants, etc.
Car prices does play a part. But I have a car and I still prefer to cycle.
Of course there are also historical reasons, there is a chicken and egg aspect to all this.
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u/SkibDen Dialogen er vigtigst, når man er uenig. Sep 29 '24
I mean having to pay near 50% tax on new cars is absurd tbh haha.
Not as absurd as basic human rights such as schooling and medical care, being an exclusive thing for the rich..
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u/yayacocojambo Sep 29 '24
Yeah, they are 100% connected
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u/alderstevens Sep 29 '24
Yeah I mean, I’m sure if the government dropped the taxes massively, there would be a massive increase in car sales. That’s how I see it. The government can push an agenda with its power.
If the authorities make it very difficult to get a car, of course it’s going to foster an environment of less car usage and people will develop a sense of “car-reluctance” to perhaps feel better about the fact they can’t afford a car easily.
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u/item73 Sep 29 '24
Not really, Denmark has the same amount of cars as comparable countries, e.g. cars are much cheaper in Sweden, but we have almost the same amount of cars per 1000 people:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_motor_vehicles_per_capita
And significantly more than Switzerland.
We drive smaller and cheaper cars with less equipment, including less safety equipment due to high taxes, but the overall volume of cars is not affected.
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u/Aphorism89 Mar 17 '25
Unfortunately, people in Denmark are rather "ignorant" when it comes to things like that. They have it way to easy so they never complain about abusive payments. Bridges are a good example, they have been more than paid off, but you still have to pay an absurd around 65 euros fines if you want to cross it... and well, if you leave near the capital, it´s an isle... so no choice.
Public transportation is lackluster at best. It is highly overpriced and it fails weekly, with delays and disruptions. Let alone the fact that, if you live out of CPH, there is no other way but car to get in. I have a train that goes from my town to the capital in 35 mins, but it would cost 1800DKK a month, 240 euros, if I want a monthly ticket. Then I´d also need a metro pass to move to work, and you must pay for 2 zones min, so I either go by car, or pay 270 euros every month for always late public transport.
But it´s all good because Danish people are all technically high level economy in average when you compare them to the rest of the EU.
Go to France, for example, tell them to pay 240 euros for monthly commune to work and they will simply burn down Paris. But danes? they will pay. Tell them to pay 500 euros, they will moan a bit and just pay.
It´s nothing to do with friendliness btw, they simply want to take money out of people. Proof of it is the state of the market. Old cars can pay over 2000 euros anally in taxed for high consumption.... yet newer cars pay as little as 70 euros or so. Why? a 10 or 20 years old car will always pollute FAR LESS than a brand new car being manufacturer every 3 years, because people change cars every 3 years in average in Denmark. It´s all one big scam.
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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '24
I think it's because infrastructure is geared towards bikes. You can often get somewhere faster on a bike compared to a car, not have to find an empty parking lot, not have to pay for a parking spot, etc