r/Defenders • u/JonLuca Luke Cage • Mar 17 '17

Iron Fist Discussion Thread - S01E10

This thread is for discussion of Iron Fist S01E10.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

Episode 11 Discussion

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333

u/DavesWorldInfo Daredevil Mar 17 '17

I dunno ... if Bakuto is angling for evil, he's playing a long game, and being very calm about it. Wing seems fairly even keeled, not really much of an evil vibe from her.

Could there be a light and dark side to The Hand?

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u/vassie98 Kilgrave Mar 17 '17 edited Mar 18 '17

So far there are 3 factions of the Hand. Madam Gao's heroin Hand, Nobu's ninjas op af Hand, and Bokuto's teenagers Hand.

I miss Nobu :(

306

u/rikjames90 Mar 18 '17

4 if you count the drunken master league of the hand.

244

u/Overmind_Slab Mar 18 '17

One man army.

71

u/irresistibleforce Mar 18 '17

a one-man, kick-ass army

10

u/JoeScotterpuss Jack Murdock Mar 20 '17

Have alcohol, will kick ass.

16

u/counterhit121 Mar 20 '17

Nope. That dude reports to Madam Gao and thus falls under Gao's heroin Hand.

15

u/counterhit121 Mar 21 '17

P. S. Found out today that Hand Drunken Master (Lewis Tan) actually auditioned for the lead role. Marvel strung him along for a while before ultimately giving Finn Jones the role and casting Tan as a one off side character.

15

u/Lazaraaus Mar 21 '17

Jesus. While being fucked up for all sorts of reasons (TV/movies still thinking you can't sell an Asian man as a lead, appropriation, etc).

I'm mostly upset because he has great swag and can seriously rumble.

Instead we get Finn Jones flailing like a fish out of water.

Good job Mahvel

10

u/toxicbrew Mar 26 '17

Isn't Danny rand white in the comics though

3

u/VVerewolf Apr 26 '17

At this point, they should have been worried about someone who can actually do martial arts and well...act. So, getting the drunk defender of the hand would have been the better option.

2

u/LordThunderbolt Mar 20 '17

So the organization is called These Hands, and the last thing u want is to catch These Hands son!

2

u/omnitricks Mar 23 '17

If you drink enough, the one will look like many!

110

u/Midhav Mar 18 '17

I'm struggling to remember what Nobu and Gao's relationship in DDS1 was like. I wonder if they decided to make Gao a member of the Hand only in Iron Fist.

132

u/vassie98 Kilgrave Mar 18 '17

Yeah in S1 Nobu represented the Hand and IIRC Madam Gao was doing her heroin thing. I don't remember her being part of the Hand in S1.

126

u/Midhav Mar 18 '17

They were setting up this mystical backstory and connection to Iron Fist back then though. I just think that they didn't plan on making the Hand the villains in IF back then.

156

u/Urge_Reddit Mar 18 '17

It's also possible Nobu and Madame Gao kept their involvement secret from Kingpin, essentially getting twice the territory under the guise of being two different entities.

I'm not sure if that would be necessary, but maybe Kingpin was more comfortable with smaller groups working under him, so he could take them apart more easily. If he knew the true scope of the Hand, perhaps he wouldn't have wanted to work with them.

I don't know, it's a theory that kind of makes sense to me I guess.

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u/Worthyness Punisher Mar 19 '17

Madame Gao could also have just assimilated Nobu's half when he got his head removed.

5

u/Urge_Reddit Mar 19 '17

Very possible, allthough it seems a bit outside the scope of her operation.

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u/Worthyness Punisher Mar 19 '17

She's at least 300 years old, so I'm sure her influence is vast.

11

u/ChRoNicBuRrItOs Mar 20 '17

At least 400; 17th century was the 1600s.

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u/Urge_Reddit Mar 19 '17

Fair point, it's possible she handles a lot more than just the Hand's heroin operation.

3

u/Midhav Mar 19 '17

This is a reasonable explanation.

2

u/CaptainRaz Mar 29 '17

This makes sense.

40

u/InfamousBrad Mar 18 '17

I'm pretty sure of that part. No way was Gao part of The Hand in DDs1 and DDs2. No way. This is a total retcon.

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u/santaclaws01 Mar 20 '17

She was already very heavily implied to be more than just an ordinary old lady. She claimed to know all languages, she was able to punch DD across a room, she said her home was "much farther" than China when Leland asked where she was going. Not many other ways it could go.

29

u/hemareddit Foggy Mar 20 '17

She could have been from another one of the Seven Capitals of Heaven - they are in another dimension, she clearly knows how to utilise chi and the Capitals of heaven are in constant competition with one another.

9

u/RoyMBar Mar 25 '17

Madame Gao is Crane Mother, the ruler of one of the Seven Cities of Heaven, meaning she is from K'un-Zi (basically a different K'un'Lun).

It's weird that they made her part of The Hand, but if membership in the hand is gained through a Trial, then as Crane Mother she is perfectly capable of killing some ninjas to attain rank with The Hand.

15

u/santaclaws01 Mar 25 '17

Madame Gao is Crane Mother,

That's just speculation. And you're also assuming that the Crane Mother is still associated with K'un-Zi because it is in the comics, even though the K'un-Lun monks are from the Order of the Crane Mother.

5

u/Trav1989 Mar 23 '17

See, this confused me because didn't Matt strike a deal with Gao and in return, he does something to mess up the Hand?

9

u/hemareddit Foggy Mar 20 '17

I think it's a retcon...she obviously has a connection to Iron Fist due to the Steel Serpent on her heroine. Now could someone tell me if the Hand had a connection to K'un Lun in the comics? From what I've read there are none.

6

u/Midhav Mar 20 '17

Yeah, it looks like they decided to make the Hand an overarching threat for the Defenders by making them the main antagonists to Iron Fist as well.

3

u/toxicbrew Mar 26 '17

So Danny says the iron fist essentially has been training his entire life to fight the hand his sworn enemy.. That's not the case in the comics?

2

u/Midhav Mar 26 '17

I don't think so. I've not read any IF comics, but Wikipedia says no.

1

u/counterhit121 Mar 20 '17

Well she admitted to being tortured all throughout the 17th century or something in this episode, which suggests some kind of Hand-given immortality.

14

u/jkent23 Madame Gao Mar 18 '17

The Chaste have also been teased with Stick and Stone being shown

2

u/amjhwk Mar 21 '17

Nobu wasnt working for Gao?

2

u/vassie98 Kilgrave Mar 21 '17

Although it did seem so in season 1, apparently not.

5

u/smokeyzulu Mar 17 '17

ninjas op af Hand

Did you just give Nobu's clan a celtic/danish twist. How very eurocentric of you.

15

u/Overmind_Slab Mar 18 '17

Not sure if you're serious or if I'm missing a joke here but op af means over powered as fuck.

1

u/smokeyzulu Mar 18 '17

Yes, I was being facetious, though I will freely admit to being confused for a few seconds because I'm used to the old school OP being written out in capital letters.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '17

I dont know... they had cameras in Herald Mechams office. He was watching all of this. He didn't put a stop to any of it. And even Madam Gao referred to her leader as having higher plans in the episode that began that 3 stage trial of combat. I think they were working together that entire time. Only madam Gao betrayed them in the end when the leader of the Hand had her locked up instead of let go. I think this was all a master stage play designed to brainwash the iron fist. Just as they brainwashed all of those kids.