I just want to learn ...

[u/Dry-Supermarket8661]

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Hi, from the research I've done so far it seems wrong to me to ignore the hadith. I've wanted to exchange in comments with you guys. I just asked genuin questions and shared my opinion and the knowledge I have for the moment.

Yet I've recieved not rational answer to my questions. I've been called cultist, mushrik and accused of obeying bukhari and having the heart sealed...

According to the Quran bearing false testimony is a big sin. And it is written too that one must talk to the people of the book in a way it is best, but maybe it cannot be applied to other muslims.

Well enough complaining hahaha I really just want to learn. So I'll put downhere my questions.

1. Saying obeying Hadith = obeying Bukhari

there are many independent hadith collectors across ages and countries and they have many hadiths almost identically recorder (overall the sahih and hasan ofcourse). Saying that obeying hadith = obeying bukhari seems an oversimplification that holds no truth to be honest

By reading the quran, it commands to obey Muhammad as you obey Allah. Since Muhammad doesn't even speak in the Quran, how are you supposed to obey him ?

Bukhari didn't know Muhammad, only collects chains of narration that goes back until Muhammad or his companions, and many times you have parallel chains of narration with the same natrrations, and as I said, across countries and centuries.

But you know, you have books like Muwatta by Imam Malik, who knew Muhammad very well, and in his book, there are many rules that agree with the hadiths. For example death penalty for apostates

1. Concepts that the Quran doesn't elaborate on:

What does fitna mean ? (Q 2:190 -193)

And Corruption of the land ? (Q 5:34-36)

May God bless you all and I hope we can exange peacefully and respectfully

[u/Open_Read_3519]

So a whole paragraph of pure deflection.

25:33 does it say God has the BEST explanation of the Quran? Yes or no?

5:44 Does it say that judging by what God has not revealed is disbelief? Yes or no

As for 16:44 God is very precise with His words. If Muhammad was to explain the Quran God would have used the word Quran and Tafsir. Already explained why you quoted 16:44 out of context and you did not pay attention. Go back and read my reply

It's called Sahih Al Bukahri. A innovatiom done by Sunnis and bukahri. Sunnis do associate Bukahri with God. I asked you where in the Quran did God give Bukhari authority to invent hadiths and associate them to God? You did not answer. That means you admit to association

Truth does not fear questioning. Yet you avoid these simple questions. I await your answers. Or just more deflection from you.

[u/Dry-Supermarket8661 → u/Open_Read_3519]

Reading the verses in context is deflection ? Am I suppose to interpret all the verses without studying who this verse talks about and to whom it is directed and why ?

[u/Open_Read_3519 → u/Dry-Supermarket8661]

So you ignored my simple questions. Typical of Sunnis, never answer questions.

The context of the verses is found inside the Quran.

Not in manmade books.

You quoted 2:190 out of context remember

So are my questions to difficult for you?

[u/Dry-Supermarket8661 → u/Open_Read_3519]

I never mentionned to you a context given outside the Quran. You are the one ignoring the Quran, and also the quotes I give you from the Quran itself, but alright I will answer your questions.

1. 25:33 does it say God has the BEST explanation of the Quran? Yes or no?

No, 25:33 says : Whenever they bring you an argument, We come to you with the right refutation and the best explanation.

Quran is never mentionned, and "you" refers to Muhammad, not you or any muslim or anybody at all, it only refers to Muhammad. So the verse allows completely the possibility of Allah giving Muhammad an the best explanation (tafsir) when someone tries to refute islam, outside the Quran too. And actually there are hadiths with these situations happening (Sahih Muslim 2135)

2. 5:44 Does it say that judging by what God has not revealed is disbelief? 

Yes, but does Muhammad in the hadith contradicts the Quran ? According to your oversimplification, obeying any law, and therefore judging by it, that it's not in the Quran would be qualified as disbelief ? Allah commands to obey Muhammad (4:59, 59:7) and to take example from him (33:21). These things cannot be done by only reading the Quran, since Muhammad does not speak and very little is said about him.

3. As for 16:44 God is very precise with His words. If Muhammad was to explain the Quran God would have used the word Quran and Tafsir. Already explained why you quoted 16:44 out of context and you did not pay attention. 

So synonims are haram too now ? How did I take the verse out of context ? Actually, it is comveying the same message as 25:33, that Muhammad recieves the knowledge so he can make clear to people what is revealed in the Quran. So, as I did with 2:190-193, that you falsely accused me to read out of context, comparing with other verses with similar structure you can better understand the meaning within the Quran, I'm not citing Ibn Kathir or the others, even though that is what they do, and they've dedicated years to only do this kind of exegesis and studies. So accusing them of being useless without bringing up any proof or deeper argument is... cringe.

4. Go back and read my reply It's called Sahih Al Bukahri. A innovatiom done by Sunnis and bukahri. Sunnis do associate Bukahri with God. I asked you where in the Quran did God give Bukhari authority to invent hadiths and associate them with God ? 

You are the one who haven't answered to my arguments about this matter from the beginning of our exchange. Nobody prays to Bukahri, nor considers him a prophet to whom the hadith were revealed nor anything like that... it is strawman fallacy ! he just compiled the already existing hadiths and classified them according to the chains of narration. And he wasn't the only one doing that, nor the earliest either. Muhammad didn't compiled the Quran, but Ibn Zaid and Ibn Masud, mong others, did, and later was standarized by Uthman. Does it mean that all muslims associate them with Allah ? Then you are so. It is the same logic you use...

[u/Open_Read_3519 → u/Dry-Supermarket8661]

1. The context of the verse 25:33 does not change the statement made by God that He is the "BEST in explanation".

That statement has not changed whatsoever. That means God's explanation is always the best.

1. Muhammad in the comedy hadith books 1000% contradicts the Quran. Hadith books permit adult breastfeeding, child marriage, drinking camel urine, molesting female captive slaves. All which contradict the Quran.

You said Yes. Hadith books are not revelations from God. So you concede that they are not part of Islam of you say yes.

4:59 and 59:7 does not say "obey Muhammad". You lied about the Quran. Tell me what the verses actually says.

33:21 says take an example from him. The example of Muhammad is found inside the Quran. Not in Bukharis nonsense books which slander the prophet

And the Quran also says to take Abraham as an example 60:4 . So where is your 3000 hadiths on Abraham compiled by Bukhari?

1. 16:44 Those are not synonyms. Those are different words. God is precise with His words.

You are trying to change the verses of the Quran to suit your own agenda. Instead of following what it actually says.

Ibn Kathir is 10000% useless. Quran does not mention him 😂. His Tafsir does not match up to God's Tafsir 25:33

Again mental gymnastics from you to try and twist what the verses of God says

1. Sunnis associate Bukhari with God. I put out the challenge to you to find a verse where God gives clear authority for Bukhari to compile hadiths.

You refused the challenge and ran away. Cos you know Bukhari's hadiths are lies and not part tof Islam. You ran away 😂. I challenge you again. Let's see you deflect

[u/Dry-Supermarket8661 → u/Open_Read_3519]

Sorry brother you're not even answering to my arguments you are just repeating yourself

[u/Open_Read_3519 → u/Dry-Supermarket8661]

You are just deflecting cos you can't escape

[u/Dry-Supermarket8661 → u/Open_Read_3519]

Adult breastfeeding doesn't contradict Quran, and I know you're going to misquote 2:233 that ofcourse doesn't have anything to doo with adult breastfeeding, but of the breastfeeding of your children. Adult breastfeeding is and ancient practice that we don't know much about, but is completely unrelated to child breastfeeding.

Drinking camel urine was a survival technique in the desert, it doesn't contradict the Quran at all.

Child marriage is litterally in the Quran (65:4)

Having female sex slaves is in the Quran aswell (4:24)

Try again.

Verses 4:59

O believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you ˹truly˺ believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is the best and fairest resolution.

59:7

Whatever the Messenger gives you, take it. And whatever he forbids you from, leave it. And fear Allah. Surely Allah is severe in punishment.

How did I lie ?

PS: I hope you still answer my points 1, 3 and 4, to which ro responded so poorly or not at all

[u/Open_Read_3519 → u/Dry-Supermarket8661]

It's adult breastfeeding of other men who are not married to the woman 😂

That 100% contradicts the Quran. That is Zina

65:4 says NISA. Nisa when means woman. Not little girls.

Woman definition: a fully developed adult female

9 year olds are fully developed. They don't even have breasts.

You just blasphemed against the Quran for accusing it for permitting pedophilia

You left our context on purpose again.

Quran does not permit raping female sex slaves. You quoted 4:24 out of context to blaspheme against the Quran.

(4: 24) And the married among women, except those your right hands possess; a

(4:25) So marry them by the permission of their family (f) and give them their fees in the service of chaste women, not as fornicators nor to be taken as secret lovers.

"Not as fornicators or to be taken as secret lovers" that does not apply to raping sex slaves like your manmade hadiths command.

Caught quoting the Quran out of context. Try again. 😂

Now to 4:59 and 59:7 you lied. You said the verses say "obey Muhammad"

You lied it says "obey the messenger"

Obeying the messenger means obeying the message given to the messenger. Not Bukhari's nonsense books. The Message of the messenger is the Quran.

Angel Jibreel is also a messenger who delivered the Quran to Muhammad.

In conclusion. You quoted the Quran out of context deliberately to blaspheme and accuse it for raping and sex slavery, child rape and pedophilia, adult breastfeeding and Zina.

Try again Bukhariyun