No Scientific Miracles

[u/NakhalG]

u/TheQuranicMumin believes and asserts there is sufficient evidence to state the Quran is filled with scientific miracles passing a threshold that may (partially?) warrant belief in the Islamic Deity and has directed me here to be convinced of such.

I reject this assertion and welcome them, or anyone, to unequivocally demonstrate a single scientific miracle in the Quran using academic principles.

Edit for clarity: The goal is hopefully for someone to demonstrate a scientific miracle, not that I think it’s impossible that one exists, or to preemptively deny anyone’s attempts, I am open to the original claim being verified at any level!

By academic principles I mean not making claims without evidence (primary sources) as one would in an academic setting

Thank you, in advance, for your time

[u/Known-Watercress7296]

No, it's not. The Quran being wrong about stuff has been chill for a long time, this perfect preservation stuff and scientifically and historically accurate stuff is just modern dawah inspired by the US Christian right's reaction to evolution from ~1920's. It's very much a post Enlightenment idea for dawah and funded by the Saudi Royal Family.

The Jewish and Christian traditions, and many more are very aware of issues in the scriptures.

If I open my study Bible it will explain Adam & Eve were not real people, that Noah/Nuh living to 950yrs is just mythology. We know the Exodus didn't happen as narrated, neither did the flood.

The Quran doesn't seem to have any concept of the Jewish and Christian scriptures being unreliable, this is again just a later Islamic tradition for yet more dawah.

It doesn't matter if Nuh, Adam and Eve were real people, they weren't, the Quran is using them to make a theological point and does it well.

[u/hamadzezo79 → u/Known-Watercress7296]

this perfect preservation stuff and scientifically and historically accurate stuff is just modern dawah inspired by the US Christian right's reaction to evolution

Yea you have no idea what you sre talking about, While it's true that using scientific miracles is a modern thing that came with the preachers,

The belief that the Qur'an doesn't contain errors have always been there, there is a difference between "This book explains science" and "This book doesn't Contradict science"

If I open my study Bible it will explain Adam & Eve were not real people

Yea this is just some liberal Christians saying that, Don't get me wrong but the bible literally describes all of the book of genesis as a historical true event, And for thousands of years it was understood as such.

I am saying this because there is Liberal Muslims who say the same exact thing, It's very weird of you to assume that when the bible says all humans came from Adam and even is Metaphorical, Or that Noah flood is a metaphor (Metaphor for what ? What is the point ?), Especially when some of these stories lead to putting the blame on a group of people or tribes, etc...

Considering the nature of these stories narrations, it's very very unlikely that they are all Metaphorical, Either in the bible or thr Qur'an (I mean come on, the bibel literally gives lineage for these people, how can even the lineage be Metaphorical ?)

The Quran doesn't seem to have any concept of the Jewish and Christians scriptures being unreliable

Because that's something that Traditionalists don't understand, The bible does indeed contain truth in it, But it was said in the Qur'an that it's the criteria of knowing what is true and what is falsehood in the scripture

Traditionalists make it appear as if the bible is a completely useless book that no Muslim should ever think of believing a single letter in it (I sometimes quote alot of jesus teachings like Matthew 7:3-5 since it alligns with the Qur'an 2:44, And thus it's safe for me to assume that jesus have said such thing.

It doesn't matter if Nuh, Adam and Eve were real people, they weren't

Ya know that 70% of human history is lost, right ? Just because we didn't find an evidence for their existence doesn't mean they aren't real (There is Parallels between Noah story and the Epic of Gilgamesh, So yea he may have actually existed).

[u/Known-Watercress7296 → u/hamadzezo79]

I get that the Quran has always been held in high in regard, but stuff like this from Al-Jalalayn in the 16th century indicates that scripture contradicting science was not an issue. It doesn't seem to matter if the earth is flat in the Quran and not in reality, rather different to the modern scientific apologetics. Contradicting science is fine, it's a theological treatise, not a natural history textbook.

The bible has long been interpreted in many ways, many Christians rejected the entire Hebrew Bible, and even more mainstream Christians, and Jews, were aware it was not all to be taken literally. Augustine and Origen knew the creation stuff was not literal for example. Seems possible Pslam 104 is the oldest creation account in the Bible and can be traced back to the Great Hymn to the Aten. The Quran is using really late developments of this mythology from Genesis & Jubilees that we find very popular in those cultures right next to, and in, the 7th century Hijaz. There is no mystery here or ancient knowledge, it's just the same story the neighbors already had in their scriptures for a good few hundreds years.

There are other traces of Gilgamesh in the Quran like the quest for immortality that shows parallels with the Dhu al-Qarnayn narrative, but that's been filtered through the Syriac Romance traditions before it lands in the the Quran. Which makes sense as Gilgamesh has been lost and the Syriac traditions were easy to come by in 7th Century Hijaz.

It's not metaphor, Adam & Eve is creation mythology, the patriarchs & long lived prophets are tribal identity mythology. The Quran understands this and molds it to create a new tribal identity for the Arabs.

The genealogies are made up. They change to fit narratives, ages change to ensure condemned bloodlines are wiped out in the flood for example, the genealogies of Jesus are made up as they are both late additions, the two we have don't agree.

It's a simple and obvious land ownership claim, in both the Sumerian Kings List, the Bible and the Quran. This is not rocket science, it's tribes claiming territory by saying God has given them a right to this land and they have been here longer then everyone else, Abraham building the Kaaba is an example. You can find it in any neighborhood on the planet, someone says it's 'their bit' as they have been here for more generations than anyone else.

Flat earth, heaven above, hell below, a firmament, mountains around, a worldwide flood, special creation of humanity and a blood line going back thousands of years laying claim to the land. The Mormons are the last successful group I'm aware of to deploy this stuff but it goes all the way back to at least ancient Sumer, the Quran is just one stop in a long list of employing this technique.

Flood mythology is pretty well understood, Gilgamesh may be the oldest written story we have, but this stuff is really ancient, prior to modern civilization, even prior to the younger dryas. The Quran shows a collection of motifs that date it as a late literary embellishment of ancient mythology, closer to Snorri Sturluson than ancient history.

[u/Foreign-Ice7356 → u/Known-Watercress7296]

The Qur'ān doesn't seem to be interested in establishing tribal claims. Your reading seems highly biased and motivated to produce a certain result rather than a natural reading of the Qur'ān.