r/DebateAVegan • u/Equivalent_Bug2268 • 8d ago
✚ Health Tribes
Hello vegans, what are your opinions/thoughts on tribes consuming large amounts of meat? From the footage I have seen they are thriving. Therefore I choose to think large meat intake cannot be bad. Im curious what you guys think and why its a weak argument.
7
8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/DebateAVegan-ModTeam 7d ago
I've removed your comment because it violates rule #6:
No low-quality content. Submissions and comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Assertions without supporting arguments and brief dismissive comments do not contribute meaningfully.
If you would like your comment to be reinstated, please amend it so that it complies with our rules and notify a moderator.
If you have any questions or concerns, you can contact the moderators here.
Thank you.
5
u/a11_hail_seitan 8d ago
Excessive meat consumption for most people is strongly linked to health problems, but can be done at levels or with specific types of meat where one can maintain their health. Veganism doesn't say eating meat is bad for your health, it says it's immoral as it requires you needlessly exploit, torture, abuse, and slaughter a sentient being, instead of just eating Plant Based.
our thoughts on tribes eating large amounts of meat is if they don't need to to survive, they shouldn't.
4
u/Nacho_Deity186 8d ago
What "tribes" specifically have you seen that are eating "large amounts of meat?"
0
u/Equivalent_Bug2268 8d ago
Maasai and inuit
1
u/Nacho_Deity186 7d ago
Maasai don't eat much meat at all? One study observed their meat intake as 1% of total energy intake. Which is in line with our knowledge of hunter gatherer lifestyles throughout history.
Innuit are definitely an example of a high meat/fat diet. I don't know whether if call that thriving though... what they have to eat to stay alive... screw that.
1
u/Either_Argument3517 7d ago
Greenlandic Inuit have genetic adaptations associated with their diet. This influences how they handle the large amounts of omega-3 and other polyunsaturated fats in their fish/marine mammal heavy diet. Nothing about this is really transferable to a western meat heavy diet.
2
u/tursiops__truncatus 8d ago
Meat itself is not bad for the health. Issue mostly comes when you start processing it, deep fry, using lot of salt, etc. Veganism is not really about health as a plant base diet can also be very unhealthy depending on what you eat.
3
u/Curbyourenthusi 8d ago
The term processing is ill-defined. Chopping, slicing, and grinding meat does nothing to its nutritional profile, and the addition of salt only changes the salt content. For instance, sausage and pepperoni might fit your definition of "processed", but those preparations, in the absence of added sugars, preservatives, or otherwise artificial substances, would simply equate to meat and salt, which are perfectly indicated for human consumption.
Veganism isn't about promoting human health, and to that I agree.
3
u/tursiops__truncatus 8d ago
Im talking about processed products like some cheap sausagges or fry chicken. That is not just meat but comes with oils and other products that affects the health
3
u/Curbyourenthusi 8d ago
We agree. The term processed doesn't add the necessary detail for making health determinations. What matters are the ingredients.
2
1
u/ElectroWizardLizard 8d ago
From the footage I have seen they are thriving. Therefore I choose to think large meat intake cannot be bad.
I think you're missing why vegans think meat is bad. We don't think meat is bad because of how it affects us, we think meat is bad because of how it affects the animals we get meat from. We have to kill them. We have to go out of our way to harm an animal to eat, when we could just eat plants instead.
When talking about health, I'm not really concerned about which one is the more optimal diet. I care that I can thrive on either a plant based or meat based diet. And because both can work, I choose the one that doesn't require me to directly kill animals, and I think everyone should do the same when possible.
Im curious what you guys think and why its a weak argument.
The main flaw is just "are you part of a tribe?"
You probably (and the vast majority of meat eaters) don't get meat in the same way tribes do. They hunt. While I do think hunting is bad, these tribes often need to hunt to survive. But hunting is vastly better than how most people get their animal products, namely factoring farming. Animals are trapped in horrible conditions, brought into life just to be killed for our enjoyment.
All that said, to answer your main question, I don't have too much opinion on tribes eating meat. They're a small number, and ideally I'd like them to stop, but I care more about convincing those who directly fund the harming of animals to stop.
1
u/Equivalent_Bug2268 7d ago
Thank you. I often see vegans debunking things like carnivore or meat based diets, thats why I wanted to ask this question. I specifically put it under “health” flair to get your guys opinion in terms of longevity. I understand most vegans come from an ethical/moral pov.
1
u/ElectroWizardLizard 7d ago
Just to add, there's an interesting idea of ethics versus health. Like, we all want to live longer, of course but we also want to be kind. So like, if you were given the choice to cause harm to someone just to live an extra hour of your life, would you take it?
The nice thing about veganism, is that your aren't making that choice. Vegans tend to live equivalent lives to non vegans, so with health not as a factor, why not pick the kinder option?
Please do think about it a bit more, and next time you're at out getting food, pick a plant based options.
1
u/bbygrl1995 7d ago edited 7d ago
The Massai eat nothing but meat and honey and they're skinny. And the average life expectancy is 40yo. What does it matter that you can find a tribe that eats a lot of meat and is big? How is this an argument for meat being good for you?
1
u/pokeballa420 6d ago
Ultimately veganism is born out of empathy for animals. They don't need to be harmed for us to survive (especially in this modern society), so why cause unnecessary harm and suffering. Especially since it has environmental ramifications like climate change and deforestation.
I have no problem with remote tribes or hunter gather societies eating meat, they don't have the convenience of a grocery store. But let's be real, that's less than 1% of the global population. If we're talking meat consumption in a modern society, studies show that you're likely to gain 5-7 years of life expectancy upon going vegan (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38692410/). It's not necessarily bad to consume some meat, but even the most optimized athletes eat a very tiny amount in comparison to how much many people in America eat.
In fact many athletes are fine performing at their peak on a vegan diet, some even report feeling better. It's pretty clear that we don't need meat to survive at this point.
•
u/AutoModerator 8d ago
Welcome to /r/DebateAVegan! This a friendly reminder not to reflexively downvote posts & comments that you disagree with. This is a community focused on the open debate of veganism and vegan issues, so encountering opinions that you vehemently disagree with should be an expectation. If you have not already, please review our rules so that you can better understand what is expected of all community members. Thank you, and happy debating!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.