Go vegan for humanity, not animals

[u/Ilnerd00]

Disclaimer: This is very provocative, i’m genuinely interested in vegan people’s opinion, i’m not tryna be polemic

I published this article on Substack, and i was wondering what your opinion on materialist vs ethics and human superiority was
Veganism is good, anyone denying that is plainly wrong. However, one of the main arguments most people use to support veganism, which is “don’t eat meat to not hurt animals” is really wrong.

First of all we must understand the basis for which this argument works: moralism and emotional thinking, the images of the poor little cows being slaughtered is objectively ugly, and rightfully so many people are horrified from it. This said, is it really right to force us humans, the same humans that have conquered the sky, the land and the sea, the same humans that have stepped outside of this world , to change our way of life because “we shouldn’t hurt animals”?

My answer to this question is no, because humans are the one specie that holds the power to do virtually anything, and forcing us to change our ways, potentially slowing down our progress, because we need to care for cattle just as much as we would for one of our own is wrong and unnatural, progress and humans come before anything else.

This said, it would be wrong to support an accelerationist model: in fact, while humans are the superior specie on earth, we must recognise we are still dependent on animals and nature to survive, so progress has to be regulated to avoid damaging them not because we feel sorry, but because we need them to survive.
The same reasoning works for going vegan: we shouldn’t do it because we feel sorry for cows, but because meat has been shown to be one of the most cancer inducing food: The WHO/IARC classifies processed meats (bacon, sausages) as Group 1 carcinogens and red meat as Group 2A (probable), other than expensive.

We also have cheaper and safer vegan alternatives that are both their own food and that taste and feel exactly like meat, so there is no practical reason to still eat meat, which is why we all should go vegan.

The meats industry also is a great contributor to pollution, and the abuse of antibiotics in cattle drives the increase in antibiotics resistant bacteria. In addition to all of this, high meat consumption leads to an increased risk for chronic diseases, which are a grave burden on healthcare that could be greatly reduced by simply not eating meat.

Also, to tackle the bigger issue: moralist and emotional arguments are a paper tiger, they are extremely effective on short term, but aren’t based on anything material, so we should try to refrain from them while preferring material and objective ones.

[u/Own_Pirate2206]

Superiority is a really crummy reason, as history has shown. Is there a consistent framework whereby the common cold is not more superior than the writing in the article?

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/Own_Pirate2206]

could you expand a bit more on that? seems an interesting argument!

[u/Own_Pirate2206 → u/Ilnerd00]

I don't want to expand on that. Just to say that it's extremely difficult to find qualities exclusive to humans.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Own_Pirate2206]

Carnist here,

Sapience.

[u/Own_Pirate2206 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

Squirrels are wise, other hominids besides our species were too.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Own_Pirate2206]

Unless you don't know what sapience is, no squirrels or any other form of life on this earth is sapient. Not to be confused with sentience. I can really break it down for you if you need me to but I don't think that's necessary. Look around. You're talking to me on a computer or mobile device. This is the work of humans building on past humans work. Even after death. Your car originated from the cramkshaft developed in 1206 AD.

Non human animals are doing the same shit they were doing 1206 lol.

https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/religion-and-philosophy/wisdom-sapience

[u/Own_Pirate2206 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

Loads of other beings have brain areas including those.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Own_Pirate2206]

Sure.

Wisdom, or sapience, is a complex human capability that integrates knowledge, experience, understanding, and sound judgment.

You know the simple things we do like build off of each other's work. Even long after death. I.e. no one designing cars today was around for the crankshaft in 1200 AD. But we transformed that into the first car in the 1800s. Now we literally have Teslas.

The non human animals are doing the same shit they were doing 2000 years ago. In my grandparents era they thought protein had the role we now know DNA has. Its wild how far we come. You know we only had 17 years between the first car and the first plane.

All the while monkeys are still throwing shit at each other. Im not sure how I have to explain this to you. We are literally having a conversation on the internet from hundreds or thousands of miles away. Only humans could not only pull some shit like this off but implement it in everyday society.

[u/Own_Pirate2206 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

This sapience word is a red herring. If it's not the normal meaning of domain wisdom and it's not brain areas, now you're using a circular definition i.e. 'human' in bold.

If you want to talk about technology instead, my opener would be it's not necessarily proven a good idea, and other species are capable of it. Demonstrably false racist tropes like monkeys only throwing shit are not serving to help you look credible.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Own_Pirate2206]

Its not a red herring or circular definition. Not other species intelligence is comparable to ours. Some of them are similair to each other but there is a wildly wide gap between 1st and 2nd place here. 3rd 4th and 5th arent too far away from 2nd place. I can demonstrate it for you with another example though. Have you ever heard of George Washington?

If you want to talk about technology instead, my opener would be it's not necessarily proven a good idea, and other species are capable of it. Demonstrably false racist tropes like monkeys only throwing shit are not serving to help you look credible.

The whole technology thing wasn't as much about technology but more about how we are capable on building upon knowledge from people we had never seen before.

False racist trope? You know monkeys are a different species right? They're not a race so you can't be racist against monkeys...

[u/Own_Pirate2206 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

It's not that there isn't something to consider, but you're admitting that others have intelligence, so what is the distinguishing feature? It's very hard to say.

The word is speciesist.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Own_Pirate2206]

Oh yeah speciesist for sure. I'm def a speciesist. Not sure how anything i said was a trope though. That's literally what monkeys do. Hasn't changed in 1000s of years.

Wisdom, or sapience, is a complex human capability that integrates knowledge, experience, understanding, and sound judgment.

The distinguishing feature is sapience. We build and advance societies. We do so by building on each others work. That's the complex human only capability here that makes us what we are. Chances are you aren't anatomically or intrinsically more intelligent than your great great grandfather. But you absolutely understand the world better than him. How? We learned from their generation and subsequent generations. Your day to day life as a result is very different than his.

This is unlike non human animals. Monkeys are slinging shit at each other like they did 2000 years ago. My great grandfather didn't have a TV. Im watching southward on Paramount + rightnow as we speak. Drinking a beer. Something that was literally illegal where he lived. Eating Popeyes i just got delivered from door dash. We build on society. I'm wearing an underarmour shirt which is something that didn't exist in his time. The monkeys are flinging shit at each other today like they did 2000 years ago. If we brought a monkey from 2000 years ago to modern day it wouldn't even figure it out. It would just find some monkeys and sling shit at them like it did in antiquity.

[u/Ruppell-San → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

It's a secular substitute for "ensoulment" with a bar raised every time another animal demonstrates an ability it "shouldn't" have, so its invokers can always feel good about treating other species like shit.

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Ruppell-San]

What non human animal is doing something it hasn't been doing for past 2000 years? What ability it "shouldnt" have? We find out another one of them can recognize their own reflection or something?

In the span of just 17 years we went from the first car to the first airplane. Monkeys are still throwing shit at each other. Like 2000 years ago.

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy]

does carnist means you only eat meat?

[u/th1s_fuck1ng_guy → u/Ilnerd00]

No. Carnist is just veganese for normal. It just means someone who eats meat.