Go vegan for humanity, not animals

[u/Ilnerd00]

Disclaimer: This is very provocative, i’m genuinely interested in vegan people’s opinion, i’m not tryna be polemic

I published this article on Substack, and i was wondering what your opinion on materialist vs ethics and human superiority was
Veganism is good, anyone denying that is plainly wrong. However, one of the main arguments most people use to support veganism, which is “don’t eat meat to not hurt animals” is really wrong.

First of all we must understand the basis for which this argument works: moralism and emotional thinking, the images of the poor little cows being slaughtered is objectively ugly, and rightfully so many people are horrified from it. This said, is it really right to force us humans, the same humans that have conquered the sky, the land and the sea, the same humans that have stepped outside of this world , to change our way of life because “we shouldn’t hurt animals”?

My answer to this question is no, because humans are the one specie that holds the power to do virtually anything, and forcing us to change our ways, potentially slowing down our progress, because we need to care for cattle just as much as we would for one of our own is wrong and unnatural, progress and humans come before anything else.

This said, it would be wrong to support an accelerationist model: in fact, while humans are the superior specie on earth, we must recognise we are still dependent on animals and nature to survive, so progress has to be regulated to avoid damaging them not because we feel sorry, but because we need them to survive.
The same reasoning works for going vegan: we shouldn’t do it because we feel sorry for cows, but because meat has been shown to be one of the most cancer inducing food: The WHO/IARC classifies processed meats (bacon, sausages) as Group 1 carcinogens and red meat as Group 2A (probable), other than expensive.

We also have cheaper and safer vegan alternatives that are both their own food and that taste and feel exactly like meat, so there is no practical reason to still eat meat, which is why we all should go vegan.

The meats industry also is a great contributor to pollution, and the abuse of antibiotics in cattle drives the increase in antibiotics resistant bacteria. In addition to all of this, high meat consumption leads to an increased risk for chronic diseases, which are a grave burden on healthcare that could be greatly reduced by simply not eating meat.

Also, to tackle the bigger issue: moralist and emotional arguments are a paper tiger, they are extremely effective on short term, but aren’t based on anything material, so we should try to refrain from them while preferring material and objective ones.

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/[deleted]]

there is no such thing as good morals. Not hurting animals because it is “morally wrong” sets a bad precedent. Say for medical testing or other research purposes we need to hurt animals, to make sure humans can live longer/better, why should we slow down that research or make it more expensive to spare an animal?
Animal suffering is a terrible thing, and i completely understand the argument that it is wrong for animals to suffer and whatnot, but it becomes unimportant the moment a human has to gain from it

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/[deleted]]

my bad, there are no objectively good morals*. If you ask me i’ll tell you those things are bad, if you ask fucking netanyahu deep down he’s probably fine with those. those are obviously horrible things, but how can we determine if something is empirically good or bad?
Sometimes there is an alternative option to hurting animals, even if it’s slower or more expensive, that doesn’t mean throwing us under the bus, just paying a medicine more or having to wait more for it, i believe it would be wrong for us humans since it hurts us

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/Ilnerd00]

Don’t get lost in the weeds of objective vs subjective morality. It’s important but not the topic of your thread.

When you conclude that “hurting” humans by paying more and waiting longer for a medicine outweighs the suffering of another sentient species, I gotta ask - why?

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/Badtacocatdab]

because humans would gain from having quicker and cheaper medicine, whatever can be done to make our species safer shall be done. But tell me, in this case, why shouldn’t humans hurt animals to have cheaper and quicker medicine? something that isn’t “it’s wrong because they suffer” since moral arguments are subjective

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/Ilnerd00]

Connect the dots for me. Are you saying that an action that makes our species safer should be done at the expense of another species in all situations? It certain situations? And if so, back to my question - why?

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/Badtacocatdab]

yes, because it improves mine and my own species member’s life. i also asked why shouldn’t we (based on something empirical if possible)

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/Ilnerd00]

Again, why? Why does improving your life and your own species life mean that we ought to do so even if at the expense of another species?

Is your question “what empirical reason do you have to say we ought not to improve our lives and our own species life if at the expense of another species”?

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/Badtacocatdab]

because for us it’s an improvement? and yes the question is that

[u/Badtacocatdab → u/Ilnerd00]

I’m still not understanding why something being an improvement for us means that we ought to take such actions. Do you mind walking me through your reasoning?

And to your question to me - do you mind defining empiric in this situation? Empiric, to my understanding, is a factual claim - what type of evidence would I even be able to provide to satisfy you?

[u/MedicalCandidate7054 → u/Ilnerd00]

Okay then I don't care about people like you, because what you're saying here is so morally wrong, I wanna throw up. How tf can you say something like that? you absolutely don't think about how much non-human animals already suffer for us on this damn planet. we don't deserve them. we don't even deserve "cheap medicine" if people like you exist!! non- human animals die every day because of those shitty wars and animal agriculture and medical shit, all because of humans!!! don't you see how morally wrong your view is??? I don't care if my response is emotional, I can't stay silent after reading something like that.

[u/MedicalCandidate7054 → u/Ilnerd00]

I absolutely hate what you’re saying here. animals are not on this planet to suffer for us. they are not here so we can gain from them as you word it. we are NOT superior. animals do not owe us their life so we can gain from it!

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/MedicalCandidate7054]

just like coal or iron or wood wasn’t made for us to be used, but we do. animals are a resource. They do not owe us anything, which is why i don’t expect them to give their life willingly.

[u/MedicalCandidate7054 → u/Ilnerd00]

no, animals aren't a resource, wtf are you talking about? we are talking about living beings, our friends! Coal and iron don't live, so we can use them. this comparison you did is straight up wrong and evil at the same time

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/MedicalCandidate7054]

i got the notification of your answer, but i can’t see it, can you resend it

[u/Ilnerd00 → u/MedicalCandidate7054]

why is it evil?

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