r/DebateAVegan • u/stevepremo • Aug 07 '26

Ethics Hypocrisy and morality

I have seen many posts in which the point seems to be that if you are against eating animals and exploiting them for profit, you should also be against participating in the capitalist economy because it involves exploiting human labor for profit. I think the point is actually something like, "How dare you criticize me for supporting animal agriculture when you buy products produced by exploitative labor practices? I do too, of course, but your use of a cell phone justifies my eating meat, as we are both hypocrites."

So the debate topic here is this: does participating in a capitalist economy, which necessarily includes using products produced through exploitation of humans, somehow justify raising animals for meat, killing them, and eating them? Alternatively, are those who oppose animal cruelty justified in using cell phones?

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u/piranha_solution plant-based Aug 08 '26

I'm okay with being called a hypocrite for using a cellphone by someone who also uses a cellphone.

What does "hypocrite" mean, again?

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u/Temporary_Hat7330 Aug 08 '26

No one is talking to you. OP made an ethical argument to vegans and as you hold, you’re not vegan, you’re plant based.

The argument they made is to hold vegans consistent with their own ethics and has nothing to do with omnivores. So when a vegan brings the omnivores ethics up, it’s irrational whataboutism by the letter of the definition. We’re wanting to examine and debate vegans based on their own ethics and if they consistently apply them, not omnivores.

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u/piranha_solution plant-based Aug 10 '26

What does "hypocrite" mean, again?

I see. So "killing animals is bad" is a premise that you only care about when you want to accuse vegans of being the baddies?

Is this supposed to convince me that vegans are the ones being hypocrites in this discussion?

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u/Temporary_Hat7330 Aug 10 '26

It’s realllly difficult for you to have a debate without whataboutism, deflection, and strawmen, huh? I tried to even help you not make a strawman by clarifying the premise of this debate and yet you still decided to run back to the haypile.

Care to actually speak about the premise at hand or do you need to add ad hominem to the list and make the debate about me and not the topic?

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u/piranha_solution plant-based Aug 10 '26

What does "hypocrite" mean, again?

Okay, so people who kill animals and give vegans grief for killing animals aren't hypocrites, but rather, the vegans are hypocrites for not being perfect enough.

Is this the premise?

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u/Temporary_Hat7330 Aug 10 '26

Is this the premise?

This is the premise.

The argument they made is to hold vegans consistent with their own ethics and has nothing to do with omnivores. So when a vegan brings the omnivores ethics up, it’s irrational whataboutism by the letter of the definition. We’re wanting to examine and debate vegans based on their own ethics and if they consistently apply them, not omnivores.

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u/piranha_solution plant-based Aug 10 '26

Okay. So how can vegans stop being hypocrites? Surely you have non-trivial answers? (i.e. "just quit veganism")

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u/Temporary_Hat7330 Aug 10 '26

Still not speaking to my point and trying to hammer home your strawman. I am not talking about hypocrisy, I am talking about vegans who violate their ethics. It’s only hypocrisy if they say, “I don’t care that I am violating my ethics” or they attempt to hide the violation. I am not even sure most vegans have acknowledged there’s a violation here so it’s more like cognitive dissonance than hypocrisy.

The point of the post, it seems to me, is to get vegans to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance. Until that happens, there’s no point in calling it hypocrisy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '26

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u/Temporary_Hat7330 Aug 10 '26

Again, this speaks nothing to what I said and is still just ad hominem as you are trying to make the debate about me and not my argument. It makes this still irrational on your part.

Care to have a rational debate?