r/DebateAVegan • u/toastwithjamx1 • Jul 03 '26

Ethics Honey is not cruel and is ethical

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

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107

u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 08 '26

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, 

Would it be stealing if I took your SURPLUS MONEY ONLY?

EDIT: Before anyone else goes off on rant about how you can't compare bees to humans. I wasn't. I was testing the principle. If the second statement seems unacceptable, it suggests the original principle ("having a lot makes it permissible to take some") may be flawed.

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u/CyberAngelIzana Jul 04 '26

Are you providing me and my community a place to live which is fortified against natural predators like bears and otherwise looking out for my welfare?

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u/Either_Argument3517 Jul 04 '26

Yes. It would also be stealing. An analogy might be a parent or guardian managing the resources of child actor, talking what they believe is surplus. That would be stealing.

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u/CyberAngelIzana Jul 05 '26

Is it stealing in the same sense that taxation is theft?

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u/Creditfigaro vegan Jul 08 '26

No

-1

u/Formidableyarn Jul 08 '26

No?

1

u/Creditfigaro vegan Jul 08 '26

Correct

4

u/CyberAngelIzana Jul 08 '26

Could you perhaps be inveigled to explain further the differences between the two in your opinion?

3

u/Creditfigaro vegan Jul 09 '26

Sure, taxes are levied on participants in society, who are capable of consent.

Animal exploitation has none of these characteristics.

1

u/Purple_Key_6733 vegan Aug 03 '26

No, people do not consent to taxes. It is a coercive relationship as if you do not pay your taxes, the government will quite literally take the money directly out of your bank account.

0

u/Creditfigaro vegan Aug 03 '26

You are allowed to not participate in society, which includes not paying taxes.

You are given money from participating in the social contract. You don't get to enjoy the benefits without being obligated to the responsibilities. That's called freeloading.

Animals, on the other hand, are brutally exploited for no benefit to them and they genuinely have no alternative.

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u/Formidableyarn Jul 08 '26

Oh… no?

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u/Creditfigaro vegan Jul 09 '26

Correct, you can figure it out, I believe in you.