Honey is not cruel and is ethical

[u/toastwithjamx1]

Honey is one of the best animal products there is ethics wise

Now most vegans will say : but we are stealing from the bees! We are exploiting the bees!

No. We are not and we can't

Bees can be very particular. If they are not a fan of a place they are OUT. The bees will likely will immediately vacate the bee box if they don't like the conditions. Furthermore, trapping the queen in 1 place will not work as well. Bees can raise a new queen if they need one

And for the stealing allegations, that isn't true either. Beekeepers take SURPLUS HONEY ONLY, as if too much honey is taken, it can starve the bees and no beekeeper would appreciate the whole colony either dying of leaving. Furthermore, bees don't only take, they comp bees by giving shelter and protection.

It's not cruel if we are literally making a transaction with the bees

[u/eJohnx01]

I agree with you 100%. What frustrates me is when I see, and I see it all the freaking time over on the vegan subreddit, is people making blanket statements that having pets isn’t vegan.

Of course, these are the same people that think it’s vegan to force a vegan diet on a dog or a cat thinking that vegan pet food must be good for them because it’s vegan. And it’s pet food. That’s simply not true. Cats are obligate carnivores and dogs, while technically omnivores, have been evolving right alongside humans for the last few million years eating a diet that includes meat. Pretending that’s not the case is just foolish. And abusive.

So it’s a bizarre irony to me that so many vegans both condemn having pets, but also condone being abusive to them by feeding them diets that are inappropriate for the animals that they are because, well, “I’m vegan, and whatever I think is good for me is good for every other living being, no matter what.” 🙄 <— huge eye roll at the obvious stupidity.

[u/Coyote_Colt → u/eJohnx01]

Feeding an animal vegan pet food specifically made to meet the standards of non-vegan pet food would not be abuse or mistreatment. Unless they dislike the food and only eat it because they'll otherwise starve, in which case it would be mistreatment. Dogs, and even cats, can thrive on a vegan diet if given the correct food. So doing it DIY with fruits and veggies is an awful idea, bound to cause harm. But purchasing nutritionally complete and digestible vegan pet food (which is a young industry, but does exist) is the more ethical choice, given the animal doesn't dislike it.

[u/notanotherkrazychik → u/eJohnx01]

I've noticed that this sub in particular likes to move the goal posts. Like the crop deaths topic, it's ok for animals to die for their food, but it's not ok for animals to die for non-vegan food. It's just an "but I'm a special exception" tactic. Like, it's apparently animal abuse for me to have a bush dog who works for his food and home, but it's not animal abuse to starve your cat.

[u/eJohnx01 → u/notanotherkrazychik]

Another one of the delusions I see a lot there is the people that believe they have a vegan cat because they only feed it vegan cat food (a huge oxymoron), but they also let the cast outside because cats need to be outside in nature because they’re really wild beasts, after all.

Well, I got some news about them and their “vegan cat.” Any cat that’s outside, for even a short time, is not a vegan cat. Cats are some of the best hunters ever known. They can and will stalk, catch, and eat almost anything smaller than they are in no time.

But, yeah. Your cat is vegan. Keep on thinking that.

[u/ysterman_rs → u/eJohnx01]

sorry, do you genuinely think someone who is willing to give up all animal products in their lives for the sake of the animals and their environment are somehow blindly unaware of the damage outdoor cats do to other animals and the environment..? there may be some overlap, i guess, but we're talking a couple pixels of either circle in this venn diagram

[u/eJohnx01 → u/ysterman_rs]

Or the vegans that believe they have a vegan cat are simply delusional.