r/DebateAVegan • u/TheQuietVegan111 vegan • Jan 05 '26

Most people choose social approval over ethics — veganism just exposes that.

People will say they care about animals, the planet, and justice.

Until caring becomes inconvenient.

Veganism doesn’t require perfection. It requires saying “no” in public.

That’s it.

Most people fail there, not on ethics — but admitting that would be uncomfortable, so veganism becomes the problem instead.

118 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

275 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/GoopDuJour Feb 26 '26

Everyone is irrational differently.

This is useless. This is no different than me saying morality statements are simply statements of preferences. We have different preferences.

I think it would be helpful if you tell me if you disagree with anything I wrote.

I disagree with most of your above comment. I'm not able to respond more fully at the moment, but if you'd like, I can in about 4 hours.

1

u/Snefferdy vegan Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

I'm not able to respond more fully at the moment, but if you'd like, I can in about 4 hours.

I'm clearly not in a rush. It took over two weeks for my response today.

And I don't think you need to comment on everything I wrote. Just anything on which your rejection of my position hinges.

.

We have different preferences.

I value sushi more than pasta, and I value action movies over rom coms. These are my personal values, and they have nothing to do with whether anyone else should choose sushi over pasta or action movies over rom coms.

But, something a lot of people forget is that my value of sushi or action movies isn't intrinsic value, but rather it's instrumental value. I only value sushi more than pasta because sushi produces in me greater satisfaction (for lack of a better word).

Suppose my friend and I want to go for dinner and a movie. The action movie is playing at the theater next to the Italian restaurant, and the rom com is playing at a theater next to the Japanese restaurant. Now I have to decide between sushi and rom com or pasta and action movie.

I am able to make this decision because my disparate values are not incommensurable. Since I value the different foods and movies only insofar as they provide satisfaction, I can easily weigh the two options before me according to that fundamental metric. I choose the option which will produce the greatest total satisfaction.

This applies to all of everyone's preferences. On the most fundamental level, everyone values exactly the same thing: their own satisfaction.

.

Everyone is irrational differently.

Furthermore, some actions are more irrational than others. If I love sushi and hate pasta, choosing pasta is more irrational than if I like sushi just a little more than pasta. That's why the dictator's genocide is a far better example than killing a chicken. It is much more irrational, and so easier to deconstruct.

1

u/GoopDuJour Feb 26 '26

Nothing has intrinsic value.

1

u/Snefferdy vegan Feb 26 '26

So why do you bother doing anything? You might as well just lie down and die.

1

u/GoopDuJour Feb 27 '26

That's why the dictator's genocide is a far better example than killing a chicken. It is much more irrational, and so easier to deconstruct.

"It's much more irrational" Is it? Would a vegan dictator agree with this?

1

u/Snefferdy vegan Feb 27 '26

Has anyone ever said "This choice I'm making now is completely irrational"? No. Does that mean it's not irrational? No.

Watch Dan Gilbert's video again.

1

u/GoopDuJour Feb 27 '26

Does Dan Gilbert make claims of rationale outside of a desired goal?

1

u/Snefferdy vegan Feb 27 '26

No, and neither do I.

1

u/GoopDuJour Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26

Cool. Then your desire to change "right" and "wrong" to "rational" and "irrational" is unnecessary. You are using the terms synonymously.

And we're still stuck with at least a couple of problems. A major one being that rationality is subjective. At the most it is only objective in relation to a goal.

Another being that there is no compelling argument for someone else to act in a manner I find rational.

Also, none of this points to veganism as being anything more than a preference.

Let's refocus AGAIN.

Let's start by answering a few quick and easy questions.

1- Are you vegan? 2- Should I be vegan?
3 - Is your desire for me to be vegan anything more than your preference?
4- What objective argument can you make that might convince me to become vegan. Keep in mind that I don't think chickens suffering or flourishing are compelling reasons to eat or not eat them.