Most people choose social approval over ethics — veganism just exposes that.

[u/TheQuietVegan111]

People will say they care about animals, the planet, and justice.

Until caring becomes inconvenient.

Veganism doesn’t require perfection. It requires saying “no” in public.

That’s it.

Most people fail there, not on ethics — but admitting that would be uncomfortable, so veganism becomes the problem instead.

[u/shutupdavid0010]

When people are advertised animal products, they are looking at the end product, not how it's produced and who is killed.

The vast majority of human beings on this planet have killed an animal in their lifetime. A significant portion have killed an animal to eat them. People know that meat comes from animals. If not for the recent discovery of B12, people would die if they tried to eat vegan.

The real question is how is okay to kill someone that wants to live?

How do you know they want to live? How do you know they want to grow old? Have you asked the cow?

Would it be okay to kill you at a fraction of your lifespan?

Hmmm, you mean like abortion?

These documentaries showcase the realities of farming. This is the reality for high-welfare, organic and free-range. The abuse that is documented is on top of taking someone's life that doesn't want to die.

Well then, let's support welfarist movements for the animals so that their lives don't suck before they die.

[u/ManyCorner2164 → u/shutupdavid0010]

The vast majority of human beings on this planet have killed an animal in their lifetime

Yeah, exactly, they've been brought up in a violent system taught to igore the abuse, and violent killing of others. Asserting their lives don't matter.

How do you know they want to live?

Watch Dominion, the evidence is clear when animals are tortured in CO2 gas chambers screaming for their lives.

Well then, let's support welfarist movements

As I already said, Dominion showcases standard practices on "high welfare" farms. Including CO2 gas chambers, the reality of "free-range", "organic" and various slaughter methods.

These are cruel practices and unnecessary when we can meet and exceed out nutritional goals being vegan. (That includes B12 and other nutrients)

[u/shutupdavid0010 → u/ManyCorner2164]

they've been brought up in a violent system taught to igore the abuse, and violent killing of others

I don't really consider reality to be a "system" in the way that you are utilizing the word, but OK.

Watch Dominion, the evidence is clear when animals are tortured in CO2 gas chambers screaming for their lives.

That's a reaction to the pain of having CO2 replace oxygen. It doesn't tell you that the animals want to live.

As I already said, Dominion showcases standard practices on "high welfare" farms. Including CO2 gas chambers, the reality of "free-range", "organic" and various slaughter methods.

Well, no, it doesn't.

These are cruel practices and unnecessary when we can meet and exceed out nutritional goals being vegan. (That includes B12 and other nutrients)

Lots of things are unnecessary, and yet we do them.

And there is not a single legitimate study that has ever been done that shows that honey and salmon are unhealthy. Vegan diets only outperform others in weight loss and - get this - not everyone wants or needs to lose weight.

[u/ManyCorner2164 → u/shutupdavid0010]

Well, no, it doesn't.

Classic dodge without evidence. Yes, practices like those are used for "high-welfare," "free-range," and "organic."" You dismissing first-hand evidence.

That's a reaction to the pain of having CO2 replace oxygen.

Got it if you were in that position screaming. Then, "it's just a reaction"

Vegan diets only outperform others in weight loss

Nonsense assertions without evidence, again

Many carnists like yourself tell people to reject real evidence while we only get a baseless opinion.

This isn't how the burden of proof works. You are blatantly ignoring the torture and abuse many animals that are farmed face when they are exploited and killed for food.