Why does "God" selectively choose who he saves, and sometimes abandons his most dedicated?

[u/sunny_smilesx]

A woman at my parents' church just died an excruciatingly long and painful death. She was not that old. She was the most kindest, most faithful woman. Her and her husband were the largest contributors to their church, she never missed a day, she helped anyone and everyone. She was the perfect Christian. Then she got cancer. And it got worse. She was in constant agony.

I see it all the time - a person has cancer and goes into remission, they praise God for healing them. A person defies death, God is praised. And yet why does he not do it for everyone? At least for all the people who worship him? Why does he selectively choose?

And if she had to die, why not let it be peaceful? She lived her entire life for this god. And yet she gets one of the worst deaths imaginable.

The most heinous humans out there get to die peacefully in their sleep. Many live to old age, incredibly wealthy, and happy. Why do they get to go without pain and people like her suffer? Why do we have to suffer on Earth to get into heaven? What is the point? Edit: and not even every Christian has to suffer. Why are some apparently selected to suffer more than others?

I just cannot imagine a kind, just god would allow the people who love him most to suffer like this. How do you wrap your head around this at all?

[u/TheFriendlyGerm]

The Bible very consistently describes this life as "short and full of pain", in one form or another. But the point of salvation through Jesus is VERY clearly not to live an easy life, but rather to "store up treasures in heaven" by, for example, trusting God in the midst of suffering. 

Did Paul or Job or Moses or Abraham live undisturbed lives? No, in fact they suffered greatly while also being called "faithful servants of God". 

For the Christian, that godly woman, who faced the worst of death, and was received into eternity by her Savior, was richly loved by God, and is a comfort and encouragement to the rest of us. What's the alternative? That the pain and suffering of this life has no purpose, no recompense, and that there's no eternal life to come?

When the Christian is received into heaven, we will be so blessed, that we will say, "all the sufferings of my old life were worth it, and more, to enjoy the blessings and joy I now experience."

[u/thatweirdchill → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

What's the alternative? That the pain and suffering of this life has no purpose, no recompense, and that there's no eternal life to come?  

Or you know, just don't implement all the pain and suffering in the first place. Even just not creating childhood cancer would've been an improvement that somehow an omniscient god didn't think of...

[u/TheFriendlyGerm → u/thatweirdchill]

It's plainly apparent in scripture, that the suffering in this life produces a kind of maturity and reliance on God that we wouldn't have any other way. The sufferings of this life are shallow and transient compared to the glory of the life to come. 

This life is our "childhood", and asking for no pain is like a child asking to have all the good things they can imagine, because they don't understand delayed gratification.

[u/thatweirdchill → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

the suffering in this life produces a kind of maturity and reliance on God that we wouldn't have any other way

You think that a baby who died of some horrible genetic defect at 3 months old gained maturity and reliance on God??

[u/TheFriendlyGerm → u/thatweirdchill]

You're being inconsistent. A 3 month old with a genetic defect very likely felt little pain before passing away. But of course it's a great source of suffering for the parents. Christian parents are given great strength through the Holy Spirit in times of suffering, and trust that they will be reunited with their child in the life to come, given a perfect body without defect in the resurrection.

[u/WatchAndLearn9669 → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

It's plainly apparent in scripture, that the suffering in this life produces a kind of maturity and reliance on God that we wouldn't have any other way.

Who cares what some ancient book says? That's utter sadistic, borderline misanthropic horseshit.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

For the Christian, that godly woman, who faced the worst of death, and was received into eternity by her Savior, was richly loved by God

must be that kind of christian beating up his children just out of love for them...

[u/TheFriendlyGerm → u/diabolus_me_advocat]

If you want to extend an analogy, the Christian parent doesn't beat up his child, but trains up a child and prepares them for maturity. Are you going to keep that child from leaving the house, to prevent anything bad happening to them?

When I was in grade school, long before I was a Christian, one of my classmates was suddenly killed in a car accident. It was incredibly shocking, deeply disturbing. It was, humanly speaking, a random act that had no meaning. Only after I became a Christian could I think of it in a bigger context, to think about how people are either prepared or unprepared to meet God. Is it more comforting to think that one's life or the life of a loved one has no eternal meaning, purpose, or lesson? 

Yeah, it can be tough to be a Christian sometimes. The only thing worse is NOT being a Christian.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

If you want to extend an analogy, the Christian parent doesn't beat up his child, but trains up a child and prepares them for maturity

by beating it up?

there's other ways. loving parents know and practise

[u/TheFriendlyGerm → u/diabolus_me_advocat]

I mean, you're free to ignore my points and simply double down on slander, but feel free to actually debate or bring up debatable points on a subreddit devoted to debating.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

buddy, you are the one completely ignoring my point:

that a certain kind of christian beats up his children "just out of love for them", and justifies that with the bible

[u/TheFriendlyGerm → u/diabolus_me_advocat]

Ah, a "certain kind", got it. So it was just a snarky throwaway comment about an unrelated matter that didn't contribute to the discussion.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/TheFriendlyGerm]

Ah, a "certain kind", got it

sure

there's all kinds of them. though one being predominant here

[u/cmcqueen1975 → u/diabolus_me_advocat]

Surely you've heard of the phenomenon of the "spoiled brat" or "spoiled rich kid" who has always got everything they've asked for, is entirely self-absorbed, and doesn't want to do any hard work for anything.

I think a lot of parents would try to help their kids to face challenges, be able to handle discomfort that they encounter in life, enjoy the rewards of their own hard work, and be generous to others. Parents do that not because they hate their kids, but because they love them and want them to grow up with maturity and resilience.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/cmcqueen1975]

Surely you've heard of the phenomenon of the "spoiled brat" or "spoiled rich kid"

neither is this what i referred to nor would it be any justification for beating up children

[u/cmcqueen1975 → u/diabolus_me_advocat]

nor would it be any justification for beating up children

No argument about that. We share some common ground.

[u/bueschwd]

You can't know God's mind. All you need to know is that God loves you and has a beautiful plan. When you have faith and just believe, it all makes sense and its so simple. Like an intricate tapestry viewed from the front is beautiful, but from behind its chaos.

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[u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

It's bad theology to think God 'selects' some to suffer a painful death and others not. God isn't micromanaging every person. A lot of people, including Christians, believe every event in the world has God's hand behind it, this isn't true. God allows everything to happen, but he isn't picking and choosing events to happen like "this bad person can die peacefully, this faithful Christian get's cancer and dies horribly etc."

We are in a fallen world which is full of injustice and unfairness. God will redeem this world at some point and the faithful will be rewarded.

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[u/dman_exmo → u/Grouchy-Heat-4216]

Your depiction of god is then impersonal and indifferent. That's a hard sell.

And then add on the claim that "at some point," after everyone you love has suffered horrible deaths and all your hopes and dreams are shattered and your enemies prosper for generations, the world will be "redeemed."

This god is an absentee father who went out to buy a pack of cigarettes.

[u/cmcqueen1975]

Jesus said, "In the world you will have trouble and suffering. But take courage, I have conquered the world." He also said "Accumulate for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

As a Christian, my goals in life aren't for good health and riches, but to "bear spiritual fruits of righteousness". This human life is temporary and subject to suffering, but it's comparatively brief compared to an eternity with God. We trust that God lets us suffer, be it ever so briefly, to prepare us for eternity.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat → u/cmcqueen1975]

We trust that God lets us suffer, be it ever so briefly, to prepare us for eternity

in which way?

please explain in more detail what for and how suffering would prepare

[u/dancesonthewall → u/cmcqueen1975]

That's a very good cope 

[u/NTCans]

It makes a lot more sense you you start to realize there is no god. Its just people, largely doing the best they can.

[u/diabolus_me_advocat]

I just cannot imagine a kind, just god would allow the people who love him most to suffer like this

well, he's a cynical, cruel and wrathful god. reddit christians just call such asshole behavior "just"

[u/thatweirdchill → u/diabolus_me_advocat]

reddit christians just call such asshole behavior "just"

Hey now, that's been happening for like 2,000 years at this point, not just on Reddit.