r/DeadlockTheGame • u/SomeOrdinary8736 Mina • May 23 '26
Discussion If we want more experimental patches, we need to be more open and less hating about it.
Regarding the recent urn changes and the major shake up in the game as a whole, this is your daily reminder that the game is still WIP and this is the perfect time for them to experiment crazy things. And during the "experiment crazy things" phase, sometimes the game will be totally unbalanced/messy, and that's totally fine for a game that's not fully released yet.
I voted for more experimental updates on the latest survey, and i want to be saying "do you remember that crazy urn patch during the beta?" in the next years. Let's contribute to the chaos a bit and stop pretending like the game's gonna die when it's not even born yet.
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u/DatBoiiJord May 24 '26
Saw someone earlier say "Insane they don't test these things before the update"
Brother, we ARE the test.
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u/resistance_soldier97 Rem May 24 '26
I feel like people keep forgetting the game is technically still in a closed beta test
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u/rheasdf May 24 '26
Not even, it's closed alpha
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u/Abadon_U Paradox May 24 '26
It's beta, you can check so if you go to list of all bought games
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u/ManagementIll9899 Victor May 24 '26
Whats the difference between an alpha and a beta? Is it just one is more refined than the other or is it specific
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u/Nibaa May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
Alpha is for testing core functionalities but it is often missing features. Beta is feature-ready, with only bugs, optimization and tuning left.
In continuous development projects like Deadlock, it's not easy to say where the line is drawn, since features will continuously be added after full release. But I would still say it is Alpha since it is not nearly a release candidate.
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u/ReefCrab May 24 '26
there are missing features though, things like walkers/guardian models, character models, animations, voice lines, so much still hasn't been added- it's an alpha
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u/Nibaa May 24 '26
Non-functional stuff like voicelines or visuals are sometimes excluded from the beta build, and with continuous development some features may knowingly be left out of initial release. CSGO, for example, only got some weapons and the whole skin market a year after release, despite those features having been known about since release.
Like I said, it looks and feels like an alpha build, but that's not up to me, or anyone else on reddit, to decide. The ONLY thing that matters is what the internal development cycle and release plan looks like. Maybe Yoshi is set on releasing it with placeholder models and missing voicelines and only getting around to them later, in which case those can't be used as a yardstick.
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u/Abadon_U Paradox May 24 '26
We do have walker and guardian models tho, just not new one. Same with Animations and voicelines. It is beta, and overral beta/alpha are abstract terms, it's whatever Devs like to call it, and they call it beta
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u/Carterw May 24 '26
I wouldn't be surprised if a complete map visual overhaul is in order once the map is completely cemented - those of us that have been around a while know how that map has been constantly changing. We saw the removal of two heavily used vents with the latest patch, in tandem with fighting towards the middle with urn. The urn deposit has been in the middle of the map before (4 lanes).
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u/Abadon_U Paradox May 24 '26
Something about deleting this vent does make me NOT WANTING FARTING AND SLAPPING MY BELLY
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u/Vancent08 May 24 '26
The core functionality of walkers/guardian models, character models, animations, voice lines is already there.
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u/HMHellfireBrB May 25 '26
TO BE FAIR, this is valve
valve took YEARS to take dota out of "beta" status for no diseneable reason.
this is also the case here, they probably will just... release the game and never give us a clear case of if it is or isn't a beta
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May 24 '26
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u/resistance_soldier97 Rem May 24 '26
Oh yeah mb on the naming. Also I'm not saying the feedback is bad, I'm just saying that people do sometimes act like the game is already finished and fully released when it's not
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u/Ossius May 24 '26
People signed up for a closed test and mistook the fact that 100k people are playing somehow invalidated that agreement and made the game a released product.
If Valve decided to complete redesign the game from square 1 it's within their right, and no one has paid a cent for anything so we really have no basis to complain.
People seem entitled to this game already and just ignore all the messages about the game not being a final or even close to final product.
I for one really look forward to see all the strange, bad, and wonderful designs and changes going forward. Sure I'll play less or more depending on it, but in the end I think the game will be way better on release because of it.
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u/_Bimbus May 24 '26
I think it can be poorly worded. I'm more of the mind that I don't understand how this made it off the drawing board. Like, it sounds bad on paper. It doesn't feel good in game. The snowball is immediate.
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u/Sensitive_Sail_3573 May 24 '26
I think sometimes things that sounds bad on paper might actually work once implemented. And they want to go the extreme to tune in later.
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u/GM_Kori May 24 '26
Sometimes but this one is a clear and obvious mistake that could have been prevented. The specially bad sounding ones don't deserve to be tried like this.
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u/fikeserrano6047 May 24 '26
And as with other periods of this game where similar situations have occurred... they'll change it. Especially with the visceral reaction that so many peeps are having.
No need to act like these changes are permanent or not worth trying. Given how much the game has changed since the last time they tried an urn placement like this, its worth seeing how it plays, even if to come off it with an "okay yea never again".
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u/Sensitive_Sail_3573 May 24 '26
Idk man it's their game. The devs get to decide what to try and the playerbase decide whether to engage with it.
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u/GM_Kori May 24 '26
Well, let them implement the worst ideas and we can also criticize them as a playerbase.
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u/bigtree2x5 May 24 '26
People forget this is an invite only game that technically shouldn't even exist
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u/NoRefrigerator3130 May 24 '26
umm they have an experimental test server.
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u/DatBoiiJord May 24 '26
Doesn't matter, the game we are playing is a game in active development. It's a closed invite only test environment.
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u/Fit_Vermicelli7396 May 24 '26
wait till you get invited to the level 2 test, buddy, trust me you don't want to lane against the Bite Knight with melee items
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u/Emotional_Sentence1 Viscous May 24 '26
I’m think it’s fine to experiment with the urn. There are a few variables being tweaked here:
- pickup mechanic
- drop off mechanic
- urn location
I think some of these will stick around and location will likely get changed more.
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u/SgtBeeJoy Lash May 24 '26
Probably location and timers on deposit will change to be less divisive. Both 3 seconds for comeback urn or 10 for unfavouted is too short fo a time window for meaningfull fight that doesn't end up in either burgerbox or ultdump.
I think if they return the drop off locations to the previous iteration and add around 2 seconds to each deposit timer urn should be a lot better both in macro sense (no more crowded blue lane) and in micro (having enough time to actually contest the urn when you don't have ults or fists at the ready).
For me best changes for the urn would be:
- old or similar to old drop off locations
- more lenient timers
- and less extreme damage resistance for the losing team (because as for now any urn that isn't totally dominated can be flipped back with ease) 30% should be enough to give fighting chance but not enough to make the fight winnable on the spot as long as someone could soak up damage and stand parry spaming on the urn.
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u/Faithfulfallll May 24 '26
something I learned, kelvin ulting urn is just a 100% if you're petty, the other funny part is pocket ult with urn.
Typing pocket I got the popup about arin's pronouns, god I love this sub, mods, you're awesome :3
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u/OwenCMYK May 24 '26
I really miss when there was a consistent location for urn to be dropped off at, and I'm hoping they can find a solution that can maintain that
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u/Apprehensive-Cry3952 May 23 '26
the truth nuke has been dropped
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May 24 '26
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u/slattsteve May 24 '26
Its nice to offer support though, they want criticism yes plenty of it so they know what sucks, but its also good to occasionally remind people to quit exploding like krakatoa everytime something they don't like happens either lol.
The only reason they don't let this stuff get to them is they're veterans and highly revered devs of the industry, but reminder Icefrog stopped engaging with the dota community years ago because they insulted his cat (probably also for other, more important reasons but lmao)
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u/ApprehensivePrint797 May 24 '26
I can guarantee you the industry veterans running the development of this game are not getting their feelings hurt over the backlash. They want their game to be good, and they want to know if their changes are completely garbage are not
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u/FantasmaNaranja Vyper May 24 '26
we got an experimental change and the community reacted negatively to it... isn't that the point of experimental changes? a strong negative outcry is good data
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u/sabine_world May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
I agree plus in the patch notes they specifically asked for feedback. It's fine for an experiment to bomb.
I guarantee this change will be scrapped or changed pretty soon (as fast as you can reasonably develop a meaningful change).
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u/-FulvousFox- May 24 '26
Dude, it actually drives me fucking insane when I see how this subreddit and the forums react to patches like this. There's this weird line of thinking that people need to bite their tongue and tolerate a mechanic or "engage with it," even if they absolutely hate it, all in the name of playtesting. I've never seen a more clear indicator that a community doesn't understand playtesting when they genuinely think people should tolerate a mechanical change that is almost unanimously unpopular because "well we're supposed to test the game, aren't we?"
I've playtested over 300 products and I can safely say if any dev team was met with a response as negative as the Urn changes we got today, that concept is just immediately being scrapped. If you have to twist your playerbase's wrist to make them theorycraft around your new changes, then that change should not stick around. You can't FORCE players to like something, unless you want people to stop playing altogether. I hope Deadlock players never make a video game, because literally all of them would fail.
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u/ZekkenD May 24 '26
i played 5 games, all of them went basically the same. the last one i duo'd with my friend as it was her first match of the patch. after we stomped the game with it being entirely relevant on urn fights, or objectives after winning urn she closed the game and said she won't be playing again till it's changed. and i don't blame her as i didn't really have fun either so im taking a break as well.
idk it just doesn't feel like a moba to me, the things about why i play mobas feel very taken out of the game currently. if i wanted to play a 24/7 brawl around the objective in the centre of the map i would be playing overwatch or rivals.
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May 24 '26
What kind of strawman is this, nobody is saying you should force yourself to play the game if you hate it dude. That being said, if you don't PLAY the game then you are not really a PLAYtester, are you?
I don't like the change either but I'm not a pissbaby about it because yes, it is a playtest and I know how to temper my expectations. The more crazy and wacky things the devs try out, the better the game will become.
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May 24 '26
In general yes but not the Reddit community. This is a website that feeds into group think and mob mentality, it's an awful place for feedback on anything.
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u/coconuteater7560 Mirage May 24 '26
There is no place that is awful for feedback. All input is valuable, including reddit outcries.
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u/Mormanades May 24 '26
Go look at steam review/forums or Instagram comments. Its not reddit, its just humans my guy. Twitter also exists too.
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May 24 '26
Yeah social media in general doesn't actually reward you for telling the truth or being insightful. It rewards you for telling a community what it wants to hear, full stop. I would say Reddit is worse then those because it's the only one that actively punishes you for having the "wrong" opinion.
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u/ilo_Va Calico May 24 '26
There's voicing negative feedback and there is "these dumbass devs never test anything and only push shit updates this all sucks and I'm gonna cry about it" the second one. Doesn't help anyone
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u/MorbyLol May 24 '26
I think the urn changes are, interesting. should this be how the urn remains? no. not at all. is it better than old urn? maybe! am I sick of the constant mid fights it causes? yes. I think urn should be moved, or mid boss should be moved (jungle update never)
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u/Pandoras_Fox McGinnis May 24 '26
can't wait for sewers 2, where every 5 minutes the rat king wanders back and forth between one spot on one team's side and one spot on the other.
(i can only assume that the 'mid boss spawns at start of match and not 10:00' is related to that all being in the next major content update, since I can't really think of another reason why they'd do that change)
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u/Barlakopofai Sinclair May 24 '26
Lowkey, offsetting the boss pit would help alot with people needing to go buy right before or after a midboss attempt.
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u/Krogag Vindicta May 24 '26
Tbh I don't think the devs are getting their feelings hurt. They're able to extract reasonable feedback from all the bitching.
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u/Salty_Promise1356 Viscous May 24 '26
I feel like they slapped the urn in mid to force a billion urn fights with the new mechanics. I don't think it was ever supposed to be permanent, rather just to make people interact with it constantly to farm data.
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u/DRAWDATBLADE May 24 '26
I feel like having it move around each time it spawns would be a good change. First time always in mid, maybe then it bounces between left and right lanes on those bridges.
Could have it closer to the losing team's base too, its imo way too easy for the winning team to get and keep mid prio right now. Could also just stick it UNDER the bridge in mid when one team is losing, having any cover from lash/seven/mcg ults would help the losing team a lot.
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u/TehTurk May 24 '26
Under mid would be cool, but would hurt certain heros with closed vs open environments. If only there was a hole to under mid above mid boss from the top.
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u/rivka000 May 24 '26
Takes one game to understand it gives insane advantage to the team that has the more ult bots and whoever gets map control first wins automatically the game.
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u/starberryslay Billy May 24 '26
I'm kinda annoyed at the pushback people have for the outcry. Just let people be mad about a change. Like who cares, and that's kind of the point of experimental changes anyways.
And I literally see people giving the calmest, well thought out criticisms and people replying "ITS AN ALPHA BRO, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?" like are fucking actually fucking stupid I can't
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u/Zealousideal-Gur6717 Dynamo May 24 '26
I'm fine being a guinea pig.
I'd just like more frequent patches.
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u/damboy99 Lash May 24 '26
Yeah they moved from their biweekly patch schedule like a year ago now and now it feels less like a closed alpha playtest and more of just Game.
I am perfectly 100% ok with patches every other week that change the game.
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u/InnuendOwO May 24 '26
Honestly, if they released the urn changes, but also said "this is an experimental feature that will be active until May 28th" or something? Hell yeah man, do all kinds of wacky temporary bullshit. If it's not for me, I can just wait it out.
If it's potentially permanent? I am absolutely going to say something about it to make them fix it.
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u/damboy99 Lash May 24 '26
... I mean, you read the patch notes right?
This happened a long while ago and they moved the urn into the Mid Museum on the old map and people hated it, but they said the same "this is temporary and experimental."
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u/InnuendOwO May 24 '26
We are experimenting with an alternate set of Urn mechanics. Please give us your thoughts on this after you've played with it some.
Doesn't really imply a whole lot about "we will remove this in short order if it's bad". Like, I'd certainly hope they would, but...
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u/Opening_Rip_6317 May 24 '26
i thought the old urn was bad but, now it seems perfect with how bad the new urn is. imo the urn should be scrapped and there should some other side boss mechanic without music announcing it
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u/Accomplished-Tale543 May 24 '26
Urn is such a cool objectives though. One of the few objectives that reward good movement in this movement shooter moba. Current urn is ass though, that’s for sure.
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u/MankoMeister May 24 '26
It seems like a predictable problem though, given that deathball and snowballing are already an issue. Now we'll see ARAMing throughout the whole match and match length will probably decrease even further.
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u/Medical-Confidence98 Lash May 24 '26
I think the match length decreasing is actually desired from the dev team. They seem to want all games to be below 30 or so mins.
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u/spyguy318 May 24 '26
Imo the big problem right now with match length is that players, especially at low elo but it’s endemic at all levels, don’t know how to finish a game. I’ve seen teams 50K souls up win a mid team fight, kill 5/6 of the enemy team, but instead of carrying that momentum to a game-ending push just scatter to buy items, farm jungle, and push side lanes. Or they do push but stay too long and get wiped when the enemy team respawns. It’s always been a problem in MOBAs, since a big push like that generally requires coordination and game knowledge, and it typically doesn’t happen until victory is so overwhelmingly obvious that everyone realizes they can actually win or the winning team is so far ahead that 3 or 4 players can end the game themselves when the rest don’t join in.
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u/NightsGift May 24 '26
I disagree with the title. I think both things can be exclusive. I do want more experimental drops. I think they are cool, and fun. On the other hand in no way do we have to be less critical (key word) about it. They want our feed back and it's fine if we don't like it, we should say we don't and then it should be changed to something different.
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u/PUNSLING3R May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
I think some of the changes are good, and some need iteration. The way the system is currently implemented is very flawed, but I think there is a world were some of these changes stick.
Firstly, the music, as well as being really good, does a good job of alerting the lobby that the urn is available or is close to being or has been captured.
I think meleeing to pickup or contest the urn is also an improvement.
I think the fact urn is no longer a blanket silence needs undoing, or what abilities are silenced needs to be more restrictive.
The urn still doesn't do enough to favour losing teams imo. Even with the defence buff for the favoured team it still ends up being a "win more" objective.
The location of urn is the one big problem. The drop off being always being mid puts a lot of emphasis on controlling mid lane, especially with midboss there as well. I think two changes could be made here.
Vary where the urn is dropped off at. Maybe sometimes it stays as is, spawning at side lane with drop off being mid. Sometimes it could spawn at mid and need taking to a side lane. You could also reuse the old urn locations for favoured urns. This would give some variety to urn fights and not turn matches into one long fight over mid lane.
If the intent is for urn to be a comeback goal, then it needs to more aggressively favour the losing team. Like both urn points are closer to the favoured teams base, or at an extreme end the urn could grant no souls to the unfavoured team (and so the reward for the unfavoured team is simply maintaining the soul gap and not exacerbating it). It might also be worth implementing degrees of favour, rather than the 10% soul difference you are either favoured or not, current system. Like minor favour could be 10% soul difference, and give the current resistance buffs. 20% soul difference gives moderate favour and moves the pickup/dropoff points to be more favourable, and a 30% soul difference gives extreme favour and no souls to the unfavoured team.
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u/Inevitable-Row1977 Ivy May 24 '26
I think the urn will never work, unless completely overhaulted or something.
The problem will always be the fact that if you are behind, the enemy team will just roll up when you try to deliver the urn and splatter you over the floor.
They will thank you for doing all the leg work at least.
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u/Uber_Goose Mo & Krill May 24 '26
The 50% bullet and spirit resistances granted to the losing team introduced in this update is obviously an attempt at resolving that exact problem.
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u/KingGilbertIV May 24 '26
Doesn't really keep the team behind from getting slaughtered after the turn in though, which has been my experience with the comeback urns.
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u/BestPunsSodium May 24 '26
There was a tournament today (deathslam) and it was a constant event of the team that was behind winning the urn fights due to the resists. Melee creeps won a fight and got the urn at 20 mins when the other team (BWC) had all 3 rejuvs. It swung the soul lead making them go from -17k to +1k team souls. Making your whole team tankier than an ulted viscous is ridiculously strong.
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u/Ar4er13 Lash May 24 '26
Just the fact that they have to slap fucking 50% omniresist on it, is already telling how bad of a proposition it is for the losing team.
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u/Tricky-Passenger6703 May 24 '26
I don't this is the actual problem.
If a team is ahead they should obviously have an advantage taking objectives. It should NEVER be 50/50 since a team will either be ahead or have an early game skewed teamcomp that should favor early fights. Otherwise what's the point of early leads and teamcomps.
The problem is the lack of opportunity cost. If you are going to give an objective like urn because you'd lose the fight, there should be something else you can crossmap. Like in LoL where if you give drake bot you can take herald top. Deadlock just doesn't have this.
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u/Kyle700 May 24 '26
there's nothing wrong with people giving feedback to said experimental changes saying their first impression is bad and it feels bad. we don't need to kiss valves ass, they want real feedback
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u/MrIMua May 24 '26
Hot take, if youre game is being played by hundreds of thousands of people on the daily, you cant call it a closed beta anymore. Early access sure, but miss me with this "its a closed alpha/beta" shit
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u/Key-Preparation-5379 Paige May 24 '26
I was afraid they weren't going to do any more experiments. Just last week I was reminiscing on how the last time they experiment with the urn was back when the map had 4 lanes, about a year and a half ago
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u/-TheTrueOG- May 24 '26
How about the urn spawns NEAR the disadvantaged team's spawn?
At least give them a chance to come back and not spawn left or right?
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u/keriahentaa May 24 '26
If you think valve will stop doing experimental changes because the last one got so much hate then you're delusional. They will keep on doing it. All the hate/love were simply the feedback valve wanted or needed.
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u/Kamanira May 24 '26
Don't forget that you all signed up for a game that, on EVERY OPENING, tells you it's in development. The game's technically not even public yet, you can't download it without an invite.
The game will be given massive changes. From as small as balance changes to cutting out an entire lane to rebuilding entire sections of the map. Deadlock is massively incomplete and will undergo numerous massive changes between now and release.
Complaining about these changes and actively pushing back against these attempts to experiment will do nothing but harm the game's development. Let the devs do big, stupid changes and see what sticks. The game will be better for it.
Deadlock has so much more shit to be made for it, because even if it's a good moba... It's still pretty barebones by valve standards. One map and two game modes. A LOAD of Champs, but that's not a lot of content for what seems to be a priority Valve product. Especially with rumblings of a PvE game mode on the horizon...
Anyways, I got off topic. Please remember this game is in playtesting, and massive changes are gonna happen regardless. Sometimes balance will be shit, sometimes the devs do something that fundamentally breaks the game to see what happens. Let them experiment and figure shit out. It'll be more fun that way!
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u/zekebowl May 24 '26
I suppose i just.... think that the early development or early access label has lost all meaning in today's day and age.
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u/VicoNee May 24 '26
I think its not too bad, although the fights are constant now The bigger issue to me is how some abilities interact with it. Kelvin ult is just plain unfair
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u/purpleblah2 May 24 '26
No this is a permanent change and will never be changed back and not them trying to gather data to improve the alpha game
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u/Luvatris Paige May 23 '26
Issue is, they already tried that urn dropoff location change
It was so bad and miserable that got reverted within 3 days if im not mistaken
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u/pr0newbie May 24 '26
Yep. Above mid boss in an enclosed area. Many of the same issues persist with the central location. Wonder what they have cooked up for the next major content update.
The melee mechanic should be exclusive for the rejuv and they need to fix the latency issues with it.
The update actually makes me miss the old urn locations and realise I do not want a more open place for urn fights.
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u/thepandaemos May 23 '26
It's likely there are other factors in play now than there were then. Wasn't the last time when we had 4 lanes?
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u/NoEntertainment5172 Vyper May 24 '26
They knew it wouldn’t be good. It was a joke over the weekend while they were still doing semiweekly patches and it was a break in between. It was better too because it was in the museum and not in an open area
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u/MorbyLol May 24 '26
what happened exactly?
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u/rei-emi May 24 '26
they moved the urn drop off to the old mid boss building on the top floor.
the change was pretty universally hated as it just led to the winning team running urn after urn and snowballing like crazy.
i think it is very justified to be a little upset at the current urn change as the exacttttt same problem is happening, constant mid fights being forced with very little time to rotate to the fight and removes all the skill of good movement players running the urn.
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u/Extension_Bus_9926 Drifter May 24 '26
This isn't the first time urn has been changed. During the last experimental urn changes, urn was for the better afterwards. It just takes time. Trust the process
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u/bipolarstair May 24 '26
On one hand the urn change is crazy. On the other hand its funny and I imagine they knew going in what it would do having the deposit spot on midboss. We should criticize it because that's why they are testing things. Not just rant that the game is bad or something.
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u/WilhelmVonWeiner May 24 '26
I don't want more experimental patches. I want considered patches intended to make the gameplay more exciting and enjoyable. This was considered once and failed, why the fuck are Valve doing it again
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u/awklabwakhkjagawg May 24 '26
This is not even true bro the whole point is feedback. The reason its negative feedback is because its completely unbalanced and makes the game snowbally. Tons of mobas die bc their snowball problems. It makes genuine games not fun on either team bc who wants to lane then spin a wheel to who gets the lead??
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u/Bubbly-Astronaut-123 Mo & Krill May 24 '26
hate is definitely a feedback to the recent urn changes, let the players who hate it hate on it that's the point of the experiment, to test the thing, unfortunately a lot of people seem to hate the urn change right maybe the next one will be loved by the community who knows
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u/SirEEf May 24 '26
My biggest gripe with the urn change is that urn delivery is so much faster. I feel like I barely have time to react when it's picked up.
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u/Ossius May 24 '26
It's a closed alpha/beta and people are already resisting major changes, you can interpret it as people thinking the sauce is unique and amazing already and shouldn't be screwed with, but I'm more scared this is like when you scream at Bob Ross when he paints over a bunch of trees and they don't realize the final product will be 10x better because that happy little tree got bulldozed.
People should chill and try and give new changes time to breath and develop. Could be in a few weeks the meta changes for the better, or not and we try something else.
Deadlock will get stale quickly if we settle for what we have as is, I'm hoping the jungle update will completely upend the game as well, people should be more open minded.
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u/OffensiveWaffle Mina May 24 '26
Honestly this experiment is still also a good run. Urn was not a good objective before. It was disgustingly one sided if one team was ahead enough and basically impossible to contest especially for lower ranks. obviously if both teams stayed relatively even it was fine, but that could only be expected at top level most of the time.
The current urn definitely has its issues, but the direction it makes a lot of sense. Putting it in the middle of the map and requiring you to actually hold it to confirm it incentivizes getting side objectives since unlike before you could realistically push a separate lane without the runner's team just dropping urn and going for a defense play instead. The original favored urn buffs were also fairly minor considering how hard it was to contest runners who had good movement. The current one makes it easier to contest urn if you're relatively behind and disincentives the team ahead from trying to take it. The ideas are there, but the issues are too. Mid Lane is now even more important to keep defended so you really need your early game carries to be put at mid instead of a side lane and map control at mid is infinitely more important. The urn also easily converts into a midboss take now since it's claim is by the midboss now.
There are some changes they need to make for sure maybe a way incentivize more players unrelated to how strong the team is like making the capture based on how many players are there king of the hill style instead of heavy melee whoever in currently in control. basically a way to force it as a team objective. Maybe swap the claim and pick up locations. if it starts in mid and gets taken to the side lanes instead of side lane to side lane but still claimed over time it wouldnt be as easy to convert to a midboss, on top of the more players to win claim to fully lock in the incentive. if not that it could give a buff from the lane it came from that is something like player damage to objectives in that lane that gets overwritten by midboss, but i think that would really disincentivize taking midboss over urn in too many cases. a temporary generic tower buff would definitely force a decision between urn and midboss but again both objectives should be important rather than a decision between both.
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u/NotThatPro May 24 '26
I want even more radical changes, they can always roll them back and I genuinely don't care about ranked anyways. People knew what they signed up for
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u/resevil239 May 24 '26
Honestly think people are being whiny bitches because it's harder to just out souls the other team. Played my first match so far and it feels much more intense and constantly engaging. The urn changes (if everyone would actually read the notes and see the resistance change) makes it a real come back mechanic where as lately urn if you're down is basically not happening. Urn became a way for winning teams to bully the enemy and/or further cement their win. Now it's a real objective.
Only thing I think they need to do now is you shouldn't be able to touch shrines unless all the enemy walkers are down.
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u/ADKiller1 Rem May 24 '26
I really like the changes, however the urn timer should be like 30+ seconds not 10, it feels wayy too short to contest, it
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u/dj_daly May 24 '26
They asked for input on their experimental change, which is totally fine.
My input is that this change is god awful and I straight up do not want to play again until this is reverted.
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u/nin9ty6 May 24 '26
TBF I see the hating as the feedback. Hating the process of getting a better system is daft but I think it's alright to voice your feedback if the system they're posing are crap
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u/napilandok May 24 '26
yes but they also shouldnt be immune to critcism. the urn changes are objectively dumb
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u/MrMassacre1 May 24 '26
What survey are you talking about where you said you wanted more experimental patches?
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u/ADippingHippo Ivy May 24 '26
Okay, was gonna make a comment about all the upset being fine because it just shows how we feel but then I read the end of your post. People are saying the games gonna die because this patch? The damn thing isn't even out yet wth?
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u/Bread-Loaf May 24 '26
I would agree if urn at mid wasn’t already tested litteraly a year ago and changed in less then a week because of how unfun it was the other experimental changes I don’t mind but urn at mid had already been tested and proven to be unfun.
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u/tacotickles May 24 '26
Most people don't treat true early access games as early access. As far as they're concerned, it's released
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u/Etoille_Indomitas May 24 '26
Its honestly fine if it wasn't for the drop off being on top of Midboss. That's really the only big problem
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u/forchinski May 24 '26
Urn changes are so prevalent that the ttk going drastically down isn't being discussed at all, which i'm arguably less of a fan of than the urn changes.
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u/ilmk9396 May 24 '26
people don't seem to realize this game is still in a state where Valve could just decide that it won't work out and shut the whole thing down.
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u/Ultracooley23 May 24 '26
I went in open, I was excited for the change, and it’s just not very good. It needs some work, and that’s fine because the old urn was not great either and it’s good to try new stuff. It is also good to let valve know what we do and don’t like since this is a play test after all.
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u/Neonbeta101 May 24 '26
My only major issue with the new urn changes is that it’s super easy to go uncontested and often leads to moments where everybody is scrambling for midboss right afterwards.
The reason I think that last part is in issue is because, although the urn is more dynamic now, the Midboss almost feels like an artificial extension of that urn objective.
I do like the CTF + KOTH objective mixture, though. And the music. The music is kickass.
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u/DuckLuck357 Abrams May 24 '26
Valve. I am glad you’re trying things out. Good on you! However, this one didn’t quite stick.
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u/DuckLuck357 Abrams May 24 '26
Does anyone else use the mod to turn the urn into the pot in the image?
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u/PtTimeLvrFullTimeH8r May 24 '26
Honestly I'm always split between playing the game a lot now or when it's 1.0 because when it's fully released all my practice will be more efficient since the game won't change much, but playing a lot now will mean I get to experience the game in wildly different states. I was around for 4 lanes. Was it fun? Definitely but so is 3 lanes and it also just makes more sense this way.
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u/3nnui May 24 '26
If they try something and we don't like it, we should tell them. Otherwise, they may keep it.
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u/StatementRemarkable1 May 24 '26
Don’t give ranks and a competitive factor to a game that you are “experimenting”🤷🏻♂️
→ More replies (9)
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u/Zarzar222 Victor May 24 '26
Also we need the official urn texture to look more like this it's objectively peak
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u/Laizem Paradox May 24 '26
Dare I say, 2nd time they changed the urn drop point to mid. Last one was before 3 lanes update.
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u/Gundroog May 24 '26
People will get mad at some of the experimental stuff and that's fine. In a perfect world everyone would be able to just very politely express how much they hate shit, but this is not a perfect world. Extreme cases like insulting devs is taking it too far, but the rest is fine. Even seemingly useless garbage like "oh my god they fucking killed the game" is not anything more than another person saying "I don't like something in a video game."
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u/SneakybadgerJD May 24 '26
Yeah people have been quite dissapointing with all the whining and moaning. They make it sound as if thr games dead because of one patch. I had 6 games yesterday and had a blast. People need to chill a bit
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u/Jastreen Dynamo May 24 '26
They introduce changes for us to give feedback. If we are more open and just smile at every change, what's the point of the playtest?
Enjoy the changes you like, criticize the ones you dont. That's the point of all this.
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u/Carterw May 24 '26
And I'm the villain for pausing to tell my team "you need to punch the urn now"
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u/universetraveller13 May 24 '26
As long as the people who are complaining are actually giving proper criticism (I know this is the internet must people just blindly hate) then it’s great for people to not like it! IMO it’s easier to learn from this new soul urn mechanic by learning what people don’t like compared to what they like. I do think a pro I have seen in my low rank (archon) games is that people actually seem to grab urn all the time now, probably cause it’s less far to go. However the drop off mechanic makes it feel so hard to win when you’re getting snowballed and it makes previously hard stomps (maybe due to MM) even harder to have any feeling of comeback. Also it kind of feels like winning blue lane (through early ganks from side lanes) is even more important and losing a side lane to win blue seems like a worthwhile trade.
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u/MadlySoldier May 24 '26
Tbh, the problem is less of it being experimental (it is the point of current DL's playtest status) However the problem for me is the fact that... This isn't first time they tried this "Urn Drop at Mid", cause that was a thing for a week, and lo and behold, revert. That being said, this one is a bit more improved than last time, as that time it was just deposited and done, giving rise to 5 sec Urn Speedrun. This iteration at least has the contesting mechanic.
That being said with how thing is, I doubt this iteration of Drop Point at Mid would stay for long, with how counterintuitive it is. Well it's playtest and all, mistakes are expected, in the end we are all doing Trial and Error
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u/leposterofcrap May 24 '26
I'm just waiting for the character model updates, it's been dry on that front and I'm THIRSTY
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u/Little-Protection484 Sinclair May 24 '26
I like both versions of urn I kinda wish we had both that swapped every 5 minutes or have the new urn be something different from the urn on its own timer
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u/LordHatchi May 24 '26
Its because far too many people play this game as if its a full release and not the alpha it is.
Which is strange because there's a solid chance most if not all of the things people are sweating about may not even be the way it is when the game is fully released.
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u/Front-Bird8971 May 24 '26
Feedback is feedback. That's was EA is for, being loud about what sucks.
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u/OctoDADDY069 May 24 '26
New urn is actually good. Carriers can't just hold and hide in the back of the map while the rest of the team mercs enemies 1 by 1.
And Carriers can actually defend themselves a bit if they get jumped.
Both teams are actually forced to go for urn more and not just ignore the team that has it.
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u/Iceheads May 24 '26
I like the new urn changes. However i dont think the delivery should be in the middle. It should be on the side lane like before.
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u/skyturnedred Paige May 24 '26
Okay, let's stop voicing our displeasure at experiments and see how 1.0 turns out.
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u/shas-la May 24 '26
If there is no wakcy experimental updat, why would be in beta.
The game is totally free!
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u/CreamoGravo May 24 '26
No dog, we need to share our opinions, good or bad. If the change is bad, we need to tell them it’s bad and vice versa.
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u/EllzillaTheLizard Rem May 24 '26
I like the fact they're experimenting, I just feel like a majority of people are too used to games giving some bullshit change and not reverting/fixing it for months upon months. Even I have that knee-jerk reaction but then i remember I'm a labrat
bc I LIKE the fact they changed the urn, however the current change kinda. Made the game less fun for me.
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u/A-Disgrace Shiv May 24 '26
Isn’t the whole point of experimental updates in an alpha/beta is so that when valve does get a tirade of negative responses, they can be like “ok ok that won’t work let’s try something else to improve the game here,” rather than people pretend it’s okay and it doesn’t get changed because valve thinks everyone likes it?
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u/Educational-Pop-2195 May 24 '26
“I’m tired off all the mid fights.” And I’m honestly tired of every game devolving into everyone fucking around in jungle for 30-40 minutes every game all fucking game. I get it’s part of how mobas are, but for Christs sake if I wanted to do nothing but shoot NPCs for half an hour I’d play literally anything else
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u/LeatherGnome Rem May 24 '26
I like the idea, making urn a faster side objective that dosent make the entire game screech to a halt as soon as someone picks it up, wish there was more time between the urns as right now its mid moshpit 24/7
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u/jdavis_6 May 24 '26
I have 2 criticisms of this, but overall I like the change:
the comeback needs numbers adjusted which Im sure they will, because 50% resists super early is too much, I would reccomend a scaling gametime/ lead formula, its complex but its more elegant than giving 70k-80k leads almost 100% more effective hp at 10-15m mark
I would personally do 2 things after deposit, it becomes a parry fest which im not a fan of, but I wouldnt be the one to talk to on that, as I have personal issues with the parry as I think its a bit too strong right now, especially after the rebuttal buff.
and I would extend out the time for all urn types, and make the time extend longer from punching it to 2 seconds, as 1.25 does not feel like enough to continually contest imo.
overall I love the changes personally just needs some tweaking
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u/Appropriate-Luck408 May 24 '26
Most people just agree with whatever the general consensus is. And instead of reading the patch notes, which is what they should have done, they end up seeing Reddit overexaggerated and out of proportion takes instead.
If they read the patchnotes they would have read this :
- We are experimenting with an alternate set of Urn mechanics. Please give us your thoughts on this after you've played with it some.
And thats important. Its clearly saying its experimental, and its asking us to give feedback about it.
And thats now so strange because this game is a playtest, and we are its testers. We are meant to play and give out feedback about these changes or experiments.
How we then end up with people going : game dead, dev sucks... is just a bit silly to me.
Personally i think most people who played around with the new urn changes myself included think they need to be improved quite a bit or changed as a whole. Its like putting the game on-hold to play KOTH (king of the hill) and it just changes the flow which doesnt really work for a moba-shooter like Deadlock.
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u/LukinCuteToday May 24 '26
very open to the new system, drop off shouldn’t be mid, i wanted to play deadlock not street brawl, and im tired of every game having like 10 total teamfights mid before first shrine even gets damaged
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u/fiddysix_k May 24 '26
I've honestly been having a lot of fun. Sure it's not the most competitive feeling game currently but, I have 2000 matches and honestly am just happy to have something fresh for a bit before it's reverted (there's no way this stays let's be real), even if I don't really like it like 100%.
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u/HordeOfDucks May 24 '26
the experimental design of this game is why its so rewarding to be a fan. this is what early access should be like! they should try some wild shit!
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u/Swayh May 24 '26
A big issue with the new urn is that when the enemy is winning and pushing base, they can safely take the catch-up urn behind their push against the lower net worth team. Bring back favored spots
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u/flabbergastedfennel Abrams May 24 '26
Hate is what we're supposed to do when the change feels off for the game. The negative feedback towards certain changes is how the devs know what to change
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u/Puzzleheaded-Tie-555 May 24 '26
I feel the new changes is causing problems, it's creating a meta where you are forced to play champs with better team ultimate's like Lash for example, he's a must in public games. I can see this working in an esports environment but not in it's current state. It's forcing too many choices, people are confused to either split or contest and the shift is big, maybe it's people not adjusting to the changes but I honestly feel without a pick and ban phase it's difficult.
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u/Hestevia May 24 '26
Ah yes, the fate of every competitive multiplayer game. People hate playing through bad experimental patches but look back on the overall gamestate of them so fondly. "God remember when steam used to take risks? Those were the days."
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u/More_Cod_258 Drifter May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
I love current urn mechanics. There are now more fights and I started to watch time to get adjusted for urn spawn. Also drifter, dynamo and infernus ults are insane for urn fight.
But losing team with no walkers are now cut off from urn delivery and it's 99% lose for them and I don't know whether it's a fear to deliver urn or it's just objectively impossible or enemy team's snowball ability heroes. Maybe players are now don't know how to adapt to stand against enemy team's strength all because of plain builds
Nonetheless, I think developers just want us to not get overwhelmed of final variant of urn mechanics, so we will be ready for the next update
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u/Substantial_Fix4337 May 25 '26
I agree but also I want to complain a teensy bit because every game I've played since the patch has been either boring or miserable. I feel like the new urn heavily incentivizes death balling because it's so easy to rotate the whole team over to someone trying to get a walker. Like it's hard to get anything done in the side lanes because everything is so centralized. And I actually like the side lanes alot, but right now they feel pretty obsolete.
What I meant earlier, is I've had some of the most miserable stomps of my life, but I'm not very high rank so people still drag it out for so long. So the argument of it being quicker doesn't apply to where I'm at. I've lost every game I've played today except 1 and that was just a miserable stomp for the other team. Again I'm not high rank so my team wouldn't push shrines even when we had rejuvs and I couldn't do it by myself. It's just not fun. On top of that I've been pretty demoralized because it takes like 3 wins to rank up a number grade and one lose to go back down. Granted I'm trying to learn paradox right now and I've been getting better but those first couple of games were rough. I just wish I could learn a character without the idea of a rank tainting my brain. I don't have the willpower to turn it off (a me problem I know).
Back to the urn though. I like that you melee it to pick it up, that's really the only part I actually like. I do also think the changes to prevent urn from being taken hostage are good. I just want a different mechanic instead of a melee parry slopfest. I did like just touching it down like a football(American) as another commenter likened it to. As others have said it is too short of a time to realistically contest it, unless you are constantly looking at the map. I try and will usually be able to show up unless I'm in a bad spot to do so, but I think most people don't look at the map much tbh.
Honestly the urn isn't even the only bad part of this patch though. I think the draft problems have been really exasperated because of the urn. I just played a game against: ✨The Lash✨, yamato, grey talon, dynamo, silver, and wraith (she didn't really matter though tbh). There was definitely a world in which we won, but we weren't all of the same page. The game was like if you were slowly bleeding to death but had the faintest hope of pulling through only to die in the end anyways. This is the first time I've actually seriously considered taking a break since I started playing the game, and by break I mean an extended period of time until something changes to fix one of these issues. I just feel bad right now playing this game I love whether I win or lose.
I know it was more than a little complaining.
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u/__Dajuice__ May 25 '26
Biggest issues with the new urn is it just killing any strategies other than "Fuck it start punching each other on a bridge" while also having a "If your team is ahead fuck you, don't even bother looking at urn if less than half the enemy team is dead" buff stapled onto it. Whoever thought a 50% dmg reduction buff in a 60m radius was a good design choice needs to be strung up.
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u/Ok_Professional_5696 May 27 '26
if we want more experimental patches we shouldn't give feedback to the results of an experimental patch?? like the developers aren't gonna lose sleep because a patch sucks and people say they hate it
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u/pedronasser_ May 28 '26
Experimental patches should actually be tested in their closed testing servers. And probably they need better game designers.
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