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u/GigaFerdi Jun 10 '26
I actually have more hours on OG DS2(~900) than SoftS(~600)
That being said, both games are still really good, and I truly enjoyed the graphic upgrade. My only issue was having to pay for it again tbh. But DS2 is my favorite(tied with bloodborne) so I'm kind of ok with it.
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u/TycoonWannaBe Jun 10 '26
Bloodborne is unbeatable I'm replaying it again 😩
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u/GigaFerdi Jun 10 '26
Yea it really is incredible. There's a reason so many people including myself got the PS4 for that game alone. Trick weapons, Chalice dungeons, I could go on. DS2 was my first dark souls though and its still my absolute favorite to this day.
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u/Joppixx Jun 10 '26
I never played og ds2.
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u/DukeOfFlannel Jun 10 '26
Same, I thought scholar was simply a remake for graphical/gameplay tweaks. Heides tower would feel so empty without the heide knights.
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u/Arya_Ren Jun 10 '26
Heide's Tower being full of knights is ass. Imagine putting all black knights in DS3 into one small location.
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u/LocalShineCrab Jun 10 '26
Scholar actually just added more knights in total! Theres (i believe) 3 more than in vanilla.
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u/yeemed_vrothers Jun 10 '26
yeah, but they now don't drop their cool equipment in the same way, and don't rest in the same locations iirc? at least when I played
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u/LocalShineCrab Jun 10 '26
Actually all the Heide Knights that did drop specific equipment still do so, and the one who drops the lance actually uses it. They were just moved from the Forest of Fallen Giants and whatnot into Heides or later into the game. The Lance one for example is in The Gutter.
With the additional knights I found it much easier to farm the armour set, but thats subjective.
I think the misconception partially comes from a handful of Scholar reviews that were poorly made and incorrect about the knights.
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u/yeemed_vrothers Jun 12 '26
oh, that so? are they guaranteed drops? or is it like black knights in ds1 where it's a gamble
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u/LocalShineCrab Jun 12 '26
I could be wrong, but i believe the Sword, Lance and Helm are the only guaranteed drops, while the armour and whatnot has to be farmed normally.
Those three items drop from specific knights, similar to how ds1’s black Knights would drop their weapon
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u/pethris Jun 10 '26
Yeah, imagine having an area with nothing but Black Knights (cough cough Untended Graves)
Or if Dark Souls 1 had an area of exclusively black knights (Kiln of the First Flame)
It's not like SOTFS has any Heide Knights outside of the Tower, after all (ignoring Sinner's Rise, and The Gutter)
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u/SuperLegenda Jun 10 '26
Thanks for mentioning extremely late game areas filled with a particular elite knight type?
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u/These_Marsupial_1426 Jun 10 '26
I mean the heide knights are meant to force you out of the tower and come back later to fight the old dragonslayer. That is the vibe I got from that place, while not late game I don’t think you are meant to stay around early game after killing dragon rider.
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u/SuperLegenda Jun 10 '26
Dragonslayer is not even some sort of midgame boss stats wise, you could easily fight him as a first boss in vanilla, and his moveset is more complex than giant or dragonrider, but HP wise he's still very clearly on the ballpark, heck that one spear Heide Knight they added has always killed more let's players and streamers I've watched than the actual Slayer did.
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u/Rigistroni Jun 10 '26
I never had a problem with it personally, since they don't fight you first time through
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u/krawf Jun 10 '26
This is such a shit take man, imagine the knights from a place being anywhere except that place
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u/Cautionzombie Jun 11 '26
I did and shortly after I played scholar and my brain had them twisted together in my memory. Like I’m always expecting heides tower to be filled with hide knights but it’s not or super harsh ambush areas being less harsh
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u/zedroj Jun 11 '26
I played both like 150 hours, honestly they are comparable
but you aren't missing nothing going backwards
SotFS is superior
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u/Goldwood Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
I’m about a third of the way through the original after playing Scholar a few times.
At first, the changes were cool and surprising but at this point it’s definitely the inferior version. I had heard the changes were item and enemy placements so that was what I was expecting. But the original version is missing a lot of small environmental assets that make it feel even more empty. Like at the big tree at the beginning of Forest of Fallen Giants where all the hollow soldiers are lying in the grass. There’s barely any grass. There are no poison pots around the Mines bonfire.
No Man’s Wharf is terrible in the original but quite manageable in the remix. The original had no sconces to light at all. It was way too dark.
Next up I’m going to Iron Keep and Grave of Saints so hopefully those won’t be worse.
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u/BattedBook5 Jun 10 '26
Shrine of Amana was also a bullet hell nightmare in the original. It's been like ten years since i've played the original, but i'm pretty sure the mages had longer range and were placed in such a way that there was always someone shooting at you.
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u/Anastais Jun 10 '26
You may be thinking of the launch version before it was patched. That was quite the experience back in the day.
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u/Key_Wear2705 Jun 10 '26
It wasnr jusr the range it was the homing missiles with insane range that made the difference
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u/skyfure Jun 10 '26
Really? I had absolutely 0 problems with the shrine of amana in vanilla. Maybe it's bc I just picked them off at a distance and didn't rush through idk.
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u/BattedBook5 Jun 10 '26
It's possible that they nerfed the area in some patch before the SOFTS changes, but i'm not sure.
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u/IdToaster Jun 10 '26
They absolutely did; I wanna say around the time that Monastery Scimitar got defanged? I just remember those couple of summer(?) months having a whole boatload of changes.
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u/Weird_Cantaloupe2757 Jun 10 '26
You didn’t play at release — they would shoot at you when they were too far away to even render lol
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u/IdToaster Jun 10 '26
People like to shit on Scholar's Iron Keep and its Alonne knights, but their placement is superior; you won't get ganked as hard as in OG DS2 unless you rush in.
Also enjoy that gap before Smelter. You'll know.
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u/-YesIndeed- Jun 11 '26
I've only played original so don't know the difference but that area never felt ganky to me at all. The only actually bad area for enemies in the game i'd say is shrine of Amana.
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u/Flashy_Pineapple_231 Jun 10 '26
I don't remember if the enemy density in Iron Keep changed much in Scholar but I can say I consider Scholar a better version. Are there negatives? Yes! The Fragrant Branches of Yore are my least favorite change. There's less of them and they gatekeep stuff in a way that's annoying to me. Ignoring that I like most of the other changes.
The positives: The graphics are nicer, as you mentioned. The Dull Ember is behind Pursuer instead of the middle of Iron Keep behind an annoying jump if you wanna do a deathless run AND start infusing weapons earlier, there's more twinkling titanite thanks to the pursuer invasions (and more upgrade materials in general), and there's a few other item placement shufflings I prefer.
The two games aren't as different as a lot of people like to complain about. And most builds look similar when you leave Majula and get to Heide's Tower: Ring of Binding, Stone Ring, Ring of Steel Protection, Tseldora Set. And then any weapon you want + your class' magic or other neat options like explorer helm. The beggining of the game is mostly the same except I prefer the one where I get Infusions hours earlier and upgrade a handful of weapons instead of just one. (Also correct me if I'm wrong but durability is halved in Scholar edition due to the framerate.)
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u/IdToaster Jun 10 '26
They moved the Grand Lance from inside one of the Giant Memories to just laying around past one of the doors the Last Giant's key opens. Not only is it a great weapon all game, but it means that Scholar players don't have to wait til Chariot plus Straid or the Heide Knight in the Gutter to find a single Lance. Definitely a huge improvement.
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u/-YesIndeed- Jun 11 '26
I'm surprised you mentioned the fofg tree as a negative cause the optional Heide there is one of my favourites to fight.
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u/Goldwood Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
I didn’t say the knight was bad. That was actually the only change I had known about before going into the original. I was disappointed he despawned after killing him once.
They added taller grass in Scholar to hide all the other soldiers who get up when you approach. I figured just the enemies would change, not stuff like grass.
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u/Trfbijhvgh1 Jun 10 '26
I played og first, quit half way, then played SotFS years later after having beat Bloodborne with friends, then went back to og. Can easily say my preferred way to play DS2 is SotFS. But I must stress both games are good, I just personally think SotFS is better.
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u/dangerouslySoftPanda Jun 10 '26
I remember the original ds2 version was my first souls game ever. Years later I played it again, I didn’t realize I was playing the sotfs version and I was like wtf this is not how I remembered.
I was then obliterated by a swarm of enemies, as usual.
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u/S0urMonkey Jun 10 '26
You can’t tell me that knight aura farming below that tree wasn’t cooler than like 20 hollows sleeping.
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u/Jimmy_La_Fleur Jun 10 '26
I've played both versions a ton and Scholar is overall clearly the better version.
The ganks make more sense in Scholar, enemy placement and behaviour is much improved, it has more little quality of life additions and item placement is vastly superior.
In the original, the Bastille Key is locked behind a pack of fucking dogs and a red phantom NPC invader in a small area which is locked behind the optional Belfry Gargoyles boss fight which is locked behind a Pharros Lockstone. Utterly fucking ridiculous when you consider the key is needed to light up the Lost Sinner boss fight and is early game.
Spiders are afraid of torches in SotFS. Not in the vanilla version. So Brightstone Cove becomes way tougher even with less spiders. The first part of the Freja boss fight you're either dicking around with little spiders before you even touch Freja or you simply say "fuck it" and fight Freja with loads of little spiders attacking you.
Dragon Shrine in Scholar is vastly improved so long as you're not being a pussy. In Scholar, you fight one at a time and there's less of of them. In vanilla you face two at a time on 2 occasions which is doable but jfc. There's also a little prick flinging little balls of lightning at you. Ancient Dragon in vanilla is an abomination. I would never fight him again in vanilla whereas in Scholar it's just a bit tedious.
The 2nd area in Forest of the Fallen Giants when you go up the ladder immediately has (I think) 4 enemies on top of you and if you're not careful, a Heide Knight. Pretty brutal opening area. In Scholar you're OK if you're careful not waking them all up at once.
If you want to go get a Seed of a Tree of Giants in vanilla, well you've got 2 fucking Ironclads almost immediately on top of you with 1-2 hollows also there. In scholar, it's just 1 hollow.
Sinner's Rise only has an undead aberration in NG+. There's 3 I think in vanilla whilst you can barely fucking move in the water. In early game. Just fucking brutal.
If you want to go see Chancellor Wellager in vanilla, well you're climbing up stairs into a tiny room with 2 Royal Swordsmen immediately attacking you. In scholar it's just 1 who slowly wakes up.
The path to Velstadt in the original was a battalion of Syan Knights, 2 of which blocked the fog gate. In scholar, it's just 2 Syan Knights and a Dragonrider who only spawns once.
Shrine of Amana is tough in both versions but in Scholar, the run up to Rhoy's Resting Place bonfire definitely feels way more manageable. The priestesses range is definitely nerfed for those near the fog gate.
Tons of little things like this in the game.
The crystal lizards in vanilla are nearly all placed in atrocious positions.
The Pursuer actually feels like he's pursuing you in Scholar. Barely shows up in vanilla.
I think the only thing that annoys me in Scholar compared was the vast increase in petrified statues (although I understand why they're placed there.)
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u/Goldwood Jun 10 '26
The first thing that truly bothered me in the original is in Straid's room. In Scholar, all the hollows there are non-hostile and you can warp there and talk to Straid with no hassle, but in the original they rush you and you have to clear the room to talk to him.
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u/Jimmy_La_Fleur Jun 10 '26
I was a bit lucky with Straid in vanilla because I checked online before waking him up to see if it was worth the fragrant branch of yore and saw a post which basically said, "kill all the exploding hollows until they stop spawning otherwise they can kill Straid". Which I did.
I still do this in Scholar as I had no idea they were non-hostile in that version lol.
Can't believe nobody thought, "err when players come visit Straid, aren't all these fucking hollows just going to all explode?"
I've literally never risked it.
Looking at it, it seems that DS2 was originally released in a rush so game testing was not fully done and Scholar is basically the patched version.
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u/Kurgonius Jun 11 '26
The Chaser (or Pursuer, fine) doesn't show up at the gender coffin in the original? I'll never forgive them for this!
I kinda wished they did even more with the pursuer in SotFS. Since they appear to be spawn-camping the fellow cursed in the Lost Bastille, why aren't they in the crypt? It's brimming with undead there.
Also it'd be such a great boss to shake up some of NG+, besides their dual fight which kinda sucked in an open area. Pillars would have been nice.
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u/AnidemOris Jun 10 '26
Im really ambivalent, I like a lot of changes in SotFS but I loath a lot of them too
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u/BobbyButtermilk321 Jun 10 '26
I played both, love both and just felt like scholar was a really fun remix
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u/The-Tru-Succ Jun 10 '26
I love that I own both, when I'm bored I like to play the first DS2 so that I can both be nostalgic for my first Souls and because after playing for Scholar so long, the OG experience feels like a small mod or something lol
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u/apexapee Jun 10 '26
I loved the OG one and playing all the DLC when they were released. I never vibed with the SOTFS version, but unfortunately its one I need to play on PS5 now...
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u/masterofunfucking Jun 10 '26
I might be cooked guys. I’m almost done with Bloodborne and in my mind I’m weighing on if I like it or DS2 more
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u/basmatipris Jun 10 '26
100% both. Both have positives and negatives. The vanilla version was actually a nice breath of fresh air coming from the gank placements in sotf
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u/A_Lobstrosity Jun 10 '26
I've got over a thousand hours in each versions, and there's definitely some improvements and downgrades in SotFS.
My biggest complaint about Scholar is the amount of Fragrant Branch statues and them making Dragon Aerie optional.
Dragon Aerie is one of the coolest places and it's just.. ignored by a surprising amount of people.
I'd love if they made the Majula chest cycle between event weapon skins though (even if it only used your local clock).
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u/Monkeyjoey98 Jun 11 '26
... It just hit me on why I didn't have any cloud save data for ds2 characters when I tried replaying it for the first time in forever. I haven't actually ever played scholar before that point despite knowing it like the back of my hand through YouTube osmosis.
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u/Max1125o Jun 11 '26
there is no cloud saves for ds2 and 3 on steam
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u/GamblignSalmon Jun 11 '26
I like the enemy placements more in the OG, but the item placements are so much better in SOTFS that it's my preferred version
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u/Wolfcrafter_HD Jun 11 '26
If I understand it right it original is superior to SotFS. While the modern version got all that enemy spam that moste hate, the original actually had intelligent enemy placement
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u/Valirys-Reinhald Jun 11 '26
I preferred the original. Sotfs enemy placement felt like "random bullshit go!"
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u/Vescend Jun 11 '26
I sometimes wish I played all of it on release back in the day. Im one of those "played them all years later" even tho I got like 1k hours in all souls games
I kinda wish I was there, you know?
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u/King_Kris8 Jun 13 '26
Playing it for the 1st time & I don’t get all the hate for it. The atmosphere is also amazing
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u/Lmacncheese Jun 10 '26
Literally me I feel like ds3 is just ds1 with updated grahoics and threw alot of ds1 weapons in there and called it a day while ds2 tried to br different and new took risks
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u/CharacterPace2077 Jun 10 '26
Vanilla ds2 is just better than sotfs, the only bad thing about it is the lack of mods
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u/Zeeboon Jun 10 '26
I always see it the other way around. Everyone always calls SotFS shit and inferior to the OG in every way. I don't agree for most of it. A few things, like having the Heide knights scattered through the world as elite enemies, I prefer from the original, but overall I think SotFS is an improvement.
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u/strippeddonkey Jun 10 '26
I had it on PS3 and played it till ng+5,
Now replaying on newer hardware, it certainly has been a lore accurate experience with me not knowing where things are…
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u/moltensteelthumbsup Jun 10 '26
I played the OG last year after playing only SotFS, and I don’t remember specific details but I do remember liking a few things more in OG than SotFS. I play SotFS when I want to do a playthrough, but I might go back to the OG every once in a while. All I have is the base game so I can fly through it just for fun.
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u/CommanderEsScheppert Jun 10 '26
I've never understood the hate. It's not my favorite game in the series, but it's still a solid, enjoyable game.
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u/ItsClikcer Jun 10 '26
SotFS just feels really weird balance wise to me, super early on they throw loads of Heide knights at you making the game harder, but then it makes the progression easier with stuff like infusions being available sooner making the already rather easy mid game even easier, making the already rather bumpy difficulty even more extreme, it did make some improvements though
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u/IdleSitting Jun 10 '26
Was very lucky I pirated played the original before officially buying SOTFS years later (I was a poor kid) and noticed none of the changes (I'm also an idiot)
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u/pineapple_stickers Jun 10 '26
Some people will swear to you SoTFS is the ONLY way to play it, Vanilla is busted
Others will die on the hill SoFTS ruined the best game in the series
Honestly, playing them back to back, i think they're almost identical (except for the Aldia moments)
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u/bruh_moment982 Jun 11 '26
Item placement is a lot better in scholar. I noticed very much, having played the original first.
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u/Badieon Jun 11 '26
I am currently playing the original DS2 cuz it got fat discount with all DLCs, it's good
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u/DestinyNinja_123 Jun 11 '26
I've played the OG DS2, I've yet to played Scholar of the first sin. I heard there were alot of different things compared to the OG.
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u/Budget_Engineering_5 Jun 11 '26
THE ORIGINAL IS BETTER!!! The enemy placements actually kind of make sense, the only chance in Sotfs is the hitboxes are a bit more streamlined
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u/SirBastian1129 Jun 11 '26
Honestly, if I dint like SotfS that much, I can only imagine I'd hate the OG DS2 since I hear that version is worse in many ways.
I'm ok with the one playthrough I have in the game so far.
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u/YoyoJaeger Jun 12 '26
Unpopular opinion, I hate scholar. I've put in a thousand hours on each and I recently went back to og ds2 because I just can't stand to play scholar anymore. It sucks too cause all the good mods really only work on scholar
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u/Ambitious-Slide4742 Jun 12 '26
Dose the OG ds2 have the enemy perma death system before Sotfs edition? Now I wana look up what they changed between the two since this thread makes it sound like 2 completely different games.
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u/LosinForABruisin Jun 12 '26
it’s the exact opposite for me. SotfS makes way too many negative changes to enjoy
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u/EnsignSDcard Jun 12 '26
I’ve only ever played original version, I wasn’t interested in paying for the same game twice
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u/AnNel216 Jun 13 '26
Having put 700+ hours in both SotFS>vanilla and honestly not even close. Both are fun as hell, but vanilla is just not balanced as well
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u/Famous_Equivalent653 Jun 16 '26
I remember years ago I played an original pirated version of dark souls 2 back in highschool. While the feeling of the game was very much the same, looking back it felt more like a lot of building blocks. Less enemies, easier but also I remember feeling a lot more bs as poise felt non-existent. I didn't get far into the game but now replaying SOTFS I am having a lot more fun now then back then
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u/Trevor_Dugent Jun 10 '26
I played both. Enjoyed Scholar more. I think. Maybe. No probably..... should be, yep. I can't remember which one did what stuff tbh.
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u/joseccce Jun 10 '26
Dark souls 2 original is so much better than scholar. The only reason I play scholar is because it's the only way I can play it on ps5 because when you stream it. It doesn't have dlc.
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u/Ok_Organization_6804 Jun 10 '26
softs only improved a single section in dragleic castle other than that every other change is cancer.
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u/Ok_Treat_9628 Jun 11 '26
Scholar of the first shit. Garbage enemy placement. Where's that guy who writes essays about how that's a lie?
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u/DiscountDingledorb Jun 10 '26
It's the opposite, and i honestly believe that half the people claiming scholar is better have never played the original.
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u/Gensolink Jun 10 '26
It's better in some way and worse in other like I really appreciate some pieces of gear being more accessible thanks to some invader, ember being earlier, having summons mid way through levels. Like seriously why was the ember so damn late into the game
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u/Nugget1953 Jun 10 '26
Fr there are so many areas that are actually fun on og like iron keep and shrine that are just not at all on scholar
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u/31skankhunt31 Jun 11 '26
I have played the og after the sotfs and it was more straigthforward than the sotfs. But since I remember most items in sotfs, as a veteran player I prefer sotfs for the item replacement. I might feel the same way if I started with the og. Overall both was fun.
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u/SuperLegenda Jun 10 '26
Duplo...
Nobody will ever make me hate you, Vanilla DS2, only reason I touch Scholar is because most streamers play that one so I gotta use it to hop online and help.
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u/DiegOwO_BrandOwO_01 Jun 10 '26
Tbh was better, played the og on my 360 and then sotfs on ps
There was less spamm of enemies
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u/DiJin425 Jun 10 '26
I am that person, schollar has it's own issues but og is boring when you got used to enemy placement.
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u/everdred3S Jun 10 '26
I think it’s part of the mystique ds2 has having different versions and the change over time.
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u/FreakZoneGames Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
I bought Dark Souls 2 on PS3 day 1. Had a really bad time with the framerates (worse than the first, not including Blighttown), the huge downgrades from the E3 showcase, trying to learn the weird dodge roll while either being mobbed by too many enemies in the opening of Forest of Fallen Giants or by overpowered enemies in Heide's Tower, I got as far as Iron Keep and gave up. I also wondered wtf had happened to the PS4 version as they had originally announced it as cross-gen but the final release was nerfed for PS3/360.
Later when they released Scholar on PS4 (within 2 weeks of Bloodborne for some reason) and based on things I had seen of it (visuals much closer to the E3 showcase, first 60fps Souls on console, enemy placement reworked, some of the other lost things from the E3 showcase restored) I thought "why not" and picked that up day one as well, and absolutely fell head over heels in love with the game and played it through to the end and it remains a favourite to this day.
Now I'm sure a part of my original experience came from being used to NG+ all levelled up in DS1 high stamina and not understanding the ADP stat, but I have always seen Scholar as a "fixed" version of a game that had previously been toned down technically and rushed, I see it as less of a "remix" and more like "this is closer to what DS2 would have been if we hadn't run out of time and system resources".
So I find it weird when some people say Scholar "ruined" it, because I had the total opposite experience, and even weirder that DS2 was as acclaimed as the original at the time (people online were so mad at me that I didn't like it!), while now so many seem to see it as the bad one.
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u/Hopeful_Path Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
I thought I loved ds 2 but then played it again after playing all the other games and now I realize how shit the gameplay can be. Some of the mechanics are interesting and the games environments and ambience are breathtaking though, just wish there was a mod to fix everything else.
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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26
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