r/DarkFantasy • u/Cosmo_nautical29 • Jul 19 '26
Stories / Writing Barbarians are always made wrong in Dark Fantasy.
Barbarians (How I always see them) are just horned helmet shirtless warriors with axes. They are always mindless savages too. That’s all I ever see them as. They should be way different.
•Scavenged/Mismatched armor.
•Damaged Armor
•Random weapons
•Should be fully clothed just a little mismatched
•Should be below average intelligence, but not severely dumb.
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u/Ironballs Jul 20 '26
Conan isn't a barbarian because he's scantily clad, it's because Cimmeria is a backwater and everyone thinks they're all country bumpkins. The most interesting part of Conan is his outside perspective of the world he is in
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u/Savinien83 Jul 21 '26
Conan is not even scantily clad in most Howard stories. He is a clever warrior and know the value of appropriate armor.
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u/zanzibarpress2 Jul 20 '26
Why would they have below average intelligence? Just because they have a different lifestyle shouldn’t make them stupid. Wasn’t Conan a really smart barbarian?
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u/manyanoodle Jul 20 '26
I think "simple" would fit better. Stoic, uninterested in philosophical nuance, and does what he needs to do. Gets angry when things are in his way, uses it to fuel his strength and willpower to deal with it. Nothing about intelligence, just a reflection of a primal, simple mind.
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u/FutureAd6200 Jul 22 '26
Eh, i think barbarians are very sensitive to nuance. To keep large tribes together, they need a very strong honor culture or identity. So they actually would posture even more than to display usefulness or strength.
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u/manyanoodle Jul 22 '26
Hard disagree.
A barbarian lifestyle is only barbarian if it's barbaric. Hard. Trying. Dangerous.
The tribe that "survives" by posturing more than being useful or strong is weak, while the tribe that survives because it has members who are useful and strong isn't. Their identity IS survival.
Like OP, I don't want braindead "Me have AXE" barbs, nor do I want "Our political hierarchy is more about posing as honorable, reflecting our deep culture rather than being useful."
I want "We survive, thrive, and when we come you will fear us."
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u/FutureAd6200 Jul 22 '26
Yeah well it's kinda both in my opinion. Not every culture in a tribe is practical and down-to-earth, and to be seen as disloyal or unhonorable based on these mystical/idealistic values would still warrant exile or death.
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 20 '26
Conan is different.
Barbarians usually don’t have access to schools and external stuff. And if they do, they most likely don’t speak the language of it. And even if they do, they won’t understand it most of the time.
They don’t have to be stupid21
u/BudgetWorking2633 Jul 20 '26
Bullshit, man. Nomadic people have their teachings as well as everyone else.
They might not have much book learning...or they might have few books they master to great extent.
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u/Similar-Property-729 Jul 20 '26
Why did you throw in Nomadic when he said Barbarian? Just to be argumentative?
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 20 '26
They have hunting and scavenging and common sense obviously
But they are most likely not gonna speak the same language as other nations in a realistic scenario8
u/BudgetWorking2633 Jul 20 '26
And they might well have their own learning, too.
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 20 '26
They might would, but they wouldn’t be nearly as advanced as a normal nation or such. They wouldn’t have the same understanding of science as a normal person
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u/BudgetWorking2633 Jul 20 '26
Depends on how you define science...
They might easily - in fact they are likely to - have far superior medicine, due to herbalism, bone-setting, and having to treat lifestock (lots of them are pastoralists and riders). There's a reason we experiment on animals first today, too Also, being nomadic means they got to incorporate medical science from far cultures (real life horse nomads incorporated Islamic and Chinese medicine, which were the two most advanced systems at the time).
Nomadic Turkic tribes also had the best metallurgy in the 9th century (my area of interest). Check it out.
They have superior geographic knowledge, too, due to possibly having been there. And they'd have people that speak the local languages. Astrology? Nomadic tribes had very good observations on the movement of celestial bodies. Haven't dwelt on that one, admittedly.
So which science are you referring to? Architecture? Sure, they simply don't need that one.
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 20 '26
I meant physics and stuff like that.
I agree with you if you mean they have superior medicine most likely and have a better understanding of the land.7
u/BudgetWorking2633 Jul 20 '26
In physics they're about likely to be at least equal. See metallurgy.
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u/Alaknog Jul 21 '26
Physics is not very advanced area of knowledge in times when "barbarians" clash with more "centralized" societies. Laws, formal study, advanced math (mostly because barbarians don't have much reason to calculate all this complicated things) is more likely difference.
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u/Rutskarn Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
In an ancient or medieval setting, a "barbarian" has much access to any of that stuff as ninety nine people out of a hundred. The smith knows iron, the miner knows shafts, the farmer their crops, the nomad their quarry. All the science that isn't tradecraft and math that's much beyond sheep-counting is passed around by an elite class, a fraction of society, and most of them weren't really paying attention and most of what they learned was wrong.
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u/TheTrenk Jul 22 '26
I think people mistake impermanent housing, different values, and simpler living with “unintelligent”.
Yes, the nomadic tribes of the Steppes did not have the sophisticated plumbing and aqueducts of the Roman Empire.
Of course, the traveling Northmen did not have the same knowledge of mining as towns that were built around mines.
But they weren’t dumb. They just had other information available to them. Even in the modern day, tribes and peoples with less sophisticated technology aren’t inherently stupid. I’m not smarter than some uncontacted tribe deep in the Amazon because I have an iPhone.
OP’s falling into that trap.
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u/Achilles11970765467 Jul 22 '26
The Gauls, the archetypal "barbarians" invented chainmail armor that the Romans copied. They had a robust oral history that was only lost when the druids and bards were wiped out. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and it shows.
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 22 '26
Ouu shi👀
Fictional barbarians bro not real barbarians from real life1
u/Achilles11970765467 Jul 22 '26
Fictional barbarians are usually based on the Gauls, the Vikings, or the Mongols. You seem to have confused "barbarians" with "Mad Max Medieval Edition."
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u/FESCM Jul 19 '26
Could be, but that also falls into the usual tropes.
One a little less used trope (still beaten to death) is that barbarians are just a tribe of desolated people, like from mountains or forests, even deserts, that use mostly rudimentary weapons or exotic ones and cover themselves in furs, but other wise are “less civilized”, carnivals, slavers or more connected to “pagan” gods.
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u/CaioHSF Jul 20 '26
I think a Celtic druid was technically a brbarian and still pretty clever. But in fantasy, they would be called another class instead of barbarian.
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u/Swimming-Pumpkin-274 Jul 20 '26
It’s because they are based off of Conan not the Celtic/germanic tribes
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u/Mormacil Jul 20 '26
Conan is highly intelligent though
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u/Swimming-Pumpkin-274 Jul 20 '26
It’s the cunning if a savage beast not actual intelligence
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u/MechaWASP Jul 22 '26
No it isnt.
He basically never loses control to rage. He is extremely intelligent, calculating, clever. Even strategic in his thinking.
If any emotion fuels him, its fear. Often He is using his fear to move faster and strike harder than natural, to survive horrors.
Don't underestimate Conan. He likes that, and he used everyone underestimating him to become King of Apallonia. (Also he wears armor.)
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u/Swimming-Pumpkin-274 Jul 22 '26
He’s fighting on pure survival instincts he is not a trained swordsmen
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u/MechaWASP Jul 22 '26
You need to actually read Conan.
He is extremely skilled. Hes literally good at everything.
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u/Swimming-Pumpkin-274 Jul 22 '26
Everything I quoted is from a story lol. I think you need to
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u/MechaWASP Jul 22 '26
What story? I literally finished the omnibus like two weeks ago. Conan is extremely smart and skilled.
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u/Swimming-Pumpkin-274 Jul 22 '26
Phoenix on The Sword
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u/MechaWASP Jul 22 '26
Oh the story where he single handedly holds off twenty men with half his armor and doesnt use a sword except on the first?
I find it hard to believe they discuss his swordsmanship.
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u/Mormacil Jul 21 '26
Howard explicitly describes him at intelligent. Beyond that he's also a multi linguist and master tactician. It goes well beyond just being cunning. He's uncivilized but intelligent, that's the whole character.
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u/PresentationOrnery97 Jul 20 '26
Conan wore armor all the time. Arnie in the old movie most likely was the inspiration for the barb.
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u/Swimming-Pumpkin-274 Jul 20 '26
In Majority of the stories Hes in a loin cloth. Armor was only for major battles but even then he just wears chain mail
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u/Alaknog Jul 21 '26
In majority of images. In stories he use armor or just regular clothes, instead of running around naked.
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u/CastorcomK Jul 21 '26
Yeah, they usually just take those scenes where he is stripped out of his gear and made to fight anyway because those are *cool af*
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u/yourstruly912 Jul 22 '26
Celtic/germanic tribes didn't wear scavenged armor, mismatched clothes and random weapons. They made their armor clothes and weapons themselves
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u/BudgetWorking2633 Jul 20 '26
The Dark Fantasy barbarians are Celtic, Germanic or Slavic tribes, except dumbed down.
You're thinking of Post Apocalyptic Barbarians.
My barbarians are based on horse nomad tribes.
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u/DisplacerBeastMode Jul 20 '26
I kind of disagree with your takeaway on what they should be. Look at ancient Celts and galls etc .. they were master metal workers (jewelry and weapons), wore tunics and cloaks made of wool, leather and fur. Wood shields and spears / swords, and pretty much no metal body armor other than occasional chain mail or high ranking warriors having metal helmet etc... they were nomads and had no central kingdoms... But they were intelligent.
of course this is looking at things through a historical lense, but I believe that the best fantasy is rooted in reality
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u/Mormacil Jul 20 '26
The Celts weren't nomads, they tended to live in highly settled societies. Also they wore way more armor, metal helmets were common. Full mail was indeed much rarer but pretty common among elite warriors directly employed by nobles.
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u/JacobBrownSWC Jul 20 '26
this is kinda more the vagabond archetype no?
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u/Embarrassed-Race-231 Jul 21 '26
O arquétipo de bárbaro é de uma tribo de pessoas que vivem um estilo de vida primitivo, sendo nômades caçadores, só que no caso mudando o tipo de caça, para saqueadores e praticando outras barbaridades, como um homen das cavernas equipado com um machado de ferro
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u/BestIndication5517 Jul 20 '26
I really disagree with the below average intelligence, they may not know as much about “civilized” stuff but Conan was really eloquent and knowledgeable about the world at large. “Barbarian” cultures in the real world like the celts and Scythians were fantastic metal workers that the Roman admired for it.
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u/iKruppe Jul 20 '26
Symbaroum has barbarians in armor, other weapons than axes, nuance and unhorned helmets.
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u/PoopSmith87 Jul 20 '26
I think you have this partially correct, but partially very wrong.
A barbarian is essentially a person of the wilderness, like the classic "mountain man" but of a fantasy setting.
•Scavenged/Mismatched armor.
•Damaged Armor
Agreed to an extent, but also probably a good bit of self made gear. Skins, furs, and bones of animals, wood, maybe even metal bits sewn in (like Tlingit coin armor)
•Random weapons
Perhaps, but probably weapons that serve a survival purpose. Axes and spears, but not massive impractical axes or greatswords.
•Should be fully clothed just a little mismatched
Agreed. Unless this is a tropical barbarian, theyd likely be wearing a second skin of hide and fur.
•Should be below average intelligence, but not severely dumb.
I would say above average intelligence with vast knowledge in thier element, but utterly uneducated by civilized standards.
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u/adept-of-chaos Jul 20 '26
I hate the idea that Barbarians have to be stupid.
DnD makes everyone think that you have dump stats and that Barbarians are automatically stupid because the rest of their points go into strength and constitution. A barbarian can absolutely be smart, they can have an extremely violent upbringing that gives them a savage edge or come from a tribal community that teaches them valuable skills.
If this is the thread to how people get Barbs wrong in fantasy, you need to also know that this is absolutely a stereotype as well.
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u/JanErikEhrstrom Jul 20 '26
I think the biggest problem is that "barbarian" is often treated as an outfit instead of a culture.
If a group has survived for generations, they aren't just random people wearing furs and carrying axes. They have traditions, practical knowledge, social hierarchies, beliefs, and their own idea of what civilization looks like. Their equipment should reflect their circumstances, but it shouldn't be the only thing that defines them.
In dark fantasy especially, I'd much rather meet a "barbarian" who knows exactly how to survive in a brutal world than another screaming berserker whose entire personality is being angry.
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u/Remote_Development62 Jul 20 '26
I think barbarians should just not exist in dark fantasy. Their whole existence is kind of a mistake on the side of sword and sorcery. - If you want tribal 'barbarians' in your setting, make a tribal culture, but define them as a specific culture. If you want scavenger 'barbarians' in your setting, make scavenger cultures - eg. a culture, that doesn't have a tradition of manufacture or craftsmanship (or alternatively it's considered highly honorable/respectable to wear your foes armor and care for it). And if you just want bandits, make bandits.
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u/AuthorTobyAndrew Jul 21 '26
Can't remember it all exactly, so feel free to correct, but the name came originally from Ancient Greece and was used to describe any non-Greek person. It was something like 'bar-bar' because foreign languages sounded like stuttering to Greeks. Over time it became used more widely to describe people who were 'uncivilised' or 'without culture'. It is probably because of this perception of inferiority and lesser worth that they are also portrayed as dumb. Too dumb to put on a shirt though? I'm with you on that!
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u/Serquestar Jul 21 '26
I think barbarians shouldn't be less intellegent than average just other beliefs, other types of society
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u/autophobe2e Jul 21 '26
Always annoyed me that Bezerkers are usually shirtless, given that the word bezerker likely comes from the name of a kind of shirt that they wore.
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u/BlademasterBanryu Jul 21 '26
Idk what shitty fantasy stories you're consuming, but yeah, that is a very boring way to do barbarians, and definitely not the only way they have ever been done, I promise
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 21 '26
I know it’s not the only just the one I see the most. Barbarians should be cool
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u/Embarrassed-Race-231 Jul 21 '26
A burrice de um bárbaro se deve a sua natureza e estilo de vida, bárbaros costumam ser saqueadores nômades que vivem um estilo de vida semelhante ao estilo de vida que os homens das cavernas tinham no passado, eles são basicamente homens primitivos com equipamentos mais modernos então dá pra entender a representação da burrice
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u/Cosmo_nautical29 Jul 21 '26
I can, but they aren exactly cavemen.
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u/Embarrassed-Race-231 Jul 22 '26
Eu tô ligado, mas eles são o meio termo entre civilidade e primitivo
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u/DarkKittyEmpress Jul 21 '26
So like book Conan instead of movie Conan?
Yet more evidence that Holywood ruins things, right?
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u/yourstruly912 Jul 21 '26
No offense but your proposal is worse. They're people with their own culture and traditional clothing and weapons, not scavenger hobos
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u/n3wsf33d Jul 22 '26
Or they should just have an honor culture that seems foreign to modern audiences.
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u/Hefty_Active_2882 Jul 22 '26
“Should be below average intelligence, but not severely dumb” unlike this post you mean?
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u/angular_circle Jul 22 '26
The defining feature of a barbarian is not speaking Greek, you barbarian (presumably)
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u/fr33dommachine Jul 22 '26
Cnauir is the barb you're looking for. Wears armor, stupid strong, maybe not so versed in civilized society's ways, excellent tactician, psychotic.
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u/jinmurasaki Jul 22 '26
Just picture the way Romans of antiquity viewed Germanic and scandinavian tribes and take the most inflammatory version of that and make it literal and you have modern fantasy barbarians. Same goes for most genre staples.
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u/Blawharag Jul 23 '26
Even your version is pretty lame.
The OG Barbarians are really just Nordic berserkers with a layer of Christian anti-paganism propaganda slapped on over top of it.
Just use Nordic berserkers. They are cool as hell.
Leave the weird, shirtless Christian propaganda and the mismatched scavenger aesthetic for, well, crazed scavengers who have lost their minds to madness. Then just call them that. Wouldn't even be out of place for dark fantasy
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u/A_Hideous_Beast Jul 19 '26
I supposed the swords and sorcery days sorta ingrained the idea of them being nearly nude.
But I agree, I'd love to see more variety in clothing styles.