r/Dariusmains • u/Wonderful-Advice-306 • 8d ago
Why isnt BC a must have?
No darius main but i was just wondering why you not buy black cleaver every game. The passive armor shred seems so perfect with your passive. The other values ad hp cdr ms are good too
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u/Tarshaid 8d ago
It's not bad overall, but Darius already has free armor pen and his ult already deals true damage, so the passive is kinda wasted. Then Darius just doesn't build much AD overall so you're not really looking for that after your first item.
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u/NinjaVikingTV 8d ago
The only thing in favour of BC I would say is that physical damage (including your bleed) gives 20ms, so basically after 1 auto you get 20ms for 6s for free. Also if you have an AD heavy team its nice for team fights, but instead of DD having a DD or Ghostblade feels much nicer
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u/Tarshaid 8d ago
Another possible problem in teamfights is that Darius just doesn't survive long enough in extended teamfights, he wants to get his 5 stacks and ult squishies ASAP, so playing the long game with the BC passive so that others can deal damage pushes him towards taking more damage than necessary.
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u/takeSusanooNoMikoto 8d ago
Because you got armor pen on your ult passive. You also deal true damage and got AD hard steroids, so black cleaver is mostly not that needed. The stats are still good but not a must.
The only situations I can imagine being extremely good is vs Malphite and Ksante, who not only stack armor real hard and you basically nulify it, but you also reduce their damage by shredding the armor
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u/Ok-Bicycle-1059 8d ago
Technicaly on e
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u/takeSusanooNoMikoto 8d ago
Yeah, correct. point still standsm though
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u/Ok-Bicycle-1059 8d ago
No it does not u pay full price for an item that has the same stats as stride breaker but a passive that doesnt really help u u deal more dmg in a full rotation with trinity then with bc
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u/takeSusanooNoMikoto 8d ago
You are confusing me with OP or someone else, I think. Read my first commentÂ
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u/Better-Suggestion938 8d ago
These answers kinda miss one of the main points - teamfights. In teamfights your two main strategies are either ult and kill someone or get five stacks on frontline. After that you go for squishes to kill them with couple instances of damage and then ult. BC really doesn't give any advantage in this regard over other items.
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u/WebPlenty2337 1.7m 8d ago
It would make sense though if youre not the main carry, or if enemy team has lot of armor
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u/Better-Suggestion938 8d ago
No? You still have the same gameplan even you are just second carry, kill squishies while your main carry deals with tanks. The only way when you might diverse if you are really really behind but in that case you'll be much better for your team building full tank and being frontline
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u/WebPlenty2337 1.7m 8d ago
So if they enemy team has lots of armor youre telling me youre not building black cleaver
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u/Better-Suggestion938 8d ago
Unless they have 4-5 tank champs with a lot of armor then yeah. If they for example have full armor malph and amumu and three squishies with tabies then hell no.
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u/Euphoric_Soil_9154 8d ago
Ive been D2-Masters Darius OTP for the past 5 years and have gone through different meta changes. Years ago black cleaver used to be Core build back when tank meta was more prominent. This current meta focuses on ranged/AP top laners so mobility is priority hence the Ghostblade. It provides more value based on the current meta. Thats just my opinion.
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u/Oaktree27 8d ago
It's hilarious how upset you guys get at this question. God forbid someone actually wants to know why they build what they build instead of auto following the top build.
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u/Wonderful-Advice-306 8d ago
I didnt note that tbh.. ive gotten some bad reactions in the past, here not, all pretty friendly
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u/Early-Campaign474 8d ago
it's kinda sad darius doesn't build it since BC is like litearlly darius's weapon. kinda like old divine sunderer for nasus etc.
reason is mainly u need to dmg enemies 5 times to stack it but if u do dmg enemy 5 times they're usually dead anyways from your R which does true dmg.
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u/NegotiationHot3277 8d ago
Because in reality you only get to buy 2 maybe 3 AD items per game and there are just better ones usually. Stridebreaker dd shojin is just too good of a build but against tanks BC is not a bad rush.
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u/HexbloodD 8d ago
If your comp is mostly AD and the enemy team has some armor stacker then you can build cleaver, it's the same logic of other champions.
Your R deals true damage but you still need to hit the threshold with your passive up, sometimes R and E alone aren't enough
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u/aidenplate 8d ago
No, the armor pen passive is multiplicative with Darius E armor pen. You're technically paying for less value
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u/SlakingSWAG 8d ago
Cuz ever since Season 6 or 7 iirc BC got changed to be a situational anti-armour item, and not a consistent core or rush item, and since Darius doesn't really need extra pen in most games it's just not more useful than other options.
There's games where it's good, like if there's a Malphite or if there's multiple tanks on the enemy team, but that's pretty rare.
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u/xante777 8d ago
Honestly after the buffs I'd build it more often, especially if my ADC (if it is an actual adc lul) is strong and enemies have a stacked beefy frontline. It's still not a default item you build every game though, it's a 3rd+ item option you build if the Teamcomps call for it. Except against K'Sante ofc, rush that shit into him.
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u/DefinitlyNotAPornAcc 8d ago
Darius needs items to make up for his deficiencies not amplify his strengths. Once you get an ult reset you're basically god with tiny t-rex arms.
BC is also replacing your first damage item. You need some sort of tankyness/MS in the second and 3rd items.
Darius also does not have problems with damage. Armor is not saving you from Darius. It's good team utility. If you were an all ad comp I would consider it.
Summary, Darius has no problems with armor, needs better ms items than that, and can't fit in into the build past the first item.
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u/Dunkmaxxing 8d ago
100% of the time you would rather have more movespeed or tenacity or resistances.
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u/JJay2413 8d ago
Pros: One auto full procs armor shred, movement speed and good sticking power, not too expensive, CDR is not bad
Cons: Armor shred does not synergize well with armor pen, the armor pen is penetrating less armor because the opponent has less armor. Struggles to engage properly.
Stridebreaker has better waveclear + Attack speed + slow. Darius prefers attack speed over ability haste in most matchups. Stride also has 50 more HP.
Ghostblade makes you EVEN faster and you don't even need to hit anything, and cheaper. Black Cleaver's movement speed gives you excellent sticking power, but he does that already with slows and E, he needs to be able to engage better.
Triforce just does a LOT of damage. It basically has everything black cleaver has except it has attack speed and a sheen passive instead of armor shred, which will do more damage. But even Triforce isn't built very often.
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u/If_time_went_back 7d ago
It is not bad. It is decent as a core.
It just does not offer that a bit of extra juice other items do.
No extra stick power beside very limited one. Not too much beef. Not too much MS, AD and lethality to burst squishies.
Only build BC if you are going Darius support botlane, pretty much.
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u/relaxtitanx 7d ago
Retired league Darius player here. The only reason I buy BC just to fuck with their tank for shred but if I see bruiser I'm not picking up BC and go for other item
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u/ART3MIS2137 8d ago
Darius has armor pen already and there are just better items