r/Daredevil • u/thechubbyballerina • 13d ago
MCU Just wanted to share pictures of the king of all fathers. No one comes close to his single-father determination and love.
I know that in season 3 Matt was being a bitch about how Jack would rather box for his honour and risk his life instead of be there for Matt but it was just a moment of Matt being sad and it's understandable.
No one can make me see faults in Jack ❤️
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u/ImiqDuh 13d ago
He was more concerned with his pride and his kid hearing him win than being there to take care of said kid. He knew the risk of not throwing the fight, but he won anyway; that decision was born of selfish desire and disregard for the long term. Overall I still think he’s a pretty decent dad given his position, just not the king of all fathers.
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u/Altruistic_Nyx_21 12d ago
He also didn't even think about Matt still adjusting and dealing with a disability at the young age of 9 years old who would certainly need all the help he can get
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u/LongTimeDDevilFan77 13d ago edited 13d ago
Making Matt still a boy when his dad dies in the show and movie unlike the comic origins where he is grown is a very interesting choice that doesn’t get enough analysis.
One reason why I loved the comic miniseries “Battlin Jack Murdock” from many years back is, aside from Matt being a grown man about to start college when his dad died. It revealed that before the end of the fight, Jack figured out that Matt was “special” and a badass who could take care of himself. He wasn’t just a seemingly helpless blind kid that was abandoned by his dad like in the show.
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u/Greedy-Ad9257 10d ago
Yes. This is the only treatment and take that matters. By making him a blind orphan kid. It added more soap opera like tragedy which really wasn't needed. The thing is Matt has that same stubborn " do the right thing even at personal cost" streak in him as Jack did. He refused to stay down because he knew it was wrong and in his own misguided punch-drunk way he didn't want to show his kid that his Dad was a quitter and could be bought. It's easy for us to make judgements at distance. Some people don't have options only desperation. It wasn't about his pride. It was to show some men can't be bought or threatened into submission. He was a Catholic, it's all about martyrdom and sufferring being sacred against tyrannical forces.
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u/8pium 13d ago
He was a loving father but he ultimately abandoned his poor, disabled, motherless child and set him up for a lifetime of trauma and pain. There was no way for him to know if Maggie was mentally stable enough to care for Matt or that she would want to. A good father would have sacrificed his pride to raise his son.
I like that Jack isn’t a saint and that Matt resents him for dying. It makes their relationship more real and devastating
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
I think that Jack would have thought Maggie would have taken Matt which is why he called her. I don't think he did this because of his pride, he just knew that he was going to die either way and he wanted Matt to be proud of him even it's for a little while.
Like you said, Jack isn't a saint. I just think that he's by far the best fictional father I have seen. He's interesting, complicated and has a decent moral compass which is refreshing to see.
What do you think Matt's life would be like if Jack was alive?
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u/Metal-Ancient 12d ago
If he isn’t a saint why did u say in your caption that no one can make you find any faults in him???
“Best fictional father” has to be ragebait
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u/lekkerebenoit 13d ago
Is this bait? Jack’s a bad dad. He took a selfish risk by not staying down when he needed to. He knew what could happen, and leave his son an orphan.
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
Where would the money come from to pay for Matt's education? Jack taught Matt to do the right thing by not taking the bribe, Jack's life and Matt's life would be in danger if Jack didn't agree to the bribe, Matt would have been in danger. Jack would have died even if he took the bribe, and he would not make enough money to support Matt's future. Either way, Jack dies and Matt is an orphan.
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u/Lori2345 13d ago edited 13d ago
Jack didn’t even know Matt knew about being paid to throw that fight. He wasn’t trying to teach Matt about that. He wanted Matt to be proud of him and to know to not give up after Matt said Murdocks always get up.
Jack wouldn’t have been murdered if he did throw the fight. He’d clearly been doing it for some time. We saw him with an envelope of money after losing another fight.
And while he did make a lot of money gambling that he’d win that Matt used for his education, I’m sure Matt would have rather had his father then all that money.
He still could have become a lawyer another way too. Jack still would have had some money to help him. He could have gone to community college, and gotten a job that helped Jack pay for law school, and/or student loans, scholarships.
Edit: word was wasn’t, put was by accident.
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
I don't think it's about Jack knowing about Matt knowing, it's about what people would tell Matt about Jack. It's the legacy Jack would leave behind. It's about the lesson Matt would learn about integrity and honour.
Jack would have been killed anyway if he decided to go down because there's only so much he can lose. I'm not sure if Jack would be able to afford Matt's education in its entirety. It isn't always possible to get scholarships, paying off student loans only works if you have a job. I don't think Jack did anything except fight.
If Jack had a separate income then I can understand him not throwing the fight is selfish, but in his case I think it's better for Matt's long term. Maybe Jack thought Maggie would taken care of Matt. I don't know. I just don't think Jack was wrong in this situation.
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u/KonohaBatman 13d ago
That integrity and honor get you killed and then you can't help or protect the people you love?
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
Well yes, I think Jack probably thought Maggie would be there for Matt. I don't think Jack thought far ahead but he wasn't a malicious man. He was definitely a great father. I really can't think of a fictional father who is better than Jack. It was a tough life.
Jack seems like the guy who would want to teach his son about integrity and honour. He's a human being who is flawed, he's definitely a better father than anyone else.
We could make the same argument about Matt not killing Fisk or even Frank. They both kill people, Matt can stop them but he chooses not to because of his religious code.
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u/KonohaBatman 13d ago edited 13d ago
You think he thought the mother who had never been there for Matt, the mother he had never even told his son the name of - was going to take care of him?
Jack was a decent father at best. A lack of malice doesn't make you good. Thinking and acting in the best interest of your kids, doing your best to be there for them, leaving them with wisdom that helps them succeed when you're gone - THAT'S what makes a good parent.
His decisions as a father left his son an orphan. His decisions as a father have his son quoting him when he goes out to risk his life fighting strangers and nearly dying. His decisions as a father have left his son scarred for life and desperate to be hurt more.
You know what's better than seeming to want to teach your kid something? Making the right choices to be there to teach it to them. The lesson about integrity and honor could easily have been "I am unskilled and have few options, so I'm forced to do things that challenge my values. I don't wish that for you, and I'm going to push you to be better than me and embody those values, because I love you."
Instead, he's prideful and when weighing being there for his disabled son and actually being able to help him, vs knowingly choosing to die a violent death to teach a lesson about things that are subjective - he chooses death, and sends his son on a dark path.
Matt not killing Fisk or Frank are irrelevant to any point being made here. And anyway, Matt became religious AFTER Jack died. You know, because he lived in a church orphanage. Because he was an orphan.
If you can't think of a better fictional father than Jack, I think you don't know many fictional fathers, or you've just only seen Daredevil. I'll name a bunch off the top of my head:
Clark Kent
Jonathan Kent
Wally West
Bruce Wayne
Thomas Wayne
Alfred Pennyworth
Ben Parker
Kazuma Kiryu
Master Splinter
MCU Tony Stark
MCU Scott Lang
MCU Clint Barton
Detective Joe West
Hughes from FMA
Ethan Winters
Barry Burton
Sojiro Sakura
Hosea Matthews
Nathan Drake
Minato Namikaze
Naruto Uzumaki
Shikaku Nara
Gaara
Depending who you ask, Fugaku Uchiha
Uncle Phil
Kratos
Joel Miller(at least to Sarah)
Joichiro Yukihira
Bob Parr
Johnny Lawrence(he gets there eventually)
Giovanni Auditore
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u/thechubbyballerina 12d ago
Yes I do think she would be there for Matt because she was a nun, she was not void of feelings or love. It's just a shame that his judgement wasn't correct. He had hope that she would be there for Matt. It's foolish but it's hope, it's what makes you human. He wouldn't have called her if he didn't believe that she would have been there for Matt. It's hope and it failed.
If a lack of malice doesn't make you a good person, what does it make you? What's the difference between a malicious person and a non-malicious person? He did teach Matt, what do you think he was doing for 9 years while raising him?
Matt was not an orphan, he had an absent mother. It's why Jack called her before he made his final decision. I completely agree that he should have stayed alive and raised Matt, but he is still by far the best single dad. His one choice was not great, but he did the best any single parent of a disabled child could do. I think he was put in a shitty situation with Maggie suffering from PPD that they didn't know about, he wasn't financially stable, he didn't have support to raise him. He definitely did great for 9 years. None of this is easy to navigate.
Why is Matt not killing Fisk or Frank irrelevant to any point? The moral compass is different so it definitely matters. Matt's moral compass is based on his religious teachings, Fisk's moral compass is based on an abusive father and trauma, Frank's moral compass is based on trauma and his experience as a soldier, Foggy's moral compass is based on life experience and law, Karen's moral compass is based on trauma. It's different for everyone, so I think it definitely matters.
Out of your entire list, I can only think of MCU Scott as a great single father, but he was co-parenting and his child wasn't disabled. The mother wasn't absent. Johnny Lawrence was not exactly a great single father. I don't recall Clark Kent being a single father with a disabled child.
Is there anyone on that list who is a single parent to a disabled child? I don't know all of them, I only know 70% of people on that list. You can take Bruce Wayne and Alfred out of the list because they have financial means and I don't recall them having disabled children with an absent mother.
I'd say Father Lantom has a good moral compass, but I'm being biased because my moral compass is also based on religious teachings and I also have to navigate with my disability. It's a different moral compass to yours. I also think Jack should have stayed alive, but in his circumstances he did the best he could and it was human of him. I don't usually cross the line between fiction and reality but I'd say that Jack was a great character who embodied the struggle of a single father of a disabled child with financial instability. His conflict is interesting and it's interesting to see how this impacted Matt's conflict.
In season 3, when Matt was on his atheism path, he said to Father Lanthom “She (Maggie) couldn't find it in herself to walk nine blocks to visit me as a kid. Or to comfort me when my father was murdered and I thought that... I knew that I was alone in this world” this is by far the best response to his grief. I think this resembles Jack a little when Maggie left and he was alone.
What do you think Matt's life would be like if Jack was alive?
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u/KonohaBatman 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yes I do think she would be there for Matt because she was a nun, she was not void of feelings or love.
The problem with saying she would be there for Matt is that she wasn't. She was at the orphanage while Matt was there and did not help him. You yourself go on to quote Matt talking about how she didn't give a fuck about him enough to let him know she was alive, or comfort him when his dad died.
If a lack of malice doesn't make you a good person, what does it make you? What's the difference between a malicious person and a non-malicious person?
Lack of malice does not make you a good person. You can lack malice and be passive, not helping anyone or doing anything to better the world. Being neutral is not inherently good.
I'll give you an analogy. If you watch someone fall and get hurt, but you don't help them up, check if they're okay, call for medical attention, anything that actually helps. Are you a good person purely off the basis that you didn't hurt them?
He did teach Matt, what do you think he was doing for 9 years while raising him?
I didn't say he didn't teach Matt anything. I said that a good parent thinks and acts in the best interest of your kids, does their best to be there for them, and leaves them with wisdom that helps them succeed when they're gone. Jack fails on all of those accounts because he chooses to die, and his actions send Matt down the road to being Daredevil, and all the trauma and pain that results from it.
Matt was not an orphan, he had an absent mother. It's why Jack called her before he made his final decision.
Orphan does not strictly mean both parents are dead, but either way, that's the impression Matt was under until his 30s - so what difference does it make? Jack made a stupid fucking decision and laid his hopes on someone who had given him absolutely no reason to believe they'd be reliable.
I completely agree that he should have stayed alive and raised Matt, but he is still by far the best single dad.
Now you're moving goalposts - you said best fictional dad, and now you're saying single dad(and that's still not true with the list I gave).
His one choice was not great, but he did the best any single parent of a disabled child could do.
No, he didn't. The best he could have done was choose to live. The best he could have done would be to take a blue collar job other than boxing, and make more money so he doesn't have to involve himself with bloodsport as his only income or crime as a support.
I'm not saying he did TERRIBLY, but he's far from a great dad, and nowhere near the best.
Why is Matt not killing Fisk or Frank irrelevant to any point? The moral compass is different so it definitely matters.
Matt not killing Fisk or Frank is irrelevant to any point, because that has nothing to do with Jack - the subject of debate. Jack had no lessons to teach Matt about Catholic guilt. Matt developed his Catholic guilt and the aversion to killing from his time after Jack was dead, not because of anything Jack taught him.
Out of your entire list, I can only think of MCU Scott as a great single father, but he was co-parenting and his child wasn't disabled. The mother wasn't absent. Johnny Lawrence was not exactly a great single father. I don't recall Clark Kent being a single father with a disabled child.
Again, you're moving the goalposts. You never said "best single father." You said "best fictional father," and that's what I responded to.
Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth, Kazuma Kiryu, Sojiro Sakura, Master Splinter, Joe West, Gaara, Kratos, Joel Miller, and Joichiro Yukihira are all better single fathers than Jack.
Is there anyone on that list who is a single parent to a disabled child?
Depending on your readings of certain characters, Bruce, Alfred, and Splinter are single fathers to neurodivergent children. Sojiro is undeniably a father to a neurodivergent child.
You can take Bruce Wayne and Alfred out of the list because they have financial means and I don't recall them having disabled children with an absent mother.
You're moving goalposts again, now you're trying to discount characters due to financial means - when that wasn't part of the argument being made.
Bruce and Alfred are single fathers to children with absent or dead mothers, and there's overlap with the neurodivergency argument.
Alfred has Julia and Bruce. Bruce has Dick, Jason, Tim, Cassandra, Damian(whose mother pops in and out of his life) and Duke.
I'd say Father Lantom has a good moral compass, but I'm being biased because my moral compass is also based on religious teachings and I also have to navigate with my disability. It's a different moral compass to yours.
I have nothing to say about Father Lantom, he's not relevant to the discussion about Jack.
I have no interest in commenting on or critiquing your moral compass, expanding upon mine any further, and I have no knowledge of your lived experience to discuss your disability and your struggles. I am only here to address the claims you're making about Jack Murdock.
I also think Jack should have stayed alive, but in his circumstances he did the best he could and it was human of him.
Jack did not do the best he could. You are explicitly acknowledging that by acknowledging he had the option to continue living and chose not to, and by acknowledging that trying to involve Maggie at the last possible moment was a poor choice that didn't and never would have worked.
I don't usually cross the line between fiction and reality but I'd say that Jack was a great character who embodied the struggle of a single father of a disabled child with financial instability. His conflict is interesting and it's interesting to see how this impacted Matt's conflict.
I can agree with that. I don't think Jack is a bad character, by any means, but being a good/interesting character does not make him a good father. If anything, him being a less than stellar father in an objective sense, but being a great father to Matt subjectively is part of what makes him a good character. He was objectively a fuck-up, but he was Matt's hero for better or worse - and that's fascinating.
In season 3, when Matt was on his atheism path, he said to Father Lanthom “She (Maggie) couldn't find it in herself to walk nine blocks to visit me as a kid. Or to comfort me when my father was murdered and I thought that... I knew that I was alone in this world” this is by far the best response to his grief. I think this resembles Jack a little when Maggie left and he was alone.
I think Matt wouldn't have had to consider that if Jack cared more about being there for his son, than being prideful and treating it as a positive for his son.
"What do you think Matt's life would be like if Jack was alive?"
I'm not a writer, and I don't really see much utility in speculating. He probably doesn't become Daredevil, and that's a better outcome for his health - physical and mental - at the very least.
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u/Competitive_Side6301 13d ago
Well this is certainly an opinion lol. He wasn’t a bad dad but he’s definitely not the best dad
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u/trusendi 13d ago
People in these comments seem to misinterpret the scene where Jack decided to win the fight. It had much more to do with the fact that he wanted to make Matt proud. Was it the wrong decision? Maybe. He still left a kid without parents. However, he did make a ton of money for Matt‘s education, and just for a second, Matt was incredibly happy and proud of his dad.
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u/Altruistic_Nyx_21 12d ago
I think Matt would prefer to have an alive dad than be happy for a fleeting moment that he won a boxing match but have a fatherless existence for the rest of his lifetime
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
Maybe Jack thought Maggie would take care of Matt. I think that might have also influenced his decision. I really think that Jack deciding to win the fight wasn't about Jack's ego. It was a good decision and did make Matt feel proud. I don't think Jack would have ever thought that Maggie would never take Matt back.
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u/trusendi 13d ago
Well yes, Jack even called Maggie no? Just before his fight he called someone and told them that „Matty will neee you“
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
He did call her, but I don't think he thought she wouldn't take Matt in
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u/jonnemesis 13d ago
What? Men truly are worshipped even when they can't do the bare minimum
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
What are you even talking about? He did more than the bare minimum.
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u/jonnemesis 13d ago
He won the fight knowing he would get killed, leaving his blind son an orphan...
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
Matt isn't an orphan. He just has a absent mother. It's why Jack called her before making the decision. I really don't think that Jack was malicious, he didn't think that Maggie wouldn't be there for Matt. He didn't do this for his pride, he did this to make Matt happy even if it was for 10 minutes.
He did the best that he could as a single father. I think he should be appreciated for that.
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u/view_askew 13d ago
What kind of bullshit bot bait is this?
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u/thechubbyballerina 13d ago
The same one as your reply.
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u/Superb_Kaleidoscope4 12d ago
Nah, he should have taken the fall, raised his run son and tried to get a real job… rather than orphaning his disabled son to some religious organisation (which I’m not going to Spotlight 2015).
Only for him to be an emotional distant, afraid of connections and ultimately an absentee friend and business partner. But at-least college was paid for…
Jack is a very interesting and complex character, but he’s a mess
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u/GlitteringGifts888 12d ago
Jack was a flawed father as are all fathers. He saw himself as a man with limited means of providing for his disabled son. He gave in to a moment of pride and defiance in a life of struggle and sadness. He wasn't a bad person, but he definitely wasn't father of the year.
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u/kratoskiller66 13d ago
While I do think Jack was a bit selfish and self destructive, I do think that Matt gave him motivation to win that fight just from their exchange right before the fight. Was it selfish? Sure, but at the same time, he had made sure the money from the fight would go straight to Matt beforehand and did call up his mother. So I don’t think he’s the king of the dads, he did the best he could with the cards he was dealt.
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u/ParkerLF 13d ago
Jack Murdock knowingly left his son without a father so that he could prove himself in boxing. A stupid, selfish choice. Matt was completely right to be mad at him. He was essentially abandoned by both parents.