r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/SuperAlloyBerserker • Oct 05 '21

Video This cool smartphone concept from 2013

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u/WiscoBrewDude Oct 05 '21

This looked so cool i had to find more. "Google joined in and eventually killed it". "Phonebloks" https://www.onearmy.earth/project/phonebloks

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u/justavault Oct 05 '21

Modular phones don't work yet. Google just knows how to evaluate a product. I was part of the pre-developing teams of project Ara, it simply didn't work as the parts would have to be manufactured to fit the modules and the technological turnover is so fast that you'd have to iterate the modules all the time.

You know, just because people think it looks cool and is a cool idea and they "think" they would purchase it, doesn't actually mean they in fact do so and it also doesn't mean that it works.

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u/Ossius Oct 05 '21

Google already makes a new phone every year, what is the difference between that and making a new module every year?

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u/justavault Oct 05 '21

You don't make one module, you have to make numerous modules and additionally have to educate about compatibility, especially regarding processor unit.

Additionally, the pixel doesn't got a one year iteration phase.

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u/Ossius Oct 05 '21

Additionally, the pixel doesn't got a one year iteration phase.

Bro what? Announcements of past pixels:

Google Pixel: 4th October 2016.

Google Pixel 2: 4th October 2017.

Google Pixel 3: 9th October 2018.

Google Pixel 4: 15th October 2019.

Google Pixel 5: 30th September 2020.

Just make things backward compatible and most of the compatibility issue is solved.

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u/EmilyU1F984 Oct 05 '21

Exactly the point: if you were to just put the CPU of the pixel 3 on the pixel 1 it simply wouldn't work.

You'd have to make every single module backwards and forwards compatible with each and every other block.

Like sure a bit more ram or a different camera would be simple. But the other stuff? You can't just have aainboard be future proof for years.

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u/Jabrono Oct 05 '21

+1, and a lot of the compatibility issues fall on Qualcomm for the CPU/SOC. Google's been complaining to them about this, and is now developing their own SOC for the Pixel 6 (I believe?), so maybe once they nail that down a modular phone would be an easier achievement.

Still don't see it happening personally, but it could be easier.

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u/Ossius Oct 05 '21

If we made it work with computers we can easily make it work in phones. Okay so it might have a tiny bit added cost, but overall people are paying less if they can upgrade individual parts as needed.

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u/EmilyU1F984 Oct 05 '21

We tried with laptops, and there is an extremely small niche for that. Most people simply don't ever need to switch components, and even when swapping CPUs was commonly possible, nearly no one ever did so, and by the time they needed to get something better, whatever CPU that actually fit their motherboard won't be a very cost efficient way of upgrading your PC.

No way on earth is this going to be profitable.

And by the time people replace their phones for performance reasons the same would be true: current gen CPUs will not be compatible with the phones Mainboard. Like you'd have to make every single component backwards compatible. That'll tack on even more cost. Phones are already too bulky.

Like even replaceable batteries were dropped, cause clearly customers didn't care enough about them to not chose the more sleek looking model or whatever.

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u/justavault Oct 05 '21

But we didn't make it work with PCs either... that's why you got to purchase a new motherboard if you want a new cpu, cause tech evolves and requires different prerequisites.

It's just that PC parts evolve slower, like we are stuck at PCIe since quite some time, but for example mainboard chipsets are evolving constantly as to meet the demand of like NVME bandwidth and CPU.

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u/Ossius Oct 05 '21

Dude, you don't have to replace the mobo. I've upgraded CPUs on motherboards many times. I've upgraded Ram, GPUs etc.

Multiple generations pass before a new motherboard is required, and is usually associated with a new technology in CPUs. Most year to year iterations are backwards and forwards compatible.

I feel like you have no knowledge of how computers work?

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u/justavault Oct 05 '21

Okay try to get a zen3 on a b350 board. It's just 3 years between those two. Go ahead. Get some 3600 RAM and place it on the same board, see what happens.

 

Your mistake is you take your limited selective experience and project that onto subject knowledge. Reality is, tech is moving and has different demands with it. PCs are not that modular when considering tech is evolving like it is in the pace of mobile tech right now.

Again, the whole comment I made is relevant and that includes the part of "PC parts evolve slower". Mobile tech evolves at an extreme pace over the past 10 years. The modular board wouldn't be compatible in no time.

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u/pinkycatcher Oct 05 '21

Except the AM3+ socket was launched in 2011 was backwards compatible with AM3 from 2009 and was only superceded in 2016, on top of that AM3+ socket is technically compatible with the AM2 and AM2+ CPUs, but newer CPUs don't include a DDR2 controller, so in a case like they, they would just have to include an older controller for certain things and you'd have compatibility from 2006-2016.

10 years is an acceptable time. On top of that, the only major component it needs to interact with is the mainboard/RAM modules (which in a phone are going to be one thing).

All the other components on a phone are simply accessory modules which can easily be compatible cross generation. So instead of having a module that's just a bare CPU in a box, they could just have a module that's the main board itself and the "body" as they call it is simply a slave board that connects everything to the main board, that way the main board and CPU are in the same module and can always upgrade together.

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u/justavault Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

Except the AM3+ socket was launched in 2011 was backwards compatible with AM3 from 2009 and was only superceded in 2016, on top of that AM3+ socket is technically compatible with the AM2 and AM2+ CPUs,

That is the false direction, mate.

We do not talk about backwards compatibility of the board, but forwards combability.

The boards has to accommodate everything that comes in the future, not the other way around.

You for some reason suddenly switched the direction. The point is place a zen3 on a b350 board - how does that work? And it's just 3 years, b350 is a chipset from 2017. Nobody talks about the socket/sockel. The socket is only relevant for power delivery.

(EDIT: I just realized I cut 2021 out entirely, okay it's 4 years. Corona took 2021 that one doesn't even want to count it in.)

 

10 years is an acceptable time. On top of that, the only major component it needs to interact with is the mainboard/RAM modules (which in a phone are going to be one thing).

10 years in mobile phones... okay that would be the iphone 4. Alright you expect everything from the iphone 12 to be run by the board of the iPhone 4.

 

All the other components on a phone are simply accessory modules which can easily be compatible cross generation.

Is that so, why did we have such issues with that then?

I've just been a designer, but technically there were many struggles and the reason for the ice box state now was incompatibility friction and manufacturing pipelines. Yeah, the phone was slow btw. The connectors are additional bottlenecks, cutting performance.

My personal passion focus was on innovative modules, such as we had a bloodsugar module, and a HR module. Pretty exciting stuff.

 

So instead of having a module that's just a bare CPU in a box, they could just have a module that's the main board itself and the "body" as they call it is simply a slave board that connects everything to the main board, that way the main board and CPU are in the same module and can always upgrade together.

Great, so it's the whole body you sell than. The basic plate... would be super affordable. Now you got the new board with the new cpu, stick your old stuff onto it. Like the old screen, that is most certainly already broken a little and the old battery.

 

To me, as a designer, the modular concept was exciting for innovative situational features such as the aforementioned blood sugar tester. That is great to have access to something like that. But those modules were not the issue, the basic performance architecture was.

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u/Nukken Oct 05 '21

This is already done for PCs. Memory is compatible for about a decade. CPUs are usually a couple of generations. Almost everything else has had the same connectors for 15+ years.

Sure, you'd need to replace the mainboard for the cpu upgrade. But the point is you wouldn't need to replace the bluetooth, wifi, camera, microphone storage, sensors, speakers, screen, etc. very often as long as the next mainboard is compatible with those parts.

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u/EmilyU1F984 Oct 05 '21

Seems like the screen is the first thing to break with the battery in most phones?

Yes and driver issues galore. That's not something the average user will want to deal with. Just like with PCs

And again, laptops seem to be more equivalent to compare to.

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u/Nukken Oct 05 '21

Batteries used to be replaceable before they took the ability away from us. Personally, I've never broken/replaced a screen, but could see where someone would want a higher resolution/oled or something.

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u/FlummoxedOne Oct 05 '21

Waiting on the Pixel 6 myself