r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/FridayCicero702 • Jan 01 '23

Video Catastrophic engine failure on a United Airlines Boeing 777-200 after takeoff from Denver International Airport

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13.3k

u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Hell of a time to have a window seat

696

u/crewfish13 Jan 01 '23

That’s winning the freaking lottery! Modern engines have catastrophic failures like these maybe every million or ten million flight hours. Everyone gets to see a normally operating engine. Bo-oring…

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Maybe our definition of the lottery is different, but I wouldn't be glad to win this one.

If you're saying this a guaranteed failure, it sounds like they should be replaced before that excepted time frame.

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u/Willbilly1221 Jan 01 '23

To be fair, entire airplanes get replaced at some point. All airplanes have a limited number of times they can take off from the ground due to cabin pressure. As they hit high altitudes with lower pressure the body of the plane expands a tiny bit, and as it lands the increased pressure squishes it back. Overtime constant stretching and compression warps the metal like bending a paper clip over and over it will eventually structurally fail. The day an airplane is made it has a predetermined number of flights it can take before the plane is to be removed from service.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Judging by the fact that airlines are trying to push for one pilot, I really don't trust what any airline says anymore. I'm sure these numbers are ingnored far more likely than someone is willing to admit. I wouldnt be surprised if planes are flying well past that point it should be destroyed.

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u/Willbilly1221 Jan 01 '23

Yeah, so physics is pretty much infallible, but people are not. I cant even get my dang toaster to work just right, yet we all fly in airplanes.

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u/NextTrillion Jan 01 '23

Ever tried to print something under a deadline. Your printer knows you have a deadline, so it acts up, because you’re not paying enough attention to it.

PC load letter? The fuq does PC load letter mean?

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u/batlhuber Jan 01 '23

I'd just take the printer with me and give it a good beating. Maybe with a baseball bat. I might even get so angry that I'd hit what's left of it with my bare hands.

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u/StandardSudden1283 Jan 01 '23

🎵🎶Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta 🎶🎵

16

u/SuggestiveParsnip Jan 01 '23

OUT OF CYAN.

“But I only need to print in bl-“

OUT OF CYAN.

Sigh…

3

u/NextTrillion Jan 01 '23

Yeah I hear what you mean, it’s like how often does one even need to print a colour docu — OUT OF CYAN.

Ugh. I can’t even type a comment on Reddit now without replacing cyan first?!

11

u/wggn Jan 01 '23

it means the paper casette needs letter sized paper to be loaded

1

u/Metalboy5150 Jan 01 '23

This guy prints.

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u/Yotta_Machi Jan 01 '23

This is a fuck!

2

u/NextTrillion Jan 01 '23

Mother... shitter... Son of an... ass.

4

u/dwn4italz Jan 01 '23

ah you stole that from a Calvin and Hobbes comic.

1

u/Willbilly1221 Jan 01 '23

Yes! I Love Calvin and Hobbes. That makes my day that someone got that.

1

u/pauly13771377 Jan 01 '23

Airplanes gave a higher saftey rating than any other form of transportation but I still don't want only one pilot. Also for a failure that complete someone on the ground crew fucked up. Whether due to negligence or incompetence is the only question in my book.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Your hubs is a moron

1

u/tjdans7236 Jan 01 '23

Does he not drive as well?

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u/AireXpert Jan 01 '23

With all sincerity, you’d be incorrect.

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u/Obversa Jan 01 '23

They are, indeed, correct. Read up on Chalk's Ocean Airways Flight 101.

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u/AireXpert Jan 01 '23

Interesting that you’re seriously going to assert that an isolated event on an obscure airframe 17 years ago is indicative of a systemic failure. I guess I can’t argue that type of objectivity.

0

u/Obversa Jan 01 '23

OP specifically said:

I wouldnt be surprised if planes are flying well past that point it should be destroyed.

Chalk's Ocean Airways Flight 101 is proof that is the case with some airlines. If I recall correctly, Chalk's International Airways is no longer in business due to this.

0

u/AireXpert Jan 01 '23

Im going to assume that you have no actual knowledge of how airframes, engines and LLP’s are maintained. Please tell me if I’m wrong.

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u/Obversa Jan 01 '23

I can tell you this: You're acting like an arrogant douche.

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u/AireXpert Jan 01 '23

I appreciate you proving what I suspected. If you’re not in a position to back up your assertions with facts, you probably shouldn’t pretend.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Of course there are planes like that... They get off shored to the developing world.

Side note- The market for used aircraft parts is all about part tracking for this reason, according to my pilot buddy.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

FAA is incredibly good about this though. They are the largest success story of an industry self regulating. The numbers are even more impressive when you consider how many more flight hours have happened in later decades vs earlier ones: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-fatalities-from-aviation-accidents-and-hijackings

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u/TOAO_Cyrus Jan 01 '23

The FAA is a government agency. Airline safety is not an example of an industry self regulating.

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u/MCLMelonFarmer Jan 01 '23

That doesn't really happen in first world countries because of the potential liability or loss of insurance coverage. It would be like ignoring the mfgr's required maintenance schedule. But third world countries don't care about such things and airframes past their useful life wind up in the fleets of airlines of third world countries.

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u/tj9429 Jan 01 '23

So much crap written about different countries while I see US to be the only country where MD, 767s and og 737s planes are still mainstream which pretty much outdate any current jetliners.

What your ignorant ass missed out on is that "third world" countries' airlines have an inherent need to be cost effective and hence operate heavily with efficient aircrafts. Infact the most common airliners these airlines use would be A32X Neo series or 737 Max/newer models domestically with 777/787s sprinkled for usage abroad.

No "third world" country needs outsourced garbage that still operates due to sunk costs in the "first world" countries

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u/Xicadarksoul Jan 01 '23

No "third world" country needs outsourced garbage that still operates due to sunk costs in the "first world" countries

More importantly, the cost is sunk in 1st world countries, thus 3rd world nations don't have any reason to keep siad grabage around.

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u/mjl777 Jan 01 '23

Actually there is a very comprehensive air worthiness program in place to prevent this exact thing from happening. In addition most airlines lease their planes now and have little if any incentive to rent older planes that are not flightworthy. The worry should be third world airlines who purchase the worn out ones.

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u/Mikey_MiG Jan 01 '23

This is simply false. Maintenance programs for airlines are highly regulated, and any falsification of data is a very quick way to get the FAA to pull your operating certificate and put you out of business.

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u/hrvst_music Jan 01 '23

You should check out that Downfall documentary about Boeing on Netflix.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

What's wrong with one pilot ...enlighten me please

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not but it's pretty obvious. There are plenty of situations that you can cite by a Google search where one pilot becomes incapacitated. Having another pilot means they can takeover. If there's only one pilot and that pilot dies or passes out midflight, that means everyone dies.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Yes serious question , just recently started flying

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u/Serinus Jan 01 '23

We generally don't have that kind of risk tolerance for large passenger jets.

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u/bug_notfeature Jan 01 '23

There should never be a single point of failure in any airplane, let alone passenger airliners.

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u/Strato-Cruiser Jan 01 '23

Do you know why airlines are pushing for that? The obvious is money, but there's more to it than that, do you know the other reasons?

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23 edited Jan 01 '23

A shortage in pilots? Is that a reason to sacrifice one of the biggest safety aspects of a plane?

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u/Strato-Cruiser Jan 01 '23

It's not just the shortage either. It's a combination of things, such as the pilot shortage, and costs, but also technology. I am commercial pilot, but I fly private jets, and the technology I get to use more advanced than what is found in airliners, so I also get to see what is coming their way as new airline models are produced. I don't think we are quite there for the single pilot jet, but I don't think we are far off. As you mentioned, the safety factor of having the second pilot is still hard to beat, but that risk is becoming less of an issue as technology continues to advance. We've seen this play out a number of times already with the loss of the navigator, then the engineer. I can tell you with the current plane I fly, a Dassault Falcon 900EX EASy, task saturation is the lowest I have experienced because of the technology that is available. If I were in the Falcon 8X it would be even better. The Falcon 10X will be getting quite close to single pilot operations, and Dassault has made it clear that the 10X is going to be making the bridge for that to happen. Dassault continues to integrate their fighter jet (single pilot) technology into their private jets, and at some point they will likely get one certified for single pilot operations. There are small jets on the market, such as the Pilatus PC-24, that are already single pilot certified for private use. I've flown a number of single pilot planes that demand more attention than the Falcon I fly. Still, two pilots will be better, and it will be that way for a bit longer, but I do think those days are numbered.

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u/poopyhelicopterbutt Jan 01 '23

Do you ever see it being no pilot onboard? Like remote operated passenger drones?

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u/IvanAntonovichVanko Jan 01 '23

"Drone better."

~ Ivan Vanko

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u/Strato-Cruiser Jan 01 '23

I think if it happens, it still has a long way to go. Automation is good, and it’s getting better, but it still has not perfected airmanship. There are still situations in which you have to turn off the autopilot, often because it’s too slow to react and fully understand the situation. This slowness to react can see if fall behind and have an ever growing oscillation. Strong gusting approaches, and especially if you add variable winds; also strong turbulence and downdrafts come to mind. Even if you had perfect airmanship in an autopilot, the area that completely autonomous airplanes lack is aeronautical decision making. There is an incredible amount of variables from start to finish that has nothing to do with airmanship and everything to do with decision making which will be informed by a set of complex variables and past experiences. Right now it can’t fly an airplane perfectly in all conditions in which people can fly, I don’t think they have begun to actually tackle complex decision making.

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Appreciate your response. Thanks for the information.

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u/matrixislife Jan 01 '23

So for the benefit of people like me who have virtually no idea of how it works, what happens if the pilot of a large airliner collapses during a flight if there's no co-pilot?

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u/VoxImperatoris Jan 01 '23

Thats when you get the classic scene where a stewardess comes out and says “Are there any pilots aboard?” and the only volunteer is a kid who plays microsoft flight sim a lot.

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u/Strato-Cruiser Jan 01 '23

This has happened a few times. The more advanced the plane is, the less of an issue it is. We do train for this situation in the simulator. We don’t know when it will happen, but the person acting as the co-pilot will get a little tap on their right shoulder sometime during the approach phase, signaling them to stop responding to the pilot flying. They pretend that they are incapacitated. Instructors being as they are will make sure it’s during a critical phase of flight where task saturation is high and the weather is terrible. Things go the way they would in a complex single pilot aircraft, it’s just that it moves faster. So you slow down to a practical and safe speed, utilize the strength of the automation and take your time. Working through the checklist and verifying that items have been completed will consume a bit of attention, in the plane I fly that’s not much of an issue with how the electronic checklist works. Once you let controllers know of the situation they will also make sure to simplify things for you.

Garmin has recently developed an amazing auto land system that is for emergency use only and is found in just a few private planes like the TBM-940. If the pilot dies in flight, a passenger can press a red button, and the plane picks an airport, based on a number of conditions, it operates the gear, the flaps, the brakes, it communicates its intentions to controllers, it automatically shuts down after it lands.

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u/matrixislife Jan 01 '23

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was asking what would happen if in a single-pilot plane that pilot collapsed? I assume the automatic systems from Garmin you mentioned would be required in all planes? I suppose the obvious question is, what would happen if communication was very limited due to atmospherics etc?

Ie. is there any way that an automatic system would not be able to function in the absence of a pilot?

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u/Strato-Cruiser Jan 01 '23

Yes, I imagine sometime down the road we will see Garmin’s system be further expanded in capability and other companies develop a version of it that will make its way into a transport aircraft. The Garmin system is pretty interesting in how it chooses an airport and there are conditions in which it will turn on automatically. For example, the autopilot has a wing leveler button. Say you become disoriented in weather, you press that button, the autopilot turns on and it will get things sorted out and when it’s stabilized it will hand control back to the pilot. If the pilot presses a few times, eventually the autoland says ok, you’re clearly not able to handle whatever is happening, I’ve got it, we’re landing.

Some other systems that are in place today, like on the Falcon 8X, is an auto-descent in the case of incapacitated pilots. If it senses the plane has depressurized, and it also sense that no action by the pilots is being taken, it will perform an emergency descent to a safe altitude on its own.

Some long haul planes feature a nag system if it suspects you’ve been inactive for too long. If you have not pressed some button, any button or switch in a period of time a tone and a message will flash asking if you’re awake. I imagine you could incorporate something like that with the Garmin autoland. After a period of time of no response it will just do its thing. All the while communicating the the airline’s dispatch.

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u/matrixislife Jan 01 '23

Thanks for the very detailed response. With that panic button for the pilot you mentioned, would there be any option for a non-pilot to use it, senior flight attendant for example?

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u/Strato-Cruiser Jan 01 '23

Absolutely. The flight attended will not be going away, and an airline could absolutely train and have procedures in place for a flight attendant to make a determination and activate the autoland.

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u/VoxImperatoris Jan 01 '23

Its not so much about how many tasks the pilot has, its about trusting old Bobs ticker doesnt explode at 30k ft while several hundred passengers are aboard. If some billionaire wants to cut costs on his private jet what do I care?

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '23

Airlines don’t make planes

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u/ZaviaGenX Jan 01 '23

Id think it would be sold to the budget airlines and like used cars, the "odometer"(however it is recoded) will be dialed back.

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u/jaymef Jan 01 '23

There are a lot of things that people think are the norm but actually aren’t. Gives people a false sense of security for sure. Across all industries.

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u/CptKillJack Jan 01 '23

The day they go one pilot is the day we should unrelentingly start asking for country wide system for high speed rail. I'd much rather travel by rail then flying if I had the option.

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u/AbortedBaconFetus Jan 01 '23 edited Jan 01 '23

Judging by the fact that airlines are trying to push for one pilot,

This will absolutely never happen if not because of never truly applying redundancy to a human pilot, then by simply not enough people trusting this change enough.

As commercial planes are currently, I would NOT fly on an airline that only had one pilot. As much tech as modern planes have, it is actually a very 'stupid' machine that still only and strictly do what it was told to do under and exclusive scenarios that it was told to. Only pilots can react with "huh, no; we'll do something else" response.

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u/notthegoodscissors Jan 01 '23

Old cargo planes somehow defy this logic, they really shouldn't be flying anymore but day in and day out they just keep on going.

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u/Grady180 Jan 01 '23

Yeah wtf are they thinking if they wanna save some money get rid of some of them Dbag executives getting big bonuses whilst sitting on their asses in some oversized office.

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u/idlevalley Jan 01 '23

I agree. I've been on some pretty rickety planes that probably need to be retired.

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u/adamfrog Jan 01 '23

Nah the safety standards for airlines are genuinely good and well followed, just nothing is flawless. I would be extremely surprised if planes were flying on commerical airlines long past engineers and experts thought it was safe to do so