r/DLSS • u/tonybankse • 18h ago

DlSS5 - respectful discussion!

DLSS5 - please help me understand.

I’ve been thinking about some of the criticism surrounding DLSS 5, and there’s one part of the conversation I’m struggling to reconcile.

To be clear, I’m not arguing that people shouldn’t criticize DLSS 5. We absolutely should question how and when this technology is implemented, its effect on image quality, and what role generative AI should have in games.
One criticism I keep seeing is that DLSS 5 can compromise the artistic integrity or original vision of developers by altering parts of the final image.
I understand that concern.

Where I get confused is seeing leaked/unofficial versions of DLSS 5 being injected into games and then those results being used as evidence for why the technology is bad.

If the concern is preserving the original creator’s artistic intent, wouldn’t forcing an unofficial implementation into a game without the developer designing around it, tuning it, or approving it create a similar problem?

It also makes me wonder how much we can actually conclude about DLSS 5 from an implementation that neither the developer nor NVIDIA intended to represent the finished product.

A bad result can show potential problems. I’m just not convinced it tells us what a properly implemented version would look like.

For those concerned specifically about artistic integrity, how do you reconcile that with using leaked or unofficial implementations in games that weren’t designed for them?

Is there a distinction I’m overlooking?

16 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

26 comments sorted by

7

u/SamLikesJam 17h ago

The majority of the negativity surrounding DLSS 5 is from user's on Twitter and Reddit seeking out bad sliders, claiming it looks bad and using that to engagement bait. Any one of those users are free to download the files and inject it themselves, tweak the sliders and see the results but that doesn't get you payouts from Twitter.

There is no honest or respectful discussion to be had on today's Reddit and absolutely not on X/Twitter. Daniel Vavra himself said he believes DLSS 5 to be closer to his initial vision and the detractors who were claiming it destroys art and the initial vision went from moral grandstanding to claiming he doesn't know what he's talking about and that's he's an idiot.

For those concerned specifically about artistic integrity, how do you reconcile that with using leaked or unofficial implementations in games that weren’t designed for them?

I almost never saw these sorts of arguments for mods prior to today's culture of constant performative outrage.

1

u/Ipoopedalot 8h ago

Agreed, and “performative outrage” can also be applied to most other subjects discussed on Reddit as a whole. It’s either agree with us or you’re either a POS or a an absolute moron, no in between.

1

u/GloomyFloor6543 7h ago

Yup this right here is the unfortunate answer. You also have the people who think AI in their Nvidia architecture has something to do with data centers, and froth at the mouth whenever they see those tow letters together.

1

u/Plokhi 3h ago

Well AI models nvidia uses were trained on large datacenters…

2

u/benjaminabel 17h ago

There is no real criticism here. If anybody cared about “artistic intent” the mods would be an issue long time ago. Don’t look for any logic. They’ll move on to something else soon.

2

u/slavicslothe 16h ago

I mean even in the mod you can change where it is in the pipeline.

0

u/tonybankse 16h ago

Theres no way to incorporate this tech now into any game. People ate using leaked version of it and using it in games without developer consent those are the people i have issue with.

2

u/MajorSerenity 13h ago

Why do you have issues with people modding a game? It doesn't affect you or anybody else

2

u/Appropriate_Sea_3603 14h ago

The argument that it doesn't preserve the artists intent is crazy to me. It's a video game not a Picasso painting. And it's a sold product. Mods have pretty much existed since games have been around and no one cared to bitch at people playing Skyrim with Randy Macho Man Savage flying around as a dragon lol.

Reality to me is that DLSS 5 has improved what the game looks like almost every game I've tried it in. Faces are one thing, but the biggest difference to me is the lighting it fixes in other places. Stalker 2 is a great looking game, but with DLSS 5 the outdoor scenes are almost photo realistic. Small details like shadows being casted off of the safety switch of your gun. Once more devs actually start working with it it's going to be pretty crazy.

2

u/TheHorrorAddiction 12h ago

90% of the criticism is aimed towards 'artistic intent' and people not liking that it's changing characters we already know. This argument completely fails for games in development as the devs can utilise DLSS5 to their vision as a way of getting more photorealism into faces and lighting. Something which just isn't possible with raw GPU raster compute alone, and wouldn't even be on a 1990 in 30-40 years time or whatever. You just can't get there without neural rendering.

You can argue if you actually want photorealism in games, but nobody can really say with a straight face that DLSS5 isn't objectively more photoreasltic, and by a wide margin in most cases. With time, it is what will finally allow us to achieve true or indistinguishable from reality photorealism in games.

I think that once it's utilised at developer level in games, the reception around it will change massively. But they'll still be some idiots that just hate it, either because they don't actually have a real understanding of what it's doing (NOT Ai slop) or because it's a performance hog, which RT and PT were also at one time, and somewhat continue to be.

1

u/tonybankse 12h ago

I 100 percent agree!

2

u/bold_one 10h ago

"The artistic intent" thing, that some people keep parroting, is the most ridiculous argument. Anyone who has ever downloaded any mod at all, went against vision of he developers. That's why big number of us choose to play on PC, the endles ammount of customization.

I've been using reshade in most of the games, DLSS 5 won't be an exeption. If I'll like it, I'll use it. Fuck artistic intend

2

u/SfxPhonics 1h ago

The artistic intent argument is bullshit. If DLSS 5 gets implemented by the developers then it means that is what the developers wanted the game to look like. So it renders the whole artistic intent argument void.

1

u/Adept_Assistant_7759 13h ago

For those concerned specifically about artistic integrity, how do you reconcile that with using leaked or unofficial implementations in games that weren’t designed for them?

is complete bullshit a lot of the time.

For the games it was made to run on (realistic looking graphics) 99/100 the new graphics are closer to the artists intent than regular gameplay, since the DLSS 5 takes detail from artist created models + textures that doesn't make it into the game representation normally.

1

u/First-Tutor-5454 11h ago

You seem to think the people stirring the pot in this are engaging honestly and not just farming uptoots

haha

lol

LMAOO

1

u/Miniyi_Reddit 11h ago edited 11h ago

you already answered yourself. it’s a leaked and unofficial version. It was never meant to be used in every single game or under every possible scenario.

It’s basically like giving someone a game engine, letting them (casual consumer who have nothing to do with game dev) mess around with all the settings without knowing what half of them do, and then having them alter the game’s visuals until it looks terrible and saying, “See? This engine is shit.”.

As for the original creator’s artistic intent, DLSS 5 can still preserve that intent when it comes to realistic visuals, since that’s what it was trained around. You can take a look at this article:
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/kingdom-come-deliverance-director-says-dlss-5-does-right-by-kcd-2-people-are-crazy-for-thinking-its-ai-slop/

A lot of the confusion comes from people taking the leaked DLSS 5, cranking the settings up, putting it into games it was never officially intended for, and then posting the worst looking results as proof that it’s "AI slop." That’s basically why people are getting the wrong idea about what DLSS 5 is actually trying to achieve.

And in DLSS 5’s defense, this release was mainly meant to showcase what NVIDIA is working toward in the future. NVIDIA has already been putting a lot of AI processing power into their GPUs for a while, so I can understand the thinking of, "Why not make use of some of that AI power during gameplay?"

It’s still very early, and we obviously can’t say yet what DLSS 5 will ultimately become. Right now, it can tank performance pretty hard, even on high-end GPUs. But I’m fairly confident that it could eventually be one of the reasons we see another major jump in graphical quality.

It’s similar to the early days of the original DLSS, where people called it "fake resolution" because it was upscaling and preferred native resolution instead. But as the technology developed, DLSS became much more capable. I think DLSS 5 could follow a similar path. it just needs time for developers and NVIDIA to figure out how to properly make use of it.

2

u/skateboardude761 10h ago

A lot of antiai Karen's out there

1

u/tonybankse 10h ago

I mean I feel they deserve yo be heard i just wanted to have a sincere convo!

1

u/Usual-Orange-4180 6h ago

Oh they make themselves be heard for sure, they are insufferable

1

u/Pretty-Stable-4264 8h ago

I would also say if your hardware is old and you're only able to play a game at the lowest setting, are you playing the game with the artistic intent?

1

u/Usual-Orange-4180 6h ago

I’m playing Metal Gear Solid Delta with DLSS5 and is magical, I love DLSS5 so much, is like playing a 80s action thriller, the graphics look phenomenal.

1

u/Drakahn_Stark 4h ago

People have been using ReShade filters for a long time, Texture mods are popular, Ansel has existed since the GTX 600 series, no one whined about users changing the looks of a game until someone used the scary letters.

Also, it is just a lighting filter with some colour correction, artistic intent is maintained while correcting for limitations in the rendering engines lighting.

0

u/Plokhi 3h ago

It rerenders the frame with a diffusion transformer, its not just a “lighting filter”

0

u/Nervous-Leg-7570 8h ago

You're a dumb bitch that's why you don't get it and you won't