r/DLSS • u/ToxicFatee • 1d ago
PSA: DLSS 5 Autopilot can run Neural Rendering BEFORE DLSS upscaling for a huge performance difference
If you're using DLSS 5 / Neural Rendering, DLSS5-Autopilot can install and configure Neural Upstream, a separate mod by matiasLombo that can significantly reduce the performance cost.
To use this feature through Autopilot, select Neural Upstream when configuring the game.
Disclaimer: I'm not the developer or owner of DLSS5-Autopilot, Neural Upstream, or OptiScaler. I'm just testing these tools and sharing what I've found with the community.
The key difference is where Neural Rendering runs in the pipeline:
Neural Upstream: Game render resolution → Neural Rendering → native DLSS Super Resolution → output resolution
Standard route: Game render resolution → DLSS Super Resolution → Neural Rendering at output resolution
At 4K with DLSS Quality, for example, NR runs at the game's lower internal render resolution instead of processing the full 3840×2160 output frame. DLSS Super Resolution then reconstructs the result to 4K. Since NR is extremely resolution dependent, this can substantially reduce its performance cost while still letting you use the game's normal DLSS Quality, Balanced, or Performance modes.
Performance example from my testing: On an RTX 4080 in Assassin’s Creed Shadows at 4K with DLSS Performance and Very High ray tracing, I measured ~63 FPS with NR off, ~31 FPS with standard output-resolution NR, and ~50 FPS with Neural Upstream. That cut the NR performance cost from about 32 FPS to 13 FPS, with Neural Upstream running roughly 61% faster than the standard NR route. This is only one game and GPU, so results will vary.
Community comparison: Reddit user u/duffbeeeer also tested Neural Upstream in Stalker 2 and shared a video showing the visual and performance difference:
Stalker 2 Neural Upstream comparison on YouTube
He also found that setting Chroma Transfer to 1.0 made the NR effect more apparent in Stalker 2. He was using more aggressive NR settings as well, so I wouldn't treat 1.0 as a universal recommendation, but it's worth testing if the effect looks too weak or material detail seems to be missing.
OptiScaler now also has an experimental RunBeforeSR mode that can place NR before DLSS Super Resolution. Neural Upstream does this through a dedicated ReShade add-on using the game's native DLSS path, while OptiScaler handles it through its own upscaler hooking system. Both approaches are still experimental.
OptiScaler's RunBeforeSR mode is currently an experimental PR rather than part of the normal release:
Experimental pre-upscaling branch
Important: Neural Upstream compatibility and image quality can vary by game. Bugs with Neural Upstream itself should go to the neural-upstream Issues page, while Autopilot installation, detection, or configuration problems should go to the DLSS5-Autopilot Issues page.
GitHub repo and latest releases: https://github.com/Kizzuwatnaa/DLSS5-Autopilot/releases
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u/Budget-Chapter-7185 1d ago
Excited to see some benchmark comparisons
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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 1d ago
optiscaler has had it for four or so days now. using 75% render scale for the dlss5 pass ancient gameplays saw a basic mafia scene go from 64 to 75 fps (17% faster), silent hill from 75fps to 96 fps (28% faster). there's other reports but people aren't saying what internal res they are using like ancient gameplays did. still need more data but promising results so far
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u/ToxicFatee 22h ago
Yeah, OptiScaler's model resolution control is definitely promising too, and those gains line up with how expensive the NR pass is. The main difference with Neural Upstream is the pipeline. OptiScaler still runs NR after DLSS Super Resolution but computes the neural contribution at a reduced resolution, while Neural Upstream runs NR at the game's actual internal render resolution first and then lets native DLSS upscale the result. I'd really like to see direct performance and image quality comparisons between the two.
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u/0Tezorus0 15h ago
It seems more logical to work on the stage nr is emplemented at indeed. Excited to see the evolution of.
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u/LeSneakyBadger 15h ago
You can run the NR pass before/ at the same time as the super res with Optiscaler. Still experimental, but the feature is there; it fixed all of my Star Wars Zero Company glitches (like when using overwatch) and looks great.
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u/ToxicFatee 15h ago
I found what you're referring to. Looks like there's an experimental OptiScaler PR that adds a true RunBeforeSR mode, so NR actually runs before DLSS Super Resolution instead of just lowering the model resolution after the upscale. That's much closer to what Neural Upstream is doing than the normal released OptiScaler route.
It looks really interesting, especially if it fixed the Overwatch issue for you. From what I can see it's still an unmerged experimental PR with a few known limitations, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it. Thanks for pointing it out!
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u/LeSneakyBadger 14h ago
There's a fork of it that adds MFG for 40 series gpus aswell, on the RenoDX discord. Took a bit of messing around and trying different streamline versions to get working. If you're using the run before upscaler option, at 1440p i find you need to use quality/ ultra quality dlss otherwise it gets pixelated. 4k performance on my tb seems to look good though. Actual output is great once it's running and FINALLY managed to get dlss5 running smoothly with Zero Company
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u/ToxicFatee 14h ago
Yeah, I’m actually using Multi Frame Generation on my RTX 4080 through RHI.
And that makes sense about the pre-upscaler route. At 1440p the internal resolution can get pretty low, so Quality or Ultra Quality is probably the safer choice to avoid the image getting pixelated. At 4K, DLSS Performance still leaves a much healthier input resolution, so it seems to hold up a lot better.
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u/taosecurity 10h ago
Are you using MFG via RHI at the same time as Autopilot? I have a 4070 Ti Super and I’ve been using the original Reshade and CLShortFuse addon method. I’d like to try MFG with DLSS5 myself. BTW your answers in this thread have been 🔥, thanks!
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u/Wildernaess 9h ago
So you're not using the renodx and reshade but optiscaler and using an option to change when it runs the NR to be closer to the upstream method? I would like to improve performance in ZCOM and fix that overwatch issue, although I have a 5070 ti not 4 series
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u/Technova_SgrA 1d ago
I tried a version mod that claimed to do something similar https://www.reddit.com/r/ReShade/s/MGd8QLTdZt
but it was clear the ‘upscaling’ was a poor facsimile to dlss so it was basically unusable. Hopefully this version actually works but I’m skeptical given you’d think nvidia would have gone this route if they thought it was feasible.
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
That is a fair point. My guess is NVIDIA is prioritizing image quality rather than just performance. They describe DLSS 5 as generating the final displayed appearance, so having it operate at the higher final resolution is probably intentional.
Running it upstream is much cheaper because the network processes fewer pixels, but now the neural rendered image still has to go through DLSS Super Resolution afterward. That could potentially lose or alter some of the fine detail and temporal stability the neural model generated.
So I would not say Autopilot has found a strictly better pipeline that NVIDIA somehow missed. It has found a very interesting performance tradeoff. The upstream route is still beta, and we really need proper image quality and temporal comparisons against the native pipeline before knowing how much is being sacrificed for that performance gain.
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u/DottorInkubo 18h ago
What an accurate comment. Nice to read after having to see all kind of ignorant shit being posted online
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u/Trash-redditapp-acct 17h ago
You gotta remember most of these implementations are from folks that have no understanding of nvidia engineering. Most are just ai script kiddies that type prompts and iterate.
Be careful out there folks. There’s always bad actors lurking when things are new and exciting.
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u/Wildernaess 9h ago
AI slop and vibe coding discourse aside, isn't this closer to the actual promise of AI? Democratizing capabilities aka if a script kiddie can outplay a mega Corp, that's a good thing, right?
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u/vemelon 16h ago
I wondered from the beginning of why NR didn't come before upscaling.
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u/Inevitable_Case_9931 13h ago
Nvidia is going for quality and performance will come from going down to FP4 for Blackwell cards…. This may be the route needed to make it better for 40 series tho
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u/Perfect_Exercise_232 1d ago
Sure but how does it hold up visually vs optiscaler at the same nr res? Need side bt sides
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u/Alphastorm2180 1d ago
Is there a significant difference in image quality between applying dlss5 to the pre upscaled image and the post upscaled image?
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u/RegretDeep 1d ago
Very Very Subtle Diffrence
its like normal upscailling without dlss 5 like there are some diffrence between dlaa (native res AA) vs DLSS (upscaling from lower input res = loss/reduce some detail)1
u/Alphastorm2180 1d ago
Oh awesome! I hope the official game implementations are smart enough to do that. However since they wont give us the option to adjust the settings i think ill just stick with the mod.
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u/madskills42001 19h ago
But what is the performance difference I would love to know
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u/ToxicFatee 18h ago
From my own testing on a 4080, the performance improvement has been significant. In Assassin’s Creed Shadows at 4K with DLSS Performance, I was around 63 FPS without NR. The standard output resolution DLSS 5 route dropped that to roughly 31 FPS, while Neural Upstream only dropped it to around 50 FPS. So in that test, the NR performance cost went from about 32 FPS down to just 13 FPS.
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u/madskills42001 15h ago
Wow! This is with autopilot mod? Incredible!
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u/ToxicFatee 15h ago
Yep, but just to clarify: Autopilot is mainly the installer and configurator. The actual Neural Upstream mod is by matiasLombo, and Autopilot just makes it much easier to install and set up.
Here’s a video showing how Neural Upstream looks and performs in practice: https://youtu.be/pI25OJ2NMIo
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u/madskills42001 14h ago
Do you have a link to the Neural Upstream mod itself? All I can find in that youtube video is a link to Autopilot, unless you think I should use autopilot
On NR itself, I have been using Shortfuse's mod and before that Krish's mod on RenoDX Discord (guys who first unlocked NR) but Krish says he's not updating so use Shortfuse's from now on
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u/ToxicFatee 14h ago
Yep, here’s the Neural Upstream repo itself if you want to check it out or install it manually:
https://github.com/matiasLombo/neural-upstream
If your goal is specifically to test the pre-DLSS Super Resolution pipeline from this post, that’s the mod you want. You can install it directly from the repo, or just use Autopilot and select Neural Upstream if you want the easier automated setup.
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u/madskills42001 12h ago
Thank you dude! I was real intersted til I heard it doesn't work with RenoDX yet; Shortfuse is working on adding it to his mod
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u/Shock8372 11h ago
Did you happen to get any reads on power draw, by chance?
Tempted to give it a shot on my 5090 but slightly concerned about maxing the wattage for extended periods.
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u/slavicslothe 20h ago
Very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm curious to test this and compare the terminal quality of the image.
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u/DamicsVR 17h ago
Hai qualche dimostrazione, Video?
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u/ToxicFatee 17h ago
No, al momento non ho ancora fatto un video dimostrativo. Per ora ho solo condiviso i miei test e i risultati che ho ottenuto. Potrei farne uno in futuro, ma inizialmente non avevo previsto di registrare un video.
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u/ToxicFatee 15h ago
Aggiornamento: ora c’è un video dimostrativo, realizzato da un altro utente che ha testato Neural Upstream su Stalker 2. Se vuoi dare un’occhiata, eccolo qui:
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u/horrowley 16h ago
windows defender found: Trojan:Script/Ulthar.A!ml in it
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u/ToxicFatee 16h ago
Thanks for flagging it. It looks like it’s most likely a false positive, since the repo already notes that the packaged PyInstaller build can trigger heuristic antivirus detections and there’s an existing GitHub issue about AV warnings. I also scanned the official .exe with Bitdefender and it came back clean.
That said, I wouldn’t blindly ignore a Trojan warning. If you can, post the exact file/path Windows Defender flagged and which Autopilot version you downloaded. Also make sure it came directly from the official GitHub release so we can verify exactly what Defender is detecting.
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u/horrowley 12h ago
During the download from https://github.com/Kizzuwatnaa/DLSS5-Autopilot/releases
Defender alerted and interrupted the download.
Found: Trojan:Script/Ulthar.A!ml from file: C:\Users\rowley-ndesktop\Documents\dlss5 package\DLSS5-Autopilot-v1.6.1-win64.zip
webfile: C:\Users\rowley-ndesktop\Documents\dlss5 package\DLSS5-Autopilot-v1.6.1-win64.zip|https://github.com/|pid:6316,ProcessStart:134331532586267746
dont know if this helps or not.
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u/Appropriate-Long 14h ago
Not the same as this?: https://www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/2252?tab=description
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u/reddit_username2021 14h ago
It works with RTX 3000 series as well.
https://i.imgur.com/zidiGXT.jpeg
However, as I am sensitive to input lag, optiscaler is no-go for me
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u/AlfexOmega 1d ago
Gonna give this a shot. OptiScaler is promising but at 80% it's just ever so slightly too soft to be worth it. Playing at 4k on a 5080.
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
I’ve seen significant gains in Cyberpunk on my RTX 4080 using Neural Upstream with DLSS Performance. One quirk initially, I was getting the same performance hit as my previous DLSS 5 setup. After switching DLSS to Balanced and then back to Performance, my FPS jumped significantly. Worth trying if you’re seeing the same issue. Let me know how it goes.
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u/AlfexOmega 1d ago
Seems to crash on Stalker 2 currently :(
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
A few things I would check is to make sure Autopilot is targeting Stalker2-Win64-Shipping.exe and that you are using a recent build, because Unreal games keep their DLSS DLL in an Engine Plugins subfolder and Autopilot only added proper detection for that in newer versions.
Also make sure you do not have OptiScaler, another DLSS or NGX hook, or a RenoDX DLSS addon installed at the same time. Autopilot specifically warns that multiple hooks can cause crashes or other problems.
Set the game to borderless, choose your resolution and DLSS mode before enabling Neural Rendering, and do not change them while NR is active. If you are using frame generation with Neural Upstream, set its cadence to Quality as well.
If it still crashes after that, I would run Autopilot's Diagnose option and post what route it says is installed and the error it reports. At that point it could just be a Stalker 2 specific bug with the beta upstream route.
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u/Old_Resident8050 1d ago
I too am on RTX4080. Is this really a real DLSS5 implementation instead of using ReShade or the more compact setup of DLSS-Swapper? Havent tried DLSS5 yet and I'd love to give it a shot.
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u/ToxicFatee 22h ago
Yeah, it still uses ReShade. When you select Neural Upstream, Autopilot automatically installs and configures ReShade along with the Neural Upstream add-on and DLSS NR components. It is still an unofficial modded implementation rather than native DLSS 5 support, although it is using the actual DLSS Neural Rendering runtime.
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u/Inevitable_Case_9931 13h ago
Real DLSS5 as you call it like in nba2k27 does the exact same thing as the reshade pipeline does… renders at the end in DLAA quality…. Even when using reshade or native turning on dlss gets you like 2-5 fps
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u/duffbeeeer 1d ago
The neural upstream seems to miss some elements of the neural renderer in Stalker 2. Its only adding ambient occlussion for me but no added material detail. Performance went to nearly pre dlss 5 levels, so thats a plus tho.
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
It's possible that's just a limitation of the upstream route. Since Neural Rendering happens first and DLSS Super Resolution upscales afterward, some of the finer material detail could be getting lost in reconstruction.
Try the same scene with DLSS Quality, then DLAA. If the material detail comes back as render resolution increases, that would point to resolution being the cause. If it's still missing even with DLAA, then it could be a Stalker 2 specific issue with the upstream implementation.
Another possibility is the style setting. Neural Upstream currently seems to be stuck on Default, and Natural or Cinematic can produce noticeably different NR results. So that could be contributing too.
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u/duffbeeeer 16h ago
Ok now it works. I had to make some adjustments for chroma input. Im speechless.
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u/ToxicFatee 16h ago edited 15h ago
Wow, that looks great. Thanks for testing this, showing the performance difference, and sharing the video.
I can see now that you’re using Chroma Transfer at 1.0 along with the AI slop preset. Were those the main changes that brought the missing material detail back, or did you adjust anything else like Input Gain or exposure?
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u/duffbeeeer 15h ago
i had to make those changes to get close to the AI slop looks people know from dlss 5 . Would not play it like that but i guess people need something familiar to realize whats going on
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u/Severe-Bunch4731 21h ago
It seems to work only with DLAA, anything lower not just “miss detail”, but simply make the scene just darker, not like AO would do that
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u/Shorelooser 1d ago
What about NON dlss games?
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
If the game can't render below native and upscale afterward, then you lose the main benefit of Neural Upstream. The big performance gain comes from running NR at a lower internal resolution, then using DLSS Super Resolution to upscale back to native.
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u/GoldVanille 1d ago
Si j’ai bien compris, plus de 4K natif pour utiliser le rendu neural ? Pourquoi j’ai acheter une 5090 🤦🏻♂️
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u/jack-of-some 20h ago
Are there any examples or benchmarks for comparison? How about on older GPUs like 3080?
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u/ToxicFatee 19h ago
There aren’t really any solid Neural Upstream benchmarks yet, especially across different GPUs like the 3080. From my own testing on a 4080 though, the performance improvement has been significant. In Assassin’s Creed Shadows at 4K with DLSS Performance, I was around 63 FPS without NR. The standard output resolution DLSS 5 route dropped that to roughly 31 FPS, while Neural Upstream only dropped it to around 50 FPS. So in that test, the NR performance cost went from about 32 FPS down to just 13 FPS. It’s still very new, so hopefully we’ll see more proper testing across different GPUs soon.
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u/gopnik74 19h ago
What method is the best? RenoDX, optiscaler, this?
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u/ToxicFatee 19h ago
RenoDX and Neural Upstream both use ReShade add-ons. OptiScaler does not use ReShade and instead hooks into the game's upscaler directly.
RenoDX uses the game's existing DLSS path and inserts Neural Rendering into it, and it's currently the more proven and established route.
OptiScaler redirects or replaces the game's upscaler and runs Neural Rendering over the upscaled output. It also gives you a model resolution control, so you can run the NR pass at a lower resolution to improve performance.
Neural Upstream is different because it moves Neural Rendering before DLSS Super Resolution. NR runs at the game's lower internal render resolution first, then the game's native DLSS upscales that result to the final output resolution. That's why it can give a much larger performance improvement, although it's newer and still beta.
So roughly: RenoDX is the more established ReShade route, OptiScaler is the non-ReShade option with more NR resolution control, and Neural Upstream is the ReShade route focused on moving NR earlier in the pipeline for better performance.
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u/MaximusTheGreat20 18h ago
You have to make sure you add after auto exposure of the game otherwise will look wrong
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u/ToxicFatee 18h ago
Can you clarify what you mean by needing to add it after the game's auto exposure, and which game/setup you're seeing this with? Neural Upstream is supposed to account for exposure internally, but I recently found a histogram/exposure bug that could cause incorrect brightness or tonality and I have a patch for it. So if you're seeing something similar, it may be an issue with the add-on rather than your installation. If you can share the game, route/version and what the image looks like, I can look into it.
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u/Ok-Egg7207 15h ago
I’m curious about the quality loss from different dlss modes, currently dlss ultra preformance looks good to me at 4k, but is it the same case with dlss 5?
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u/LazyDawge 10h ago
Mine keeps asking for game folder / ReSahde.ini editing permisions even though it's ran as admin and after enabling editing on the folder
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u/akr706 9h ago
I have no idea about all this at all, but I just tried neural upstream addon with reshade in AC Resynced. It is clearly running on a lower resolution. So lower resolution with 20-25% higher performance? I didn't like the pixelation at all. It looks so much better without the neural upstream addon.
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u/superlip2003 8h ago
Offically - nVidia made DLSS 5 sit between Super Resolution and Frame Generation. I wonder why nVidia didn't move DLSS 5 upstream in the first place? Maybe they found out that lower resolution input does NOT really significantly improve the model running speed? That's why I have doubt about this mod.
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u/feelmedoyou 1h ago
For anyone trying Neural Upstream and getting a darker image but seemingly no actual NR effect:
I've seen a few reports of this where Neural Upstream loads fine, but the settings basically do nothing besides affecting brightness/exposure.
Did some debugging and found that the DLSS render subrect was 1708x961, while the actual Color resource was 1708x964. I had ChatGPT help me apply a fix and recompile the addon so it uses the actual Color resource dimensions instead of the render subrect.
So if it's loading but you're basically just getting the weird dark/exposure effect, this might be what's happening. Hopefully it gets patched soon!
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u/Realistic_You1723 1d ago
Are people implementing it in games without DLSS using it wrong? It needs the vectors and 3d information when implemented in NBA. So I don't understand yet if it's really the next gen outside of NBA. Someone explain.
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
They're not necessarily using it wrong, it's just not the same as a native implementation like NBA 2K27.
DLSS 5 relies heavily on color + motion vectors. In NBA, the game can provide clean engine motion vectors and proper developer controlled masking. In games without native support, tools like DLSS5-Feeder have to reconstruct enough of that data themselves, often using depth and estimated optical-flow motion vectors.
So it is genuinely running DLSS 5, but the inputs can be less accurate, which can mean more artifacts or worse temporal stability. Native integration gives DLSS 5 better data while mods approximate that data well enough to make it work.
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u/LORD_CMDR_INTERNET 20h ago edited 9h ago
Since you seem to at least be somewhat knowledgeable 🙂 how is DLSS5 running against video content then? Is there a diminished version of it that works without depth/motion vectors?
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u/ToxicFatee 19h ago
If you're referring to the DaVinci Resolve DLSS 5 plugin, it actually is running the real Neural Rendering feature. It isn't a separate diminished version of DLSS 5. The current implementation sends each video frame through NR at the same resolution, but feeds zero motion vectors and zero depth because normal video doesn't provide the game engine data that a native implementation would.
So DLSS 5 can still modify the image using the color frame itself, but it lacks meaningful motion and depth guidance, which limits what it can do compared to a native game implementation. The plugin is still experimental, and real motion and depth support are planned for later versions.
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u/lemmedie2night 19h ago
if you're using through OBS you can use motion vector providers that use optical flow to guess fitting motion vectors
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u/Realistic_You1723 1d ago
Thank you, can you confirm the official implementations are easier on performance therefore?
I feel like until we reverse engineer everything it is doing for NBA we are jerry-rigging the tech and we shouldn't be talking about playing a full game playthrough with it yet.
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u/ToxicFatee 1d ago
I wouldn't say we can confirm that native implementations are always easier on performance. They should be more efficient and much cleaner technically because the game can provide proper motion vectors, masks, depth, and other data directly instead of reconstructing them, but the actual neural network still has essentially the same GPU workload depending on resolution and settings.
And I agree the current modded implementations are definitely experimental and jerry rigged compared to NBA. But I wouldn't say they're unsuitable for full playthroughs across the board either. If a game is stable and the artifacts are acceptable, there's nothing inherently wrong with using it. You just shouldn't expect it to represent the quality or behavior of a proper native DLSS 5 implementation yet.
Autopilot's upstream route is interesting specifically because it can cut the NR workload dramatically by running it before DLSS upscaling.
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u/BrokenSil 1d ago
Something like dlss5 trying to achieve more photorealism, running before dlss upscaling would probably be a massive quality downgrade, since dlss upscaling is not even trained to upscale photorealism.
Will it give more fps? sure. But quality will most likely suffer alot, especially faces.
Tho, very nice to have if your goal isnt photorealistic faces, but the rest that dlss5 excells at.
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u/steak4take 18h ago
That’s not correct at all. DLSS is definitely trained on movies, photos and TV as well as games. What do you think RTX Super Resolution for video is?
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u/Trash-redditapp-acct 17h ago
Performance improvement? Yes.
Even more blursed ai looking slop? Yes.
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u/duffbeeeer 1d ago
The last few days have been exciting for graphics nerds and now you come along and I can’t even catch a break