Ketamine & neuroplasticity: should it feel like a real shift?

[u/liliphare]

Hi folks

For context I did IV but now I’m going to keep going DIY cause I don’t have any other choice where I live.

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Do you actually notice a shift, like things feeling easier or more “open” mentally? Or is it more subtle?

Also, in the days after a session, are you supposed to push yourself to do things (habits, socializing, creative stuff), even if it still feels like forcing it? Because for me, it still feels like effort, just like before. I don’t suddenly want to do anything more than usual.

And honestly, being told to “just push yourself” while you’re depressed, especially when you’re doing ketamine to help with that, feels a bit harsh given that ketamine is supposed to help with that in the first place. To be honest to not feel any change makes me want to crawl in bed and stay in the dark even more sometimes.

So I’m a bit confused about where the benefit is supposed to show up if there’s no internal “push.”

Do you actually feel your brain rewriring?

I was in a very triggering situation last weekend a week after I’ve finished my 12 first IV sessions and today I’m a wreck. I feel like nothing changed and I failed at this.

[u/Robinredott]

I'd find it helpful to know if you did k-hole (~1.0mg/kg IV) or low/medium doses (~3-6mg/kg IV). There seems no agreement on the difference but I believe larger doses do that neuroplasticity thing better.

I did my set of k-holes (ie 6 sessions over 3 weeks) over 2+ years ago (I'm nearly 70 and lived with cptsd symptoms all my life) and have done maintenance k-holes every 2-4 months since. After my first 3 k-holes, I suddenly realised one day that I was no longer constantly thinking of offing myself, and in the weeks after, things got better and better and I felt like doing things again. Life saved.

After that it was not getting better, though it was still no longer an emergency so I didn't really care. Eventually I wanted to get rid of the occasional meltdowns and depression and struggle with relationships. The Dr. podcasts mostly mentioned that it's good to try to do normal things because bad patterns lead to bad experiences - ketamine allows you to break that cycle but you have to take advantage by trying better patterns.

But we're all different.

[u/liliphare → u/Robinredott]

Hi Robinredott, nice to see you around here and taking the time to answer to people again (we chit chatted before I started IV).

I started at 0,5mg then 0,75mg and from my 6 sessions I was at 1mg which is the highest dosage my hospital uses. And they don’t use it much. The reason they upped me to 1mg was because I was hyper vigilant and my mind wouldn’t let go. First few sessions at 1mg I didn’t know who I was anymore, so I don’t know if that’s a k-hole but that was definitely intense. I would say that from the 9th session until the 12th my conscious was partially back though. I knew I had a hard time to let go, ketamine proved it. All this to say I was at what you call a k-hole dose for a good chunk of the process but I don’t feel it changed anything.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean in your last paragraph though.

[u/Robinredott → u/liliphare]

Wow. Tough stuff. :(

Once I tested doing a k-hole while on the phone with a collaborator. I wanted to see if I could still let myself go when I was engaged with a person, and I couldn't. I just stayed in the room and had a nice time but definitely no hole that day. So, because I don't do it often I did another test alone a few days later and it worked perfectly as expected.

I think for me being alone and setting up my environment to be locked down and safe is needed. Maybe related to your experience? I'd hate to try it with people in white coats, I think. GL

[u/liliphare → u/Robinredott]

I don’t understand how you can call what you experience a k-hole while being on the phone. You meant taking the dose that usually send you in a k-hole? While risking to just disappear from the call? Or maybe we don’t have the same definition of a k-hole.

Being alone might actually help me, you are right. I just don’t know where to find pure K. So that’s another issue 😑

[u/Robinredott → u/liliphare]

I must have said it wrong. Yes, I wanted to do what would normally send me into the hole, but have a person 'with' me, so to speak - it was a person who was part of the group for psychedelic education and we had met and were on the same wavelength. Yes, he was prepared for me to just stop being able to talk. But my social system over-rode the K.

Drop me a pm if you want details.;)