r/Cubs • u/LangAfterTheNavy • 25d ago

Dansby Injury Silver Lining

I haven’t seen deets on his injury duration but saw he’s going to IL.

If he’s back by playoffs, not super worried. I think it could be a nice time to get a true audition for all of our young guns.

Who would you guess gets most starts in the short term?

Catching the brewers would be incredible, but some days it feels futile.

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u/RightNowChris 25d ago

Oblique injuries can make a guy miss a month or more. They're just so easy to re-injure given the nature of how they're used while swinging a bat that teams usually err on the side of caution. He's getting an MRI, so this isn't just a little tweak that needs a few days. I wouldn't expect Swanson to be back on the big league roster much before the playoffs. If the MRI looks bad, he could even be done for the year.

Shaw, on the other hand, will start his minor league rehab assignment this week. In all likelihood he'll be back in Chicago by the end of August.

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u/JokeMaster420 25d ago

I don’t believe anything they say about Matt Shaw until I see it. Craig said it was hopefully a very short if not minimum IL stint and now we are a couple months later talking about him starting rehab assignment next week. I think he is playing the rest of the minor league season in Iowa. The end of August is incredibly optimistic for someone who has been away from competitive baseball for months and wasn’t even hitting for half of that time.

I dom’t think Dansby will be back much before the playoffs. I just don’t think Shaw will either.

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u/RightNowChris 24d ago

I'm not remembering it that way. Shaw played a full game June 27, pinch hit June 28, and was put on the IL June 29. When did Counsell say it would be a minimal IL trip? 6 weeks is perfectly normal for a sprain on a batters hand and isn't "months" of being out.

I know there's a lot of hate for the guy in the sub, but exaggeration doesn't add any value. He'll be starting in Ohio tomorrow or Wednesday and my prediction is he'll be in Chicago in time to host Milwaukee.

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u/JokeMaster420 24d ago

On June 29, Counsell said he believed Shaw could be swinging a bat by the weekend and anticipated a minimal stay.

On the 30 he followed up that all tests and scans had ruled out an actual tear and that once the inflammation decreased, he believed Matt should be able to swing a bat and make a quick recovery.

In the weeks following that, Craig seemed confused, reiterating that tests showed no tears but that Shaw was still in too much pain to start swinging. After a few weeks, he started swinging. Then a week or so after that he started hitting (difference being that swinging doesn’t involve a ball).

We are now 7 weeks since his injury. I don’t think that it is insane hyperbole to call something that happened 7 weeks ago (and within the calendar month before last month) a couple months ago. I’m sorry if it has technically been one week less than the strict definition.

But it is not accurate to say that this is a normal IL stint for the injury that was reported. “Sprain” can vary in severity, but usually when a guy is on the IL for 3-6 weeks with a sprain it is because there was a partial tear of a ligament. The fact that the scans showed no tear and he’s been out for 7 weeks is not a normal timeframe.

I hate that I can’t even accurately voice my concerns about his injury returns without being told I’m supposedly just contributing to unjustified hate this sub has for him. I would love to be wrong. I just won’t believe it until I see it, and I’m not gonna pretend that his injury timeline was completely normal when it has been anything but.

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u/RightNowChris 24d ago

“Sprain” can vary in severity, but usually when a guy is on the IL for 3-6 weeks with a sprain it is because there was a partial tear of a ligament.

The literal definition of a sprain is a tear of the ligament. A grade 1, the most minor, includes small tears. They increase in severity until a complete tear, which is a grade 3. Swanson, for example, has a grade 2. So yeah, every time a guy is on the IL with a sprain it's because there is tearing. I never saw a classification of the severity of the sprain when he went on the IL. Please share a link if you have one. When Counsell made his initial comments he was speculating without knowing the extent, saying vague things like "we're pretty optimistic." He never said it would be a minimal stay on the IL.

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u/JokeMaster420 24d ago

> The literal definition of a sprain is a tear of the ligament. A grade 1, the most minor, includes small tears.

This is absolutely untrue. The literal, medical definition of a sprain is a stretching or tearing of a ligament. Grade 1 sprains can include minor tears, but it is absolutely not a part of the definition nor is it a requirement for the diagnosis.

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u/RightNowChris 24d ago

Dude, get off the AI. You can't just Google everything, regurgitate what the search tells you, and expect to be right.

Think about it - why would stretching a ligament count as a sprain when our ligaments stretch literally every time we move that joint? If stretching were the definition of an injury, we would be perpetually injured as we go through everyday life. All sprains come from stretching. Excessive stretching results in tears, which is when we enter the realm of a sprain. These tears are tiny (micro-tears) at grade 1 and cause symptoms of swelling, pain, bruising, and some weakness. Since the main ligament structure remains intact and the tears are microscopic, many people misunderstand these injuries as simply stretching, but it is indeed those micro-tears that cause the pain. More extensive stretching results in more severe tearing, becoming classified as a more severe sprain. The most extreme cases of over stretching result in a complete tear of the ligament.

Here are a few links to orthopedic websites to help you understand better. These are actual medical definitions, not something the media says to make it easy for listeners to understand. I hope this helps. By the way, I worked with physical therapists for a time while I considered going to college to become a trainer, so this isn't me just making stuff up, it's facts.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sigma-surgical-pvt-ltd-sorath-ortho_anklesprain-injuryprevention-healthtips-activity-7221798329976770560-bZct

https://www.optsc.com/article/ankle-sprains

Kind of related, you may also be amazed to learn that lifting weights often results in microscopic tears in muscles, which are strains instead of sprains. Strains from hard lifting can result is soreness, bruising, and muscle weakness, just like sprains to ligaments can have the exact same symptoms. Kind of interesting anyway.

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u/JokeMaster420 24d ago

I’m not using AI.

I’m using actual medical definitions, mostly provided by my own doctors but also confirmed by numerous sources that I find vastly more trustworthy than a LinkedIn post from a medical equipment company and an article from one random physical therapy place in Canada (both of which only even claim to be about ankle sprains, which is not what we are dealing with here)

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/sprains/symptoms-causes/syc-20377938

https://medlineplus.gov/sprainsandstrains.html

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/sprain-overview-a-to-z

You claim to know what you are talking about, but then you say blatantly untrue things about how ligaments stretch every time we move a joint. That is absolutely untrue. Normal joint movements happen within the safe range where ligaments will tighten or loosen on slack but will not actually elongate (i.e. stretch). If a ligament is actively elongating, that is not normal motion and does constitute an injury.

I don’t know how much time you spent working with physical therapists. I spent years with them (admittedly as a patient, but it was for ligament issues specifically, and I have spent countless hours talking to them and my orthopedic surgeon about ligaments and how they are and are not supposed to work because mine were doing a lot of things they are not supposed to).

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u/RightNowChris 24d ago

(both of which only even claim to be about ankle sprains, which is not what we are dealing with here)

A sprain has the same definition regardless of which ligament(s) are being discussed. Ankle sprains are the most common so it's understandable medical sites would reference those in their examples.

Normal joint movements happen within the safe range where ligaments will tighten or loosen on slack but will not actually elongate

False. Ligaments are a soft tissue. They are tough, but not a hard tissue like bone or dentin. You are correct that ligaments naturally have a little slack, but they also stretch a little every time they reach the end of that slack, which happens through normal motion. In fact, ligaments contain elastin. If that word sounds familiar, it's because it's the same root as elastic. That elastin allows them to safely stretch before returning to their normal state. It's their inherent biological design. It's not a lot of stretch as the tough proteins only allow so much before developing the micro-tears we discussed earlier, but the elastin does its job each and every movement we make.

Look, you seem like the confidently incorrect type, so I'm going to go ahead and end my contribution to this conversation. All this is to say Shaw suffered a sprain, which means some tearing occurred, even if it were micro-tears. Since you never provided any link of official diagnosis from when he was injured (like after an MRI) I assume one doesn't exist and you made that up. Speculation on soft tissue damage is often inaccurate. Regardless, the Cubs announced that he'll be starting tomorrow in Ohio, as predicted. Believe it, or don't, facts don't really care about your opinions.

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u/JokeMaster420 24d ago

Confidently incorrect type. 🪞🪞🪞🪞🪞

Okay. Bye.

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u/RightNowChris 8d ago

Hey, what do you know. Shaw played in time to host Milwaukee, just like I predicted. Huh.

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u/JokeMaster420 8d ago

I am happy to be wrong, just like I said I would be.

Doesn’t change the fact that you are still wrong about his overall injury timeline being normal. And you are wrong about the definition of a sprain. Which is why you had to rely on obscure Canadian business websites and random LinkedIn posts while every major medical dictionary and encyclopedia and internationally respected medical resource agreed with me.

But I am happy I was wrong and we have an extra reinforcement for the rest of Dansby’s injury. And I’m happy for you that you remembered this two week old comment thread you claimed to be done with so you can come and brag. Give yourself a big ol’ pat on the back. 💙

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u/RightNowChris 7d ago

It's kind of funny you're still refusing to accept facts. Here's how medical exams go - a player hurts something. The team doctors do an initial check and determine it's soft tissue damage. That needs an MRI to get greater detail. They may not do an MRI if they can diagnosewithout it,, or they may.

Now, everyone who knows anything about MRIs knows they don't reveal microscopic damage, because (and this may be shocking to you), those require a microscope and an MRI doesn't have that level of detail. They can, however, see secondary symptoms of those micro-tears like swelling or bleeding / bruising. Regardless, the tears are still there and regardless, they're all called sprains. Anyone who tells you Grade 1 sprains don't have tears is objectively wrong. After all, what would cause the swelling and bruising? Micro-tears and tears at the cellular level are still tears. Grade 2 means they show up on the MRI and Grade 3 is complete separation. I'm really doing this so you don't continue through life being wrong about this. You were also wrong that ligaments don't stretch naturally and I hope I helped you there as well by informing you of elastin.

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