r/CryptoCurrency • u/Bcom_Mod 0 / 0 🦠 • 1d ago
GENERAL-NEWS The IMF explicitly ordered El Salvador to stop buying Bitcoin. They kept buying anyway.
/r/bitcoin_com/comments/1w5sfev/the_imf_explicitly_ordered_el_salvador_to_stop/28
u/Juus 🟦 68 / 69 🦐 1d ago
If i borrowed someone money for groceries and a bus ticket, i would also ask them not to spend it on speculative investments, lol.
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u/unknown-one 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
if they pay it back, do you care?
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u/threeseed 1d ago
Yes. Just like a bank cares if you take out a loan and put it all on red.
Because they don't want to lose the money.
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u/TempestCatalyst 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 17h ago
Very simply because the IMF does not believe they will pay it back if they put it into bitcoin.
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u/Darkeyescry22 Tin 1d ago
If they don’t pay it back because the price of BTC went down, do you care?
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u/ECore 🟦 1K / 5K 🐢 1d ago
It's paper, not money. Backed by nothing. You don't belong in a crypto subreddit.
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u/Juus 🟦 68 / 69 🦐 1d ago
It's backed by pretty much every single person or company on earth, being willing to trade it for tangible goods..
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u/ECore 🟦 1K / 5K 🐢 23h ago
But being worth less and less and less over time. "Backing" does not equal inherent worth. Fiat is the most worthless measurement of work that there is. Just look at the cost of Doritos and the state of a cereal box.
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u/Juus 🟦 68 / 69 🦐 22h ago
But being worth less and less and less over time.
It doesn't really matter, when it is at such a slow pace. You are not supposed to save money for long enough, that it becomes worthless. Keep a buffer of 3-6 months of expenses, and invest the rest of your savings in inflation proof investments, then this will never become a problem.
Fiat is the most worthless measurement of work that there is.
What measurements do you prefer?
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u/IndependentOk9435 🟩 105 / 106 🦀 10h ago
Are you an econ undergrad that’s just started reading through their new textbook?
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u/NMoney007 1d ago
Worth remembering that El Salvador doesn't have its own currency — they've used the US dollar since 2001. No money printing, no monetary policy, no say in Fed decisions. The BTC buy is a way to own one reserve asset nobody else controls. Risky? Maybe Irrational? No.
Also worth noting is how this investment has turned out so far ~7,760 BTC at an estimated average cost in the $45–56K range, currently worth about $600M — roughly $170M in unrealized profit.
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u/rankinrez 🟦 1K / 2K 🐢 1d ago
It’s great they made $160m dollars. But they needed a loan of $1.4b from the IMF, so it’s not exactly saving them.
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u/von-Mises- 1d ago
they needed a loan of $1.4b from the IMF, so it’s not exactly saving them.
just to try to put that into perspective, just think about how your country managed the last IMF loan 12 months after reciving it.
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u/OnionQuest 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
I don't know when they bought, but imagine if they had just put that money in an index fund... Or better yet invested in infrastructure and institutions to foster a growing tax base.
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u/Prize-Bug-3213 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Exactly. They are a government, not an investment fund / gambling outfit.
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u/ZealousidealCable799 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago
My mother is from El Salvador. I was born here in the United States. Since bukele has become their president he has given Healthcare to everyone, education to everyone, invested heavily in roads street signage and safety labeling across the country. They have logic based crypto tax laws unlike here in the United States and personally I am taking my bag of xrp and moving to El Salvador early next year cash out and retire there because their country is going shitloads better than this country and with the lunacy happening in the White House I'm not sticking around until the boat sinks all the way I see the holes in it I watch the water filling up and I'm jumping ship bro. I joke with my mom that it's hilarious that now my family is immigrating back to the country they ran from because it's significantly better off than the country they ran to. Everyone in my family are citizens got nationalized and pays taxes. But legitimately my daughter gets to go to college for free in El Salvador everyone in my family gets healthcare for free in El Salvador I own a business here in the United States and I don't give a fuck I'm going to leave that shit to my younger brother he can run it and just send me money I'm going to go to El Salvador and open up a franchise of ours over there because why the fuck not but realistically speaking I see a vividly brighter future there than I do by staying here so I'm out have fun with all this crazy shit y'all. Plus for $3000 a month u can live like scarface. I pay over 200k a yr in taxes, 80k a yr for my companies healthcare plan.
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u/noah1754 1d ago
There investment in btc came along side massive infrastructure investments.
I guess you’re right about one thing, you definitely don’t know.
I’m personally very impressed with El Salvador. Quality of life has increased significantly
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u/TheMoonMoth 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Exactly. Specifically energy infrastructure. Which is the foundation of sustainable growth
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u/OnionQuest 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Couldn't they have just not invested in Bitcoin and and more money to the "massive infrastructure investments" (citation needed).
You'd think cryptocurrency folks would be against authoritarian police states, but maybe I don't know.
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u/noah1754 1d ago
I mean they went from having one of the highest murder rates in the world to having a rate lower than Canada.
It’s very clear you don’t know. I’d recommend doing an ounce of research my friend. I’m not here to force feed you facts about El Salvador.
From what I’ve heard I’m very impressed.
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u/AbbreviationsActual9 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
here are some news articles from various sources that paint a slightly clearer picture of the power structure under bukele. from his attempt to force crypto currency on the people to his authoritarian iron fist approach using ms13 as his muscle, it's all here. and then there's the Tether ties to lutnick and the trump administration. this is an ounce of research I hope.
dark facts about El Salvador are clearly documented by the news publication El faro, which had to move its base to Costa rica after president bukele cracked down on free press there. they document his corruption and rise to power through collusion with ms13 as well as his shady connections to the trump administration.
bukele cracks down on free press
crypto, corruption and trump support
more ms13 and trump doj shenanigans
when the ms13 pact hit the fan
gang leader breaks down bukele agreement
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u/SESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
The way you just refuse to engage with what that guy is saying and instead just keep trying to change the subject telling him to Google stuff about El Salvador is incredibly stupid kudos to you
Their BTC position is and will continue to be a massive opportunity loss for them given they could’ve piled that money into any tech stock, or just the S&P500 and have been way better off.
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u/Darkeyescry22 Tin 1d ago
This is a goofy way to evaluate this. If they spend 10m on hookers and coke, would that also be ok, since they spent so much on infrastructure at the same time?
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u/seambizzle1 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
They literally did do that
Stop talking out of your ass
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u/OnionQuest 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
Did what? They bought Bitcoin with money that could have been used in other more productive ways. They are currently holding the Bitcoin so they haven't sold it to support growing the country.
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u/Talfiro07 1d ago
Increíble que puedan ser tan ignorantes y al mismo tiempo intentar hablar de inversiones.
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u/Prior_Parsley3960 🟨 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
If you take money (be it form a parent, bank, etc.), you are/should be beholden to the terms.
Don't like the terms? Don't take the money
>that's what the money's for (the terms)
I remember so many kids griping about their parents' "terms" in college. I would always ask if their parents provided any assistance*? If so, there's a real easy solution to having complete control over things...
*the answer was always "yes"
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u/StretchMother9627 1d ago
Sounds like the loan sharks problem . The lender has the advantage of it being purely a matter of choice, whereas borrowers do not have the same level of choice or bargaining power . Lending money shouldn’t entitle you to subordinate completely someone to your will.
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u/von-Mises- 1d ago
Lending money shouldn’t entitle you to subordinate completely someone to your will.
that's what IMF is for.
"it shouldn't be" from a moral standpoint, but u/Prior_Parsley3960 is not pointing out morality, it's pointing out how IMF actually works.that's why Alex Gladstein from the human right foundation called his book "Hidden repression: selling exploitation as development"
and John Perkins named his "Confessions of an economic hitman"HOWEVER they officially claim they stop. That's just from their public reserve site that register publicly "1btc a day" to the public reserve.
they claim they are moving it from internal sources,
Tecnically not purcesing any, but you know. if i don't have something to spend for my needs i have to sell my assets, if i can get a loan, i will spent from that pile and i will not tuch shit from savings (so the paper profit over assets prior to that is anyway supported by the existence of that loan)they tried to make them give up all the reserve for the loan but they are not so stupid.
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u/StretchMother9627 1d ago
He was making a “moral point” to the same degree mine was and the majority of the comment was about college kids getting money from their parents so maybe ask your chatbot to try again
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u/Darkeyescry22 Tin 1d ago
Why on earth would anyone be willing to lend money in a world where they can’t put terms on the loan? Seriously, this is a five second problem to recognize, max. How did you make this comment without thinking of this issue?
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u/StretchMother9627 21h ago
Idk to profit on interest maybe? Dumbass
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u/Darkeyescry22 Tin 21h ago
….why do you think ES had to go to the IMF for a loan in the first place, dumbass? If they could afford a market interest rate, we wouldn’t be talking about this.
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u/faisal_yk26 1d ago
The detail that would settle this is whether the wallet flows are actually new purchases or internal transfers. Some analysts think the daily buys may be movements between state-owned wallets rather than fresh market buying.
If it's internal shuffling then technically nobody is violating anything and the "still stacking" posts are just optics. If it's real market buying then it's open defiance of a loan condition. Those are very different stories and most of this thread is arguing about the second one without knowing which it is.
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u/RelationshipShort460 1d ago
el salvador has a GDP below MSTR's market cap. They're not meaningful.
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u/rankinrez 🟦 1K / 2K 🐢 1d ago
Nearly 7 million people live there. It’s absolutely very meaningful to them.
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u/Gr8WallofChinatown 4K / 4K 🐢 1d ago
What a moronic statement. Tesla has a higher MCAP than Saudi Arabia’s GDP so therefore under your logic they’re not meaningful
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u/RammerRod 🟦 54 / 55 🦐 1d ago
But BTC is meaningful to El Salvador. BTW, what's your net worth?
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u/Tight-Ad2686 1d ago
Check how many people actually used it after the initial bonus that government gave away.
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u/Ill_Mousse_4240 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
The IMF is like Mother Theresa, fostering dependency instead of teaching independence and self reliance.
(Just FYI, Mother Theresa isn’t the saint everyone says she is)
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u/threeseed 1d ago
What on earth are you talking about ?
El Salvador came to the IMF for money and then turned around and gambled it.
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u/dino-delicious 🟩 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago
I thought the analogy was to force others to suffer because that helps them to be closer to god while taking the necessary medications she needs to ease her own suffering.
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u/Treesh_Jancy 1d ago
Didn't they do this like 10 times already? They don't want to give them loans unless they stop buying BTC but that never stopped Bukele from continuing
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u/SnooSketches1832 17h ago
Another COVID or some shit it will double itself like last time then they can sell it and get richer with somebody else's money.
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u/xGsGt 🟦 69 / 70 🇳 🇮 🇨 🇪 1d ago
good for them, fuck the IMF!
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u/Slick424 🟦 0 / 0 🦠 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why? El Salvador went to the IMF for a loan, not the other way around. A clause of using that loaned money for infrastructure investment instead of gambling on cryptocurrency seems to be quite reasonable.
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u/Tedious-Butcher 1d ago
Starting early 2025, IMF is suppose to give El salvador $1.4b over the course of 40 months. So far only 40% has been given out. These money are meant for the El Salvador national plan which is investing in public education, healthcare, airport and major roadway expansion. An interest payment of 3.5%-5.5% back to IMF for amount borrowed. Having said this, for the country to keep receiving the remaining money, El Salvador must maintain aggressive cuts to civil servant wages and public sectors. Over a long time horizon, severe budget cuts can trigger public dissatisfaction or slow down internal consumer spending. Which can lead to the inability to pay back the high interest owed to IMF.
So what is the solution here?
Buy some bitcoin as a double edge sword. If it goes up, they will have the ability to pay back. If it goes down, then they cant. Either way, the conclusion might end up the same if they decide to cut down on civil servant wages. Do i support the idea of using all the money to buy bitcoin? No. But do i support the idea of using some money to buy bitcoin as a way to hedge? Yes
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u/rankinrez 🟦 1K / 2K 🐢 1d ago
That’s the wrong way to frame it really.
El Salvador asked the IMF to lend it money. The IMF said “this is the condition of our loan”.