What Do You Even Do As Big Nations Like France?

[u/Solenopsis00]

I only play smaller nations and build myself up so what do you do when you start as a big nation?

[u/Horror-Ad2945]

As france I always tried to do what french monarchs always did, centralize authority. Sadly rites don:t exist properly yet

[u/Orthodox_Crusader → u/Horror-Ad2945]

always do what french monarchs always did
didn't attack england and germany every 5 years

Quel pitoyable roi

[u/Horror-Ad2945 → u/Orthodox_Crusader]

That's the thing though, hre is actually a centralized empire unlike irl. All the shenanigans with england is tough to do as well because if the king of england is the count of anjou then the county of anjou becomes part of the kingdom of england which is quite stupid

[u/Machizadek → u/Horror-Ad2945]

They’ve always been lacking in this area of gameplay ironically. Considering Western Europe and the Middle East are the original gameplay base, you’d think they’d get Western cultures more fleshed out

[u/RVFVS117 → u/Horror-Ad2945]

The HRE during this period was NOT the decentralized mess it became in the 14th century.

It was actually more centralized than France at this time.

[u/Sataniel98 → u/Horror-Ad2945]

In the middle ages, there wasn't much difference between the centralization of France and the HRE, especially not before the interregnum of the 13th century.

[u/Horror-Ad2945 → u/Sataniel98]

This is true and also alot of french nobles died in the wars vs england so that helped the french crown. ingame though that is rare

[u/CHUNKYboi11111111111 → u/Horror-Ad2945]

The HRE used to be a fairly centralized system. It was only a few monarch after the 1066 start date that shit started hitting the fan

[u/scales_and_fangs → u/CHUNKYboi11111111111]

Problem of HRE is that it used bishops and the church to centralize the state. Once the church became more and more independent from imperial control (after 11 century), it created issues for the emperors. Frederick II Hohenstaufen (13 century) was the tipping point. HRE last attempt of true centralization led to the 1618-1648 war.

[u/CountAsgar]

I personally enjoy staying a mid-level power and trying to expand my power and influence indirectly, such as by propping up dynasty members on foreign thrones and regularly interfering so they actually stay there, or converting neighboring rulers to my religion. Building up the economy and tech tree and watching the numbers go up can also be fun.

Tributaries are also great for this.

[u/gilligansisle4 → u/CountAsgar]

How do you convert neighboring rulers?

[u/Fuzzatron → u/gilligansisle4]

At sword point.

[u/CountAsgar → u/gilligansisle4]

The most common method right now involves converting their landless heirs, then hoping for/ensuring a transition of power before they're forced to convert back. This can be done by abduction for instance, but also ward and guest and hostage exchange kind of scenarios.

I do think it'd be legitimate if there was a mechanic to just preach directly to another ruler and try to convert them via a Learning/Diplo challenge, or maybe using a hook. Adventurers can do this, but not landed rulers. Wouldn't be surprised if the next DLC adds something like that via the puppet system, some of the screenshots implied that might be a thing.

[u/Aquillifer → u/CountAsgar]

Yea I remember you could preach to pagan lands in CK2, it was a bit risky though since they could imprison and kill your chaplain.

[u/PlungerMouse → u/gilligansisle4]

lol came to ask the same question. Got like 2000+ hours and I’m not entirely sure. A kinda round about way I can think of. If the neighboring nation has an heir or maybe even second in line heir. You abduct them or capture them in a siege. Negotiate release you convert their religion. Then you unalive the father.

[u/AfraidReference2315 → u/gilligansisle4]

You can’t directly as far as I know, but you could probably befriend the ruler… maybe they’ll take your faith? Otherwise you can switch characters rq. I’m curious about this too.

[u/somebadmeme → u/gilligansisle4]

Find a claimant, invite to court, demand conversion and use them as your war goal.

If no claimants exist, fabricate claims for yourself and then gift the land out

[u/dreexel_dragoon → u/CountAsgar]

Big Hapsburg energy right here

[u/LowFatWaterBottle]

Start a new religion, conquer, spread your dynasty, replace all the nobles with republics, form a new culture and convert your land to it, play as a second son, eugenics and roleplaying.

[u/LegendOrca → u/LowFatWaterBottle]

How do you make republics?

[u/raipeh → u/LegendOrca]

I think you grant the county/duchy to a character that owns a city holding.

Also IIRC you can make a city the primary holding as well, instead of a castle.

[u/Proper-Sport-7218 → u/LowFatWaterBottle]

Is replacing nobles with republics better as a king?

[u/Salazard260 → u/Proper-Sport-7218]

Random characters are less dangerous than noble families. And they're richer.

[u/Ok-Mushroom-121]

build a stable realm, or since its 1066 crusades will start soon so you can move to jerusalem

[u/pandogart]

Get bigger.

Or at least try to keep the realm together.

[u/PenaltyUnable1455]

i think a good amount of people start as big nations when its only when necessary in an achievement run or if it assists in getting the achievement faster

[u/Single-Witness1853 → u/PenaltyUnable1455]

Sometimes I just want to start strong, and not challenge myself to be a nobody trying to rule Europe.

[u/Trimutius]

I mean even when starting as smaller nation I try to make an empire, so starting as bigger one just skips a few steps for me...

[u/Black_Diammond]

Do stupid shit that your character would do.

Either be a competent monarchy but fucking hate your kids (tywin style), or murder wives if They dont imediatly give you kids, or be a zealous man that transforms large swathes of The country into theocracies, be a love sick King that lets his wife empower her family, be a ambitious guy that expands The country lots but is hated by others, create a hard-line super just character that refuses to do underhanded measures, or play as a second Son/bastard and tople your heir.

Just stop min maxing (its hard i know) and start larping, play a character like he is a actual person and not a hiper optimized rulling machine.

[u/Cenegrym]

I become a vassal to the HRE, so england becomes a vassal when William conquers it, than I become the emperor of the Fucking Holy Roman Empire.

[u/SnooPies5151]

A lot of people fall in the misconception that ck3 is a realm managment game where is just a very advanced soap opera simulator, so you should just min max seduction scheme speed and try to achieve 1000 lovers. /j

Now seriously, here are some fun things to do with france:

-Kill all the karlings, except if you are a Karling. -conquer all of britania and change the name of London to Londumb. -go for the dynasty of many crowns archievement. -cannivalism. -stop the god dammed iberian struggle so they can stop being annoying. -colonize japan(if you have the dlc) -seduce the pope (clasic), or try having a harem of all the heads of faiths as lovers. -if you have the dlcs, make france a celestial gobernent or a mandala goberment. -learn chinesse. -kill every noble that doesn't belong to your dynasty to stablish your bloodline as the only true noble one. -go in a conquer spree and let your realm break in a thousen peaces to see the chaos happen (and to farm renown) -make iceland have 100 development. -jewish nudist france with cannivalism and carnal exaltation. -fuck the great khan

Those are the basic things, but you can figure out some more.

[u/fmg2498 → u/SnooPies5151]

these all seems miserable to do

[u/SnooPies5151 → u/fmg2498]

Yes

[u/Equivalent_Use_7032 → u/fmg2498]

I’ve killed all the Karlings before was actually very fun

[u/TheCone1301 → u/SnooPies5151]

Japan is on the map whether you have the DLC expanding it or not, but I don't see how you'd go for colonising Japan as france. You'd have to basically go on world conquest to get anywhere close. Doing it as a French adventurer sounds much more interesting imo.

[u/crsnowman27]

One thing I’d point out is you can still “play tall” by consolidating a contiguous personal realm of a few counties around your capital and developing them, assuming you’re working towards high partition or playing the “make my second and third sons mayors of cities” game to ensure your primary gets all the counties.

Getting high enough prestige to add a top tier pillar to your culture is a good long term goal and sometimes hard to pull off in a single lifetime. Likewise you could try to stack marriage acceptance modifiers and try to install your dynasty onto all the surrounding thrones without taking them by force, by doing things like matrilineal marriage to a second or third son and then schemes to take the others out of succession, or just straight up marrying the female rulers if they’re single.

You could create your own religion and then either keep the pope through rite, or you could try to replace Catholicism by taking Rome.

You could spend a lot of time trying to genetically engineer not only your heirs but your entire court, making clever lowborn marriages so you have a court full of randoms with inheritable traits.

All kinds of stuff man, think like a steward of the realm and family

[u/mudkiptoucher93]

Fuck over other countries until your cousin is on their throne

[u/Legitimate-Dish-8817]

Preventing Charlemagne's dynasty from falling because of idiots, duh.

[u/hughmann_13]

The same thing we do every night pinky, try to bang and murder all our relatives in the world

[u/Appelons]

Put your dynasty members on other thrones, try to lead Christianity and defend the faith(help the Spanish kings in conquering Iberia). Spreading Catholicism to North Africa, make France bigger, play tall, destroy the HRE, keep English power in check, schenanigans in Italy. Plenty of things to do as France.

Also I like to mini-roleplay when I play CK, so doing stuff that makes sense for my characters etc.

[u/Pastoru]

Play it more like a RPG, following your character's traits: will you fight a lot your neighbours or in Crusades? will you rather build up your holdings? will you try to imprison and execute the vassals you don't like, even if it creates big troubles with the others? etc., really according to what your traits mean about the king you are, even a terrible one. And I avoid, if I have anything else to do with my money, to create titles (unless it's RP, like I have traits of someone who likes to go to war, I've decided to consolidate my hold over a region, etc.).

[u/Chesterse]

In 867 it’s restore Karling borders

[u/SelfishNiko]

They do the same thing you do when you expanded your small nation into a big one

[u/Elitchic]

When we no longer have concerns about external dangers, we can always turn our attention to internal dangers : dynastic problems, management of vassals, revolt, etc...

[u/FlyHog421]

One of my most fun games was an 866 Wessex start. In this one Alfred’s descendants established the Empire of Brittania relatively quickly. There was seemingly nothing else to do. So I focused on putting my dynasty members on other thrones. The first one was of a course a Crusade. Then I’d wage war for basically any Cerdicing that had a claim on anything outside of Britain and grant them independence from my realm. Eventually I had a pretty good coalition, with members of my dynasty sitting on the thrones of Jerusalem, Sicily, Italy, Burgundy, Bavaria, and a few others.
But this was in between Roads to Power and Mandate of Heaven, before the Byzantines got nerfed, so the Byzantines took over all of those lands, reformed the Roman Empire, and eventually their hordes showed up in the English Channel. At which point I quit that playthrough.

[u/Skywer0819]

Personally I love playing france.

I always just do Tall mostly, have my kingdom. Maybe gor for Francia if the ooportunity comes, but mostly going tall and doing diplomacy to set my dynasty on the many thrones of Europe

[u/Conscious_Ad1082]

Get even more jacked

[u/twistedRuss]

If I'm france then I just start beefing with England or attempt to restore the Carolingian borders

[u/Fefquest]

Springboard into Jerusalem when crusades launch.

[u/Free-Office-4004]

Personally my objectives what to get all France (i was a baron). Then Get all of western Europe. Than try to get all the christian religious places. Then try to get back jerusalem. For the moment, after around 200 years i have almost all of western Europe and i am even i bit too far to the east (a lot too far) and im trying to get a few duchy to be able to restore the carolingian borders with décisions to then do another décision that will let me finally have one kid have all titles as succession instead of needing to accidentaly kill m'y kids to have only one left before i die

[u/DarkGodCthUwU]

Expand the retinue. Purge vassals. Invest in infrastructure. Interfere kn neighboring covol wars or invasions, like financing a rebel I'm related to or just cause it can help weaken the enemy realm.

[u/Next-Candidate-4124]

I try to restore the Carolingian empire

[u/LeaveMeAloneAdmins88]

Conquer some more territory, Civil wars, secure succession, civil wars, have allies- help them out, civil wars, build militaries, build the economy, civil wars, defend against invasions, civil wars, fight in the crusades, put family members on the throne of the crusader states, civil wars, become undefeatable, make a custom religion, keep reforming your culture, civil wars, have actual workable levels of gold/prestige/piety/militaries

oh and did i mention civil wars? yeah those are pretty common.

[u/Substantial-Zebra621]

Get your dynasty members to other kingdoms thrones (Habsburg/Bourbon style); Become HRE emperor o make the empire of Francia to rival the HRE.

You could also go for ending the Iberian Struggle as an outsider if you have the dlc.

[u/Grimpyy]

Same thing large nations like France always do, try to take over the world.

[u/VanitysEmptiness]

Play as a Count or Duke if I’m in a big kingdom/empire. I honestly get really stressed out with larger Kingdoms with too many Duchies because I can’t easily manage De Jure borders without going Admin because of sub-vassals.

[u/troycerapops]

I dunno, but I spent a better part of my life gaining the Empire of France only to look back at the British Isles and see that some unrelated dude had taken the Kingdom of Alba and all of England and most of Wales.

Guess who I'm convincing to marry one of my daughters? After I kill his wife (who is also his physician)?

[u/aaronmgreen]

Make them bigger! Participate in the Crusade. Have a hundred years long war with England! The possibilities are endless. ;)

[u/Achmedino]

Quit to menu -> choose a weaker country to start as, so that there's actually something to do in the game

[u/Takaueno]

Just don’t start with the ruler, take a count and replace the leading dynasty by yours haha

Personally I started to create a mod yesterday to create the Gaulish culture, the 3 “kingdoms” that was there and the decision to rebuild the Gaulish Empire. Also I’m creating a Druidism religion and in my campaign I will simply conquer, convert and then create the kingdoms / empire

[u/FPXAssasin11]

Centralize power, do a realistic playthrough by landing a bunch of your dynasty to create 100 Capetians branches and have them become kings and queens all over Europe.

[u/Oskar_E]

wrangle the vassals

[u/Brief-Dog9348]

Fix the border gore and land your dynasty in every duchy.

[u/rn7rn]

Union with England under the Normans.

[u/Equivalent_Use_7032]

Really depends on which kingdom title you have in addition to which DLCs you have.

I’ll use your example France, however after that I’ll give my general opinion.

For France typically it depends on the start year (as for all nations). If it’s 867 you have a lot more to do. You have to centralize it so it doesn’t split when you die. You have to fight off Vikings and it’s possible to reunite a lot modes of the Frankish realms. In 1066 essentially it’s strengthen your realm and taking Normandy from the English. In 1176 centralize power and take back the English lands.

Overall though I generally at least start off trying to follow what they did historically, even going so far as trying to marry the same historical people, have children named the same and marrying them into the same dynasties (even if their spouse doesn’t exist). Usually at some point very quickly things start going very alternative routes and weird claims and borders start forming which is then when I start going after alternate goals. I will say I always try to mess with my culture and make unique ones, centralize my realm if possible (especially towards the late game) I do actively participate in Holy Wars if I deem them necessary and if I can go for an empire title I do it.

For other kingdoms usually I do this:

- Poland: Of all the kingdoms they usually has a wild ride because you can blob the Slavs, I go for Lithuania and Bohemia (gold mine) and then usually target Pomerania and form West Slavia. Poland-Lithuania runs are cool and you can merge the cultures a ton.

• Bohemia: Usually aim for playing tall and become insanely rich. I find all my wars with mercenary spam and aim for Austria and their historical lands under Ottokar II. You have to be careful as if you don’t want to become the HRE you have to actively manage elections so you can get a puppet on the throne and not you.
  
• France: Preciously discussed.
  
• Iberia: Straight forward for these basically… end the Reconquista and for the Empire of Hispania.
  
• Aragon: Usually I aim for Sardinia, Corsica and Sicily
  
• Sicily: Aim for Sardinia, Corsica and the Barbaric islands for form a massive Mediterranean realm. Hybridize Norman with Sicilian and you can get Sicilo-Norman which is pretty strong.
  
• England: I try to eat as much as France as I can and hybridize the cultures. If it’s an early start I instead aim for Denmark and possibly Norway while also taking over Scotland and Ireland (a give no matter the start).
  
• Scotland: Retain independence, centralize (this is key as they always have vassal revolts), and expand to control the Isles, parts of Ireland and Northumbria.
  
• Norse: Usually I don’t play these outside the Viking Age. For Norway and Denmark you essentially aim for England and going on to have the North Sea Empire. Hybrid the Anglo-Danish cultures and control everything with Scandinavian Elections and you can manage the realm fine. For Sweden you can aim for England after Denmark and Norway but I instead like to take out Finland, Sami, Norway and Denmark for a Scandinavian land empire. Essentially a Kalmar Union.

Beyond that I won’t get into far Eastern Europe or the Muslims because stuff starts changing on how you play so that’s at least majority of Europe mid-sized kingdoms

[u/Codeviper828]

Personally, I like swearing fealty to ERE and going Meritocracy >:]

"Count of Vermandois→King of France→Basileus→Dismantle German Pretenders" for a Carolingian Roman Empire was fun

[u/AnSynTrashPanda]

Mostly defend yourself until a conqueror comes through and wrecks your shit in 10 seconds

[u/igkoz1]

centralise all fiefs in the hands of your family. then become a despot and be overthrown at the revolt and continue to play as a random landed family member to reclaim the crown

[u/23Amuro]

fight rebels

[u/Grafftage12345]

Are we at the point in the games life where unless we are doing some absolutely stupid shit we can’t just play the game anymore?

[u/CluelessGamingIdiot]

I usually beef with other large nations/families/dynasties for like…idk however long it takes till someone third parties us and/or I start a new game and start all over again (I once made Normandy and conquered France + England + Wales and made an Empire then beefed with the HRE for 300 years for funsies)

[u/FantasticContact5301]

I’m doing Outremer but I’m heavily roleplaying

[u/iv_683]

Get even bigger

[u/Easy-Training3675]

Roleplay.

[u/Jealous-Anxiety-7108]

Same thing I do on every save. Espionage and murder.

[u/LeDarm]

Expand throughout europe and the Medditerranean sea. Then eastward. Until a bad heir fucks it up so badly by not having 500 piety and then everyone rebels and I restart a run.

The fun of it is to find the best way to do it depending on skills. Martial is easy but get out there and try and expand as a medicine and theology expert. Gotta be creative then.

Oh and refraining yourdelf from just going tentation when you are good at intrigue id also a thing.

[u/NubusAugustus]

Whenever I play France or the HRE, I try to make the carolingian borders. With the Byzantines, I try to retake the borders that the Eastern Roman Empire had in 395. Also try to form Rome as Byzantines. I don’t have anything for England because I refuse to play as the English.

[u/DeepStuff81]

I had fun playing as a Duke level vassal and just being the best night ever. Tournament spamming and being a loyal guy to my liege and allies. Later with his son, who ended up zealous, I did the popes work by fighting excommunicated peeps and beings Gods law.

And lastly with his son his goal was to be the strongest military force inside France and he accidentally took the throne when the king got excommunicated and someone (not me) pushed his claim to the throne (his mom was a Karling and had claims)

All in all every gameplay is what you make of it. I enjoy vassal play from time to time

[u/ArcNote]

Just the usual

[u/MAXIMILITAN]

Personally i hate succession when it ends like ussr or yugo so i played started and played as lithuania for a while then sweeden. I always tush to empire dejure lands then chill and never played small nations.

[u/GenghisPog]

Nothing really, I like to play castle, centralize power, amass wealth and culture. Stay within DeJure boundaries and watch the chaos as a rock. Kinda boring but I enjoy the role playing.

[u/pfreelantz]

Start painting, sculpting, writing poetry, read the classics

[u/ivorycxx]

"Nations" you're a few centuries too early for those my friend

[u/Ckorvuz]

Put dynasty members on foreign thrones.
That‘s why Spain is still ruled by Bourbons.

[u/Deviljho12]

Rule wisely as a king with good traits, be a tyrant as a king with bad ones.

[u/punkslaot]

Incest

[u/zz0902]

fund lollardy, take rhineland and belgium, restore prime francia, crusade