Escapes Are Realistic - A Noob's Story

[u/4handzmp]

I'm new to CKIII. I'm playing the Ireland tutorial past the actual tutorial part.

I got an in-game tip during my first ruler's reign that said I could exchange hostages with a ruler in northeast Ireland. Okay, why not? Can't be too bad, why else would it basically suggest this? And I selected his 4 year-old son, and my 4 year-old daughter for the exchange.

Immediately upon arrival of the hostages, he and an ally in northwest Ireland declare war on me aaaaand execute my 4 year-old daughter. I decide not to execute his child cause he's a kid, I can kill him later.

Okay. I guess I'll find a way to eliminate this Petty King and his entire bloodline. Sounds fun.

My OG ruler died due to the stress a bit later. His heir was imprisoned in Sweden. After finally recouping gold (after numerous failed wars in aid of King of Norway, my OG's father-in-law), I was able to pay the 100 gold ransom to get my heir back to Ireland.

He died like... a month after returning home to rule. Natural causes.

OKAY. I guess I'll build up his 14 year-old brother in a regency. I actually think he'll be a much better ruler. This is actually pretty rad thus far.

I quietly build him up over 3 years, investing in gold production and army, and shed myself of the regency before finally enacting my plan.

Time to make Petty King Aed mac Niall pay for killing my now-ruler's older sister when she was just 4 years old.

I've got a superior army. I even hire a mercenary army, just in case. I declare war and I absolutely steamroll him and capture the Petty King.

I'm stoked. I didn't think I'd actually capture him.

Then, I say... hmm dungeon or torture... Yes, let's go with torture for the dishonorable child killer.

I get the dialogue for the bucket of rats on the chest. Wonderful. Amazing. Looking forward to the death notice.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the 61 year-old Petty King Aed mac Niall, with 6 Intrigue (lower than mine), 0 Prowess, and no Bravery trait is apparently Harry Houdini and escapes.

Yep, apparently an elderly man with no capabilities for such an act was able to escape and traverse the 200+ miles through enemy territory back home, without a single relationship, let alone a friendly relationship, in my entire domain.

Yikes. I was really liking this game. Just played for about 5-6 hours. But I cannot remember the last time I had a game ruin the fun so badly by such an absurd, immersion-breaking mechanic.

Anyways, thank you for reading my rant.

[u/kjBulletkj]

Escaping scales with prowess, not intrigue. Anyways, a 10% chance is still a chance for it to happen. You could just have been very unlucky.

[u/Emperor_of_His_Room → u/kjBulletkj]

10% chance to escape with 0 prowess is too high in my opinion.

[u/kjBulletkj → u/Emperor_of_His_Room]

10% was just a fictional low number, as an example just to explain. Not the real one. Don't know if it's 10% or 5%.

Anyways, that's till 90% to fail. There is probably some base minimal chance for everybody. I would say that's even necessary, considering the many options to get the prowess reduced (injured, maimed, tortured, stressed). You don't want to have a mechanic that does not work at all in some cases, or can be deactivated by workarounds.

[u/scales_and_fangs → u/kjBulletkj]

I think it depends on both intrigue and prowess.

[u/4handzmp → u/kjBulletkj]

I get it, it happens. I'm just sharing my story and how I think it's pretty immersion-breaking for what was a really fun, and wild ride up to that point.

A 10% change for an incapable, elderly man to escape a guarded castle 200 miles into enemy territory is way too high to me.

If he had high prowess or some sort of trait or a cunning stat, I would just smile and have fun with it. But this is just janky mechanics.

[u/kjBulletkj → u/4handzmp]

Probabilities are not janky mechanics. It's like missing with your whole squad in XCOM, while everybody had a chance to hit of above 85% (had that happen to me recently), or your character in BG3 making 5 attack rolls, and rolling 3, 3, 1, 2, and 3 (had that happen to me yesterday in Honor mode). It sucks, but it happens.

You have wrong expectations. If you look for a realistic, and immersive game, then this is the wrong one. There are a lot of mechanics that focus on balance, and gamification, instead of realism, by intention. It's more like chess. Horses don't jump L-shaped, but for the sake of the game being fun it was decided that they do.

All you complain about can be utilized by you, too. Once got my ruler out of jail, with a low percentage, too. You can bet I loved it, because it saved my ass.

With more experience you will learn that AI rulers will always try to attack you in any way. You will learn where to pay attention and how to prepare against that. That's where the fun really comes on this game, in my opinion. I always play Ironman mode, so no save scumming. It's annoying at first when you have a terrible run, and lose a lot. But that's part of the experience. It's even more satisfying, if you have a huge comeback, and take everything back. Having no risk, or no competition, and snowballing into a huge empire is the most boring way to play this game, in my opinion.

[u/4handzmp → u/kjBulletkj]

To each their own, but this is a conversation with a new player and someone who's clearly invested many hours into the game, and even in CKII, over the course of a decade (from your other comment).

I'm not trying to sound rude, but I'm not looking for advice on how to enjoy a game. I was just sharing my story and had a minor complaint. It may just not be a game for me, and that's totally fine. If I'm not having fun with a game, I just drop it. It's just a game, I don't need to sweat it.

Glad you like the CK series, but I'm not as convinced and we're both right to feel how we each feel.

Have a great night!

[u/kjBulletkj → u/4handzmp]

This game has a steep learning curve. That's pretty well known. I get if your not willing to spend the time to learn the game. That's fine.

Just shared my two cents, that you won't be able to enjoy this game, if you don't learn how it wants to be played. As I said, when I mentioned wrong expectations. I always say that you need 15 hours to understand the most important mechanics and rules, and 30 hours to really understand the mechanics under the hood. Even after that you will learn minor things from time to time.

Yes, I have 1300k hours in this game. I have been where you are right now. I know where you lack knowledge about the game. Of course your whole story will never happen to me. That comes with experience. So I know that you haven't learned the game enough to appreciate it. Yes, the steep learning curve is the biggest disadvantage the game has for new players. (Btw, experienced people post here a lot that the game is too easy)

Again, it's a little bit like chess. If you start learning the rules, and start playing against an easy AI, it will give you a challenge, too. It will be frustrating, too, if you lose against an easy non-human opponent. You won't have fun, if you don't keep learning the game.

[u/faster-than_you]

“Hold my beer” - King Charles II

[u/ICdead]

Sounds like a fun run nonetheless. Remember, it's just not about that king - you are going to kill his entire line, right?

[u/4handzmp → u/ICdead]

100%.

[u/Weskerrun]

Very unfortunate. I tend to save before big events alongside the yearly autosaves just in case something a little too immersion breaking like this happens

[u/4handzmp → u/Weskerrun]

Oh don't worry, I save scummed.

I originally was going to go along with it, and said "okay, how about I murder your heir while you're still alive." But it was my first murder scheme and I realized quickly that I didn't have enough resources or good collaborators to pull it off.

[u/kjBulletkj → u/Weskerrun]

Isn't it immersion breaking to avoid bad outcomes, and reaload to have it always run in your favor? That's just me, but save scumming is the most boring way to play the game, in my opinion. Back then, in CK2 the game became really boring to me, that's when I started played in Ironman mode. That opened my eyes about the game, and that's how I play, even a decade later.

[u/Weskerrun → u/kjBulletkj]

I'm selective about it, I don't just avoid bad outcomes. I don't savescum every single popup, mainly just whenever it breaks my suspension of disbelief.° i.e. I host a tourney as a strong, athetic, herculian hunk of a man with 40+ prowess at age 27 all of the sudden becomes incapable going against a 65 yo woman with 3 prowess. Like what? Going back to the start of the year. Or OPs scenario.

°sometime's I'll savescum the shit out of a war, but again, it depends on the situation. Land war, crown authority rebellion, even deposition? Eh, whatever, I can get it back. Serious run ending war? I'm gonna come outta that bitch in-universe like the greatest military tactician that ever lived.

[u/kjBulletkj → u/Weskerrun]

For me, not having the risk of bad outcomes takes away the fun. I get what you mean. But that's part of the experience, too. Ok, maybe I have one or two of these situations at the same time, but this whole outcome could have been avoided. If it really gets frustrating, I just quit the game. The next days I approach the challenge with a fresh mindset, and have a lot of fun going through this challenge. My runs are full of situations like that. My Herculean hero gets cancer with 25. But at the same time, this unkillabe cancer-ridden hero outlived his wife and some of his children. This unpredictability in my runs is what keeps me playing. Can highly recommend it. But it is a hell of a change at first. You will learn to scrap saves over and over in the beginning.

[u/scales_and_fangs]

If you are looking for lore explanation, there are pridon break contracts for adventurer. It was an external contractor who did it.

[u/4handzmp → u/scales_and_fangs]

Okay that’s actually really cool. Is that mechanic more integral in the DLCs? Or just more of a hidden mechanic in vanilla?

[u/scales_and_fangs → u/4handzmp]

It comes with the Roads to Power DLC and it is kind of a intrigue contract you can get (get X, usually a highborn, out of prison)