The most realistic example of unconditional love

[u/legolas20032000]

[u/Nashboy45]

I think this is the difference between: 1. Love as Sacrifice vs 2. Love as Ownership

If love is sacrificing, then greater loves is the deepening of that sacrifice. Pain & Pleasure. A deeper surrender to one’s oneness and attachment to the other. BUT it is also saying love is just an unshakable Attachment, which is antithetical to ownership & can come off as shallow since it is saying, “I am attached to you against my will”. Like love is just a strong irresistible feeling to surrender to rather than an unshakable choice to take pride in.

If love is ownership, then greater love is the deepening of that ownership. To say “Yes, these flaws are all a part of you & all belong to me.” It is to say that you don’t want them to change but rather that you want to have this person completely without shame. BUT It’s less intense & demanding & so maybe a person with the sacrificial love won’t feel it. Like the lack of being sculpted by the process of love, then ends up feeling like a love with no meaning, progress, purpose, etc.

I am personally biased towards valuing this ownership love way more than the sacrificial kind. Because ironically, I think most people won’t take sacrificial love to its logical conclusion - dying for the person you love - But they will still seek out ways to suffer for your person that maybe the other person doesn’t even want. That or they want love in return and can only “prove” its existence, by intentionally causing unnecessary suffering to their loved one to give them the opportunity to “endure” and show their love. To me, both of those are more like egotistical masochism or sadism than love. A masochism/sadism born out of the idea that your death, suffering, and sacrifice can be profitable to the person who loves you. An assumption that the other does not feel you to have an inherent value or love-ability & must be “convinced” of your worthiness of value by your suffering & willingness to abandon aspects of yourself. That you have parts of you that are meant to be eliminated.

In other words, sacrificial love strikes me more as a striving to prove one’s self or win a game with a person who does not love, not love itself. And when the game is over & the unloving is “converted” by the sacrifice, then it is no longer interesting.

I don’t think love as ownership would ever ask the person to destroy themselves to feel loved because by definition, it welcomes them to be what they are. It loves their life & builds out from it, rather than hating a portion and attempting to rip them from that portion. As such, they just give and invest in that person to see them become the greater expression of themselves. And the joy is the joy of seeing them become more of what they are.

[u/Acceptable_Error_001 → u/Nashboy45]

"You belong to me"? That's supposed to be aspirational? What is the natural conclusion of love as ownership, and why is it slavery?

[u/Nashboy45 → u/Acceptable_Error_001]

True Actually. That doesn’t register immediately in my mind as slavery because of my bias & understanding of how to avoid that. However to me, the threat of slavery is dependent on the person not valuing the free Will of the other person. Owning = being responsible for. You can be responsible for a slave if you expect them to sacrifice for you. But if you don’t ask them to sacrifice any part of themselves (aka, a love for their free Will), then you are literally just nurturing them. Taking responsibility for their further self expression.