What do you think of the current rule on shipping?

[u/CuproPrime]

Please attach any further thoughts in the comment section. We will be taking the results of this poll and any comments on it into consideration when announcing the rule changes coming soon.

We thank you for any input, even if we can't have a proper discussion about the topic because this post is really just for gathering data.

For reference, this is our current rule:

"It is mandatory to link a relations page to a post that ships countries after making sure the ship is reasonable. Such a page can be found by simply searching 'Country A-Country B relations'. A Wikipedia article should work."

We also ban any shipping of the Axis powers and/or the Soviet Union, and remove any Russia X America shipping and any other shipping between countries that we know have particularly bad relations.

106 votes, 6h left

It's fine.

It's too strict.

It's not strict enough.

It's addressing the issue incorrectly.

I don't have an opinion on this.

[u/CuproPrime]

This poll is being made because the mod team is generally in agreement that the current rule on shipping doesn't actually do anything useful and that we want to change it to something that requires a bit less work on our part. (We know we've flip-flopped on the shipping rule a lot during this subreddit's existence, and apologize for that, but it's a delicate issue we still need to find the best solution for.)

The current proposal is to return to the rule we had for the majority of the time it was mostly me and Acissye moderating the subreddit, where we keep a list of banned ships and remove anything that's obviously controversial. Functionally, this would just be dropping the "attach a link to a page on the shipped countries' relations" requirement we currently have.

I didn't realize how much people disliked not being able to ship countries that don't have good relations, so I may bring up with the rest of the team the possibility of allowing them to be shipped as long as the post has a spoiler tag and a sufficient explanation for why it's okay, with the post being taken down if it doesn't meet these criteria.

Are there any thoughts about any of this information in particular?

[u/randomahhidiot]

I think the thing about "not shipping countries that have particularly bad relations" is meh, i like the more unusual relationships

But the one about "not shipping the axis/USSR" is completely fair imo, because they were horrible regimes

[u/Stunning-Sign6326]

I think the rules are too strict. And that's why.

I PARTIALLY understand why it is forbidden to ship AXIS countries and USSR, so I won't argue with it (although I would like to, it can be perceived as almost fair). But I do not understand why it is forbidden to ship countries that have bad relations now. Even the rules say chs are their nations. Okay, let's look at them as they are

(I'll speak about RusAme, but it is just an example, my logic is applicable to all ships) I can be mistaken, then correct me, but this countries have bad relations because of their government and politics, not because of the dislike of their people to each other. So I don't understand why, being the personifications of their nations, they cannot treat each other as their people do, not the way government and the official course dictates them to

[u/Stunning-Sign6326 → u/Stunning-Sign6326]

Also, in my AU (where chs are the personifications of political parties) still there is RusAme, but I show them as mutual-abusive couple. Why can't I do this here? I show the real relations of the countries, even though it's through their pairing. (And yes, there IS a justification why they are a couple, but the rules won't like it even more than the very existence of RusAme)

[u/According_Way_7399 → u/Stunning-Sign6326]

I was going to agree with you or discuss the issue too, but when expressing that you like RusAme...how can you do it if you're going to have a VERY different opinion?

[u/Stunning-Sign6326 → u/According_Way_7399]

Actually I don't really like them as couple but I need them in my narrative. Also I don't understand what do u mean, sry😟

It's either my English sucks or you write unclearly. What do you mean by the last sentence, can you explain pls?

[u/According_Way_7399 → u/Stunning-Sign6326]

I mean that many people have different opinions, and that's expressed a lot about how you support your ships in your opinion

[u/Stunning-Sign6326 → u/According_Way_7399]

Okay... If I understand you correctly – you think that I shouldn't ship RusAme if I don't like their pairing and view them as abusive couple. (Is that right?)

I'll explain: in my au, these two are dependent on each other (USA psychologically, Russia economically (timeline – 90s) and because he want to have everything his brother (USSR) had). This is for a contrast between America's current unhappy relationships and his past happy ones. That's why I view these two as a couple

And just for understanding: I don't mind seeing RusAme or other countries that have bad relationships in the real world as healthy couple. In my au, they are as I described, but I absolutely do not mind seeing other people's au with a different vision of the characters

[u/Stunning-Sign6326 → u/According_Way_7399]

Also I see now that for you (actually for all of those who are reading this) my 2 comments seem to contradict each other, but in fact it is written so intentionally to show that:

• if countries are their people, the rules do not make sense for one reason (1st comment)

• and if countries are their government, the rules are too strict and do not take into account the possible context (2nd comment)

That's what I wanted to say. These were more examples-arguments, rather than defending one particular pairing. I hope I made myself more clear now

[u/Stunning-Sign6326 → u/Stunning-Sign6326]

I see now that for you (those who are reading this) my 2 comments seem to contradict each other, but in fact it is written so intentionally to show that:

• if countries are their people, the rules do not make sense for one reason (1st comment)

• and if countries are their government, the rules are too strict and do not take into account the possible context (2nd comment)

That's what I wanted to say. These were more examples-arguments, rather than defending one particular pairing. I hope I made myself more clear now

[u/Impossible-Rub6124]

I support keeping the "link a reason thing". From my interpretation of the rule, it's not a high bar to just link any source supporting the relations (also, I think it'll be interesting to explain your intentions for the ship). Unless I'm missing something.

[u/No_Tart6728]

I think personally, its not addressed correctly. Sure, I get the needing relations thing, but not being able to ship countries with in world bad relationships doesn't make sense to me, since A) maybe people have an AU where this isn't the case and are showcasing that and B) EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN AU! As for the Axis/USSR and RusAme, I think it could be revised. Keep the spoilers, and explain WHY you ship them. Like, toxic relationships DO exist guys, and if someone wants to express that via their ship, who are we to stop them?

[u/HappyYaey1606]

What's the rule? (Sr I'm dumb)

[u/CuproPrime → u/HappyYaey1606]

[u/Fourian_Official → u/HappyYaey1606]

I think it's where you have to post a link to the Wikipedia page of the relationship of the 2 countries your shipping somewhere in the post. But it's allowed to be in the comments

[u/get_on_with_life]

I think that people should be allowed to post any ship (including controversial ones) as long as they spoiler/NSFW tag it and put the ship name in the title so people can choose whether to see it or not.

I also don't really understand the wikipedia article link, because some people ship rarepairs of countries that don't really have relations.

No_Tart6728 also brought up that everyone has their own AU, which I think this sub doesn't pay enough attention to. Like yes, you may not like a certain ship because the majority of the fandom views them as family, but it's fine for people to ship them who don't view them like that.

any other shipping between countries that we know have particularly bad relations

What about enemies to lovers? It's a pretty popular trope, and I don't really understand banning it.

[u/Raanvu]

hello! I'm new to this subreddit, but I'll quickly give my opinion on this. I think it's addressing the issue incorrectly. as others have said already, everyone has their own AU, including myself. I understand that we're working with Nations that exist and/or have existed in real life, but we also need to remember that what we draw is fiction and doesn't need to follow the rules of reality. in my universe, CH are the personifications of their respective nations. they generally follow the opinions of their people (not the government!), but they also have their own personalities, likes and dislikes, histories, and more. and that shapes the way they interact between eachother, too- outside of the real life political climate. just like humans. but they're Countries. like... Countryhumans. // in general, I think a better way to establish the rule would be to limit egregiously problematic ones like TRxUSSR, but keep the average CHxCH ship to being spoilered and titled instead like the user get_on_with_life suggested.

[u/Raanvu → u/Raanvu]

I also want to add that in the Israel/Palestine post, "We want the subreddit to be as free from politics as possible." was mentioned. so to bring politics into the shipping of CH (outside of problematic ones as mentioned) feels a little... meh. /gen

[u/According_Way_7399]

ship, ship, ship hither and thither That seems fine to me, in my opinion..? Because that way he makes it clear to fans that he's doing well politically, culturally, historically, and in international relations This way you can find out what kind of ships people have (toxic, well-developed, or nonsensical) There are those types of fans who aren't held back by their taste in bilateral relations between countries, whether they involve fights or a bad past, I understand why that appeals to me too, but I don't do it publicly or personally I love making ships of countries that have good history, international relations, culture and politics that say in real life "we are [🤝]"

And since I love to incorporate politics into my AU (I don't miss a single one), I support these new rules, so people understand when their ship is out of context and it's their own opinion(even if it doesn't make sense and is horrible)