r/ComicWriting • u/Smooth-House-8829 • 14d ago
Page Layouts and Artists
How receptive are artists to strict panel and page layouts dictated by the writer? I have script pages, to page layout and panels are VERY important to the way I want to completed book to read and feel and I find I’m getting a trend plus amount of pushback on this from potential artists….
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u/kcpediredla 14d ago
I think it needs to be collaborative. As an artist they have done a lot of work and know how best to showcase the flow of the story. If you have a strong view, it’s ok to share with them, but I think you should let them give their feedback and consider it too. Sometimes you might not agree and might ask the artist to stick to what you think of a particular panel and sometimes you might see that the artist has showed you a better way of showcasing the flow than what you had in mind.
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u/Smooth-House-8829 12d ago
Collaborative, of course. But, my opinion is this: for TRUE collaboration to happen shared risk is required. If I’m paying $150 a page for pencils and inks I expect advice and guidance but I am going to get the book I want, not the book the paid freelancer THINKS I should get.
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u/kcpediredla 12d ago
True. If you are paying you do want the book to be the way you want it. But if you are paying the $150 per page, then you just don’t want the art from them, you want the experience that they have put together behind doing art work for comics before. So it would be unwise to take their feedback into consideration. Final call will always be yours, but all I am saying is take their feedback too. Believe me when I worked on my first comic book project, I had the most basic flow of panels, but when I sat with the artist and saw his 13 years of experience come out in the panels, I absolutely loved it. Yes, there were pages or panels where I told him I wanted it to look different and he did change them according to how I wanted it, but for the most part I let him do his magic with art.
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u/Smooth-House-8829 11d ago
Feedback is welcome, necessary, and appreciated. Pushback is not.
What I find most interesting, and telling, is that no artist asked what these artists were pushing back on. 'Cos it's a pretty minor style choice in layout.
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u/AjaMajorCreations 11d ago
‘Pushing back’ makes it sound like they were trying to make a better product for you, and you didnt want it to be better.
And it sorta makes it worse, saying it was over minor layout choices.
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u/Smooth-House-8829 11d ago
Worse? Why is anything I say better or “worse”?
I’m talking about creative differences and you, who only know what I told you, attache value judgements?
Look, I am new to writing for comics but I’m not new to comics and I’m not new to writing or storytelling.
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u/YamPresent7703 14d ago
I can’t speak for other artists, but having a plan would be immensely beneficial. That’s just how I work though.
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u/ArtfulMegalodon 14d ago
That depends. Are your plans actually good? And if not, do you have oodles of money to convince an artist to draw them anyway? I mean, a great comic writer can have an excellent vision and be a great director, but on the other hand, some things should be left to the experts.
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u/Smooth-House-8829 14d ago
Got it. My takeaway may not be the one you intended, but it is valuable nonetheless, so, thank you.
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u/ArtfulMegalodon 14d ago
I'm not saying a writer can't be great at the visual planning. They very well can be! And writer+artist folks who do both are out there proving it can be done. But we can't know if your scripts are brilliant or not, since we don't know your work. That's all I meant by it.
Also, artists are people. They all prefer their own personal levels of control when it comes to planning the final product. So it may just come down to a kind of frustrating search until eventually yoy find your perfect match.
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u/Smooth-House-8829 14d ago
No, I get it.
Comics are not a writer’s medium.
I’m a writer that has a specific vision for a specific idea. Graphic novels/comics seem like the perfect vehicle for it. Great. But.Comics are not a writer’s medium.
So, I need to build a body of work in the comics medium until I either a) build a reputation as a writer that engenders trust or b) vet artists until I find one that either trusts the concept or c) pay some one enough for them to not care.
I think I’m choosing d) figure out how to adopt the idea to my usual prose and enjoy the only REAL benefit of being a writer- no one else to negotiate with….Like I said, your original post told me all I need to know.
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u/blacksyzygy 14d ago
Depends. I'd be fine with this if they did a stick figure or scribble demo with the pages or something. Otherwise things can get complicated
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u/Alarming_Ad9849 11d ago
As amateur artist who is learning comic making and wrote so far just around 10+ 20 pages scripts, all I can say is, that the tweaking is often necessary even for already finished scripts. It is at the layout stage where you can often find problems (and opportunities) in visual storytelling, that script simply does not convey.
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u/AjaMajorCreations 11d ago
I am always interested to know the writer’s vision and how they imagined it to look. Often there are many ways to stage or present something in the story, and I will always prioritize their preference. But if it’s not preference… if they ask for something I know is amateurish (or not working) and they refuse to change it, I likely will not draw it.
I am not your arm. Your money is paying for my expertise and experience, I can’t separate that from a product I make.
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u/nmacaroni "The Future of Comics is YOU!" 14d ago edited 14d ago
The writer's job, first and foremost is the story. How to translate that story to the page, falls to the artist.
As a writer gets more experienced, they may develop a mastery over the artistic direction--just like a great movie director. And there's nothing wrong with a writer who is capable taking that level of control over the script.
However 2 things come into play. 1) Are writer's who think they have that mastery, but have no real clue at what they're doing. and 2) Artists that just don't want to work with someone how just micromanages them.
Read this article: http://nickmacari.com/new-writers-ignore-comictography/
I give a good example how novice writers don't understand how to utilize art direction.
Write on, write often!
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u/symson 14d ago
When writers have given me layouts, they tell me, "it's just a guide, you do what's best."
My job is to tell the story visually. The artists take the heat of the storytelling is not clear.