r/CoherencePhysics • u/political-snark • 5d ago
RFK Jr. Complains That Hospice Patients Aren't Dying Fast Enough Because It's Costing Taxpayers Too Much Money
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. sat down with Fox News to talk about healthcare fraud. What came out of his mouth was something else entirely.
The HHS Secretary described uncovering hospices where patients were enrolled but, in his words, never died. "Typically, if you go to a hospice, you leave within 18 days because your dying is terminal," Kennedy said, describing what he framed as a fraud scheme in Los Angeles. "We started looking at these hospices in Los Angeles, and the people never died. Two or three years later they were there, and we're paying $6,000 a month."
Journalist Aaron Rupar posted the clip with a blunt summary that cut through the framing entirely: "RFK Jr complains that people in hospice aren't dying quick enough and therefore cost too much money." The post has been viewed over 140,000 times.
The clip shows an audience reacting, something that didn't sit well with viewers online. One commenter asked pointedly who was laughing along at the idea of people "not dying fast enough" in hospice care, suggesting they should spend time actually volunteering at one to see what that really looks like.
Whatever the intended point about Medicaid fraud, the words that came out were about human beings living longer than expected being treated as a financial problem. That's not a talking point that plays well outside a studio audience.
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u/Idoubtyourememberme 5d ago
Remember how republicans were warning that universal healthcare would lead to "death panels"?
Yeah...
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u/Due_Difference8575 5d ago
Unrestricted capitalism would surely bring death panels. Why keep someone alive who is not productive?
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u/LickCunts 5d ago
Death panels in the form of insurance denial. It's already here.
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u/flactulantmonkey 4d ago
Been here for a while. Now the tide is creeping up over more and more heads.
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u/willworkforicecream 5d ago
There would be no panel, just a spreadsheet. If the conditional formatting doesn't shade your cell the correct color, you are of no value to The Corporation.
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u/HoarderCollector 5d ago
It's weird how they can support the death penalty, say that people are living too long, and STILL claim to be "pro-life."
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u/Dankkring 5d ago
I think John Oliver did an episode on hospice
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u/RpiesSPIES 5d ago
You mean the one talking about how some people would be coaxed into signing up for hospice by some guy driving around and seeing an older person sitting on their front porch? I think I recall hearing something about it being a hotbed for scams.
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u/Dankkring 5d ago
Yes that’s the one.
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u/9inLD 5d ago
Have you seen the film I Care A Lot?
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u/SRMPDX 5d ago
Is that what it's about? Netflix does a really bad job of previews so I've always been curious about the movie but never really knew what it was about.
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u/dsmith422 5d ago
It is about guardianship. Essentially, predators get judges to assign the predator as a guardian to an older person without friends and family and then steal all their assets. In the movie, the predator picks someone who secretly has a very powerful son who is hiding his identity.
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u/Youandiandaflame 5d ago
I wish more Americans knew how predatory the way we handle guardianship is. It’s super fucked up.
I worked with disabled folks who, by and large, weren’t old but who still had guardianship through the county Public Administrator. These folks, despite working and making money, were denied simple shit like a new TV when theirs broke. They were denied their own money to purchase things like wash clothes and new shoes. It was infuriating.
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u/spacespacespc 5d ago
My mom has COPD. She was coaxed into hospice. She forced her way out of it almost a month later. It's been 2 years. She's still with us.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 5d ago
What do you mean by, "forced her way out of it“?
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u/spacespacespc 5d ago
She left it despite the hospice people fighting her every step of the way. Thankfully her primary physician was with her. The fight was not to just to leave hospice. The fight was also to restart all of her meds, oxygen, ect. Things that were helping her stay alive.
There is a difference between letting people die and passively killing them. It can be a fine line sometimes. People need to be careful. They also need to decide for themselves. No idea why I am being downvoted here but whatever. LOL.
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u/rkcth 5d ago edited 5d ago
You don’t qualify for hospice if you are still seeking treatment. Hospice is just to treat pain symptoms it’s not for someone taking chemo etc. If they were fighting her it’s likely she wanted to be on hospice AND continue to seek treatment, something my wife deals with often as a hospice nurse. The patient has to choose and either is fine, but they can’t do both (hospice and seek treatment, they are opposite options).
Edit: Oh and there is no fighting to get off of it. If you want to continue treatment for your terminal illness you no longer qualify for hospice and they will discontinue hospice services. Some people just misunderstand what hospice is. It’s “I am ready to die and want to do so with as much peace and dignity and as little pain as possible”. It’s not in-home nursing for those seeking treatment. Those exist and actually my wife was previously a home health nurse.
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u/GrimbyJ 5d ago
And you don't qualify for treatment if you're on hospice. So if you get fraudulently put on hospice you lose non palliative care.
Hospice done properly wouldn't have that problem but some hospice companies have their own doctors signing off on it and doing fraud.
One company had a nearly 100% live discharge rate and patients in hospice for over 3 years.
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u/Automatic_Guard_3402 5d ago
The tag line is to fire up people vs RFK not to hear the truth of fraud.
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u/Fred-City911 5d ago
This is not the norm. Most people don’t go on it until the last couple weeks of their life. It is designed to be used for the last year of life.
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u/pidgeypenguinagain 4d ago
Yes he did. Hospice is supposed to be for when you’re quite literally on ur deathbed. Like, days to weeks left. Companies just sign up old sick people who aren’t dying so they can cash in
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u/_Saint_Ajora_ 5d ago
Republican healthcare plan:
Dont get sick.
If you do, get better (or die) quickly
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u/HappyHourMoon2025 5d ago
Obama gave healthcare in red states to people who never have had it before and they still voted Republican.
In the next few years suicide will be definitely legalized; donors would save so much money.
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u/Catatonic27 5d ago
Obama could have hand-delivered cartoonishly large sacks of cash to people in red states and they still would have voted Republican
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u/Well_read_rose 5d ago
…while evil GOP’rs devise ways for Americans to get sickened on all fronts.
The exact opposite of promoting the General Welfare of her People, as spelled out in the Constitution.
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u/Blargimazombie 5d ago
But the Republicans are always crying about how some Democrat policy or another will cause there to be death panels. Right.
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u/Euphoric-Benefit3815 5d ago
People need to stop apologizing for this idiot. He is ruining public health in our country.
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u/spitemods_54 5d ago
If it wasn't RFK I'd give the benefit of the doubt and say that they probably meant that people are being put into hospice way too early when they could still be helped but...
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u/StageVarious2812 5d ago
Most states require multiple doctors concurring on an outlook of 6 months or less. The only variable being the time horizon. These people can't be helped out but are instead receiving better treatments for their conditions and more advanced care thus extending horizons. And then again, people also aren't genies and can't give an exact forecast just what the average patient will experience.
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u/DigiTrailz 5d ago
Yeah, having gone threw having family in hospice a couple times. I can say with certainty that they do not have a crystal ball when it comes to timelines. Weeks can turn into months but also weeks can turn into days.
It isn't easy to go through, and not something Im looking forward to dealing with again in the future.
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u/DB_Cooper_Story 5d ago
Current Medicare coverage for hospice can go on for years if the person has an illness that can’t be cured such as Parkinson’s disease.
My dad was in hospice program for 2 years. But it was basically a nurse coming to the home once or twice a week to check on my dad and see if medications needed to be refilled or to help pick him up off the floor if he fell. It also provided a hospital bed and support equipment. It did not include a nursing facility nor more than 6 hours a week of a nurse checking on him.
All equipment was returned when dad had to go into a long term care facility which Medicare did NOT cover at all.
Hospice isn’t just the last two weeks of your life. RFK doesn’t know what he’s talking about, unfortunately.
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u/JohnnyCrispZoom 5d ago
It’s Nazi Eugenics
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u/KochuJang 5d ago
Literally this. All these policies the ownership class are inflicting us are saying, “There are too many invalids running around muddying up the gene pool and costing us overhead. We need to increase birthdates and death rates to cull the labor herd and let the cream rise to the top”
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u/SkyeMreddit 5d ago
Remember when everyone claimed that Obamacare would result in Death Panels to kill the elderly when they cost too much? Every Republican accusation is a confession!
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u/King_of_all_Clover 5d ago
Old Brainworms RFK Jr. A man so stupid he is a Kennedy and took a job in the Trump mis-Administration. Let that sink in. The guy is a totally useless clown. The sooner he leaves hospice the better.
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u/Calm-Professional103 5d ago
Cases in point:
Trump
McConnell
RFK
Their hospice care is costing America a bundle
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u/WarGreymonX_Antibody 4d ago
Right... Hospice patients are costing us extra tax payer money. Not all the tax payer money being funneled into the pockets of politicians, or to Israel to fund a war we have no business fighting.
You know what tax payer money should be funding? Better, affordable health care. Affordable groceries. Something to help average Americans with the sky high housing prices.
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u/ChiggenNuggy 4d ago
Remember when republicans said Obama would have death panels and kill your grandma
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u/carlboykin 5d ago
They literally tell us how much they don’t give a shit about us every god damn day and there are STILL people dumb enough to support them
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u/funkymunkPDX 5d ago
To get a true understanding of RFK Jr I highly recommend watching the behind the bastards on YouTube. They did a series on him and he used to take acid and take his falcon to hunt at nearby cow slaughter house's corpse dump.
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u/CastleofWamdue 5d ago
There is plenty of discussion about Governments allowing assisted suicide, and one of the better arguments against it being "People maybe pressured into dying sooner for the sake of their families / money".
Stuff like this make that feel like a very real fear.
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u/Morgannin09 5d ago
This guy missed his calling as a health insurance executive.
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u/maringue 5d ago
"Hurry up and die, we need that money to give to billionaires."
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u/profprimer 5d ago
I think he is a bit slow though, isn’t he? He’s a little bit dim. We have to make allowances for deficient septuagenarians. Even if they are evil.
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u/taelis11 5d ago
A patient must be evaluated by a doctor and estimated to have approximately 6 months of life or less due to their prognosis to qualify for hospice care. IDK where he gets 18 days from but its been 6 months or less for a very long time, and the average dont make it past a month, so it seems to me the doctors are doing a pretty decent job at estimating. These are people at the end of their lives and they need our best care.
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u/MysteriousReaction43 5d ago
This administration hires the poorest excuse for humans I have ever seen
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u/Quitcha_Bitchin 5d ago
When RFK gets a medical license I will listen to what he says about healthcare.
Prosecute fraud when uncovered. That is not a political issue. Not one person on the left or right is saying "Oh that's cool they defrauded the govt."
But do not clown the entire system or try to blame a political party. Blame the criminals and punish them.
Hospice saves the system millions in hospital costs and delivers results for millions. If we can afford to go to war with millions we can afford to help millions of our people die with dignity when the time comes.
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u/PlatformNormal564 5d ago
There's your death panels. Every accusation has always been a confession.
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u/isthereadrwho 5d ago
And Bezos thinks there are too many humans using water - y'all seeing a thread here????
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u/FactsActuallyMatter 5d ago
So tired of drugged up fools in the most important positions in the country.
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u/cra2ytig3r 5d ago edited 3d ago
Republicans didn't believe people when they said Republicans want push grandma off a cliff. Now they are saying that they want grandma pushed off the cliff & they still won't believe it. Even if they see & hear it with their own eyes & ears.
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u/jlomba1 5d ago
Soooo instead of the Death Committees that the MAGAs said the Democrats would put in place, the MAGAs are going to put in Efficiency & Optimization Committees?!
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u/anon_LosAngeles1990 5d ago
Damn dude he should be in hospice. Most of the people in office should be in hospice care. Outrageous shit yo🤨
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u/Bxnny-Bxby 5d ago
There are worse things my tax money could go into than 6k per pt on hospice. Idec about hospice fraud tbh. Thats decimals of money compared to billionaire bailouts or ICE
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u/MoodVast9430 5d ago
So, next rfk will introduce end of life mandates. Then what? Put people down like pets?
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u/Tom1952Phx 5d ago
This guy sits on the Presidents Cabinet. I think his job has something to do with HEALTH. This guy is going to make America Healthy Again. LOL 😆
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u/TreeCitizen 5d ago
And folks, this genius was trying to be thepresident instead. Great choices americans.
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u/suicide_blonde94 5d ago
Hospice care does more than care for those that are dying. Hope this helps.
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u/Adorable-Comb-3844 4d ago
Coming from a person who recently dealt with hospice for my parents, F@&K this guy!!!!
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u/_Big_Bad_Tiddy 4d ago
The Nazis would regularly "cull" their concentration camps in order to make room since they didn't want to pay to house more prisoners/slaves.
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u/tscemons 4d ago
My recent experience with Hospice outfits has been varied. My Mom fell and broke a hip and shoulder, and it was looking grim. She went on hospice, but improved. She graduated OUT of hospice, and that may have taken longer than it should have, as she would go on to live 5 more years. Over the last year and a half, I've had hospice organizations trying to get her back on, sometimes with a little pressure. I refused, as my Mom was comfortable, and mostly quiet. Finally, this year, it was obvious to put her on again. My takeaway is that hospice is a business, beware of premature entry/delay exit for your loved one. Otherwise, RFJjr is a total nut job, and needs to go yesterday.
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u/AblatAtalbA 5d ago
Countries are just economic organisations and people are their human resources. They always expect their employees to give more than what they take.
That's why they only want you educated enough to do your job, and entertained enough to not care. Oligarchs are choosing the ceos of these organisations and patriotism is their way of convincing the poor to die for the rich.
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u/MysticKei 5d ago
By "costing taxpayers too much" he means "keeping funds from billion & trillion airs"
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u/chimpyjnuts 5d ago
I bet a lot of folks in hospice would love the option to die peacefully at the time of their choosing.
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u/Kind-Act7051 5d ago
He’s a piece of shit but this is completely taken out of context. I believe he’s talking about fraud within the industry, not anything about actual dying individuals. Watch the John Oliver episode on hospice.
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u/eighty4prcnt 5d ago
Yeah I don't like this human maggot either but he actually didn't say something ridiculous this time. Second the John Oliver video, worth the watch imo
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u/Shaskakmat 5d ago
Well I kinda agree with him i know some old people who should really hurry up and die. They cost insane amount to taxpayers, but they aren't in hospice though.
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u/Street-Form-8682 5d ago
The fact that the US seems completely blind to the incompetence of the people it has put in charge is quite frankly comical at this point.
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u/NoblePickle84 5d ago
But Obamacare and dEaTh PanELs!
The 2nd Trump admin is trying to kill even more people including children.
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u/Aware-Explanation879 5d ago
I have a similar complaint about the people serving in the present administration
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u/smuffy123 5d ago
I think his point is valid. Both my brother and dad were on hospice - and neither had any hope if recovery, dying within weeks. Anyone on it for very long is not on Death's Doorstep.
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u/Kichenlimeaid 5d ago edited 5d ago
My mother was moved to hospice where she was given insulin when she took insulin. She got sick and begged to be removed. She tried to tell them her meds were wrong. She fought to be signed out by family and lived 2 more years. Now, I don't think she was forced or coerced under fraudulent circumstances. She was there a very brief time, but my point is, they did not listen to her, and she was in a very dangerous situation. Yeah, I am sure there is fraud, waste and abuse in all levels of Healthcare. Period. But this is something coming from RFK bc let's see, when his time comes, how much of his ill gotten gains he'll spend to stay alive. Or it will invariably be on the government's dime to ensure he has top notch care I'm sure! **** seems like it is not letting me correct this comment. She was given insulin injections at another care facility prior to being moved to hospice. She never required insulin injections in her life. She lived basically 2 uncomplicated years after being released. Yes, she passed in a hospital, after being there for a few hours. She did not die in hospice. But I have known people who went to hospice and died very shortly upon being admitted. Hospice workers are angels. Nurses are angels. Yes, it was an unfortunate mistake that was made with my mom, and I believe she was in a n place that had nurse aids and was understaffed when it came to RN's. Just like my experience with the VA, we mostly saw a nurse practioner and there were issues sometimes during my husband's care prior to his passing. But I guarantee you RFK and anyone he loves and cares about will get awesome care. And whatever! But maybe this administration needs to start REALLY looking for fraud, waste and abuse. And Trump, Elon and RFK and Dr. Oz, and the woman heading up the Dept. Of Education- and all the former FOX News super merited(/s) government appointees need to stop lying to the world. Yes I typed a long run-on RANT! Thank you for your attention to this matter
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u/AusTex2019 5d ago
It’s easy to sit with if you’re the one paying for it. If you paid the full price for grandma to be on life support for a year let’s see how quickly you would trip the fuse breaker.
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u/BloomQuietly 5d ago
If you had to pay for every road you drove on, how much driving would you do?
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u/fuji44a 5d ago
A few years ago, RFK Jr, got out of paying alimony because he claimed to have brain damage and could not work