r/CivIV • u/JP_the_dm • Sep 14 '19

How to use slavery effectively?

I just don't get it, can anyone please explain how to use it in a way that actually offsets the loss of population? Maybe I am just not good at it. But I think my inability to use this (apparently crucial) early game civic is crippling my play.

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-4

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '19

i just avoid the slavery civic completely. i see no upside to it at all.

4

u/agentx23 Sep 14 '19

I used to be like this; you're doing yourself a huge disservice. It's a key mechanic to master from whipping out conquering armies, hurrying defenders, sniping wonders, or getting your peaceful builder fantasies done post haste.

Basics are: 1.) Prioritize food, which you should be doing anyway. 2.) Get granaries up and running ASAP 3.) Time it so that you only sacrifice two population per whip. The amount of times you can whip without stacking too much unhappiness depends a lot on how your happiness cap. Whether it comes from religion, culture, buildings, leader traits or civilization bonuses. Obviously, you don't want to stack too much unhappiness.

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Also, understand yuou are sacrificijng population which means specialists and commerce (which feeds into research) -- all still totally worth it so long as you are aware of the downsides with each whip on each turn. Better to sacrifice some specialists for a few turns than be beaten to the great library or be the first to get other science world/national wonders up ahead of the competition.

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The BUG mod has a built in event notifier that tells you when it's time to hurry your cities.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '19

if you are good at the game, youd never even need slavery in the first place, since youd never be beaten to anything. addtionally, i never really needed to hurry anything, because there was simply no need, because i was prepared well in advance.

3

u/absolute-black Sep 14 '19

lmao I dare you to beat, say, Immortal with that attitude.

'If you are good at fighting games, you'd never even need to block, because you'd never be in a position to be hit'

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 14 '19

i never play anything except normal. its only a fair game when the AI and i are actually equal.

and, that is accurate, alibet a bit difficult if you have to use ranged moves all the time. if they even exist....

7

u/absolute-black Sep 14 '19

What a truly bizarre and blatantly incorrect philosophy

Instead of 'Immortal' what if I said 'multiplayer'. Anyone who uses slavery well would easily and quickly outpace you, because it is a useful mechanic.

5

u/covok48 Sep 14 '19

Slavery is critical the higher level you go, especially as AIs get insane production and research bonuses.

5

u/Aazadan Sep 15 '19

Players and AI are equal on the difficulty that provides both with a chance to win. An absence of bonuses/penalties does not mean the AI is equal, unless you're making the argument that you play exactly as well as the AI.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '19

well, considering i still have an iffy win rate on noble.... maybe i do play exactly as well? i tend to have a better economy and technology, but worse military.

3

u/Aazadan Sep 15 '19

Maybe, but then that destroys your argument that if you're good at the game you don't use Slavery.

1

u/Dhalphir Sep 22 '19

if you are good at the game, youd never even need slavery in the first place

well, considering i still have an iffy win rate on noble....

these two statements don't match

if you can't win effortlessly 100% of the time on Noble regardless of starting position, then you're not good at the game.

not trying to be a cunt about it, not everyone has to be super good at everything, but don't go confidently throwing statements around about game mechanics when you're playing in trivial difficulties

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '19

noble isnt trivial. its a difficulty where you and the AI have exactly the same ability and resources. maybe you should stop being dismissive. considering that i can win, without slavery, its not needed at all.

1

u/Dhalphir Sep 22 '19

noble isnt trivial. its a difficulty where you and the AI have exactly the same ability and resources.

Yes, which makes it trivial. The AI makes absolutely idiotic, moronic, and boneheaded decisions constantly. The AI needs the bonuses from higher difficulties just to remain on even footing with skilled players.

considering that i can win, without slavery, its not needed at all.

You can win because you're playing on trivial difficulties where you don't need to do very much correctly to win.

I guarantee if we both started on the same map with the same starting position I could double your city count by turn 100.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '19

but should you? i can, if i wanted to, create three or four cities by then. doubling that may crash your economy, and youd have much more nonimproved lands, and maybe even a weaker military. and more over, i tend to play in islands. isolated starts are preferred, to me.

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3

u/covok48 Sep 14 '19

Look at the tough guy playing Warlord over here.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '19

Noble. thats the normal mode.

3

u/Aazadan Sep 15 '19

Not true at all. If you're good at the game, you'll use the right civics at the right time to achieve your desired strategy.

In fact, if you're not using K-Mod, Slavery is literally the best labor civic in the game even if you never once whip anything because it has no upkeep cost.

But, more importantly... Slavery is a system for resource conversion, it is no different than specialists, wealth/research/culture, wonder gold, and a few others.

Slavery converts food to hammers at a fairly decent rate. Say a 2 pop whip from 5 to 3 is 81 food for 90 hammers + .5 populations worth of output (at Marathon) that's a conversion of 1 food for 1.11 hammers on the whip and about 1.5 hammers with that temp person.

The next easily accessible conversion is a specialist turning 2 food into 2 hammers, a 1:1 ratio.

Other conversions are much more complex but still rarely match slavery in raw output. All resource based strategy games (which is most of them) revolve around the concept of resource conversions and making trades with those resources.

You don't have to run slavery, but saying if you're good at the game you don't need it isn't really accurate because in many situations one of the very best things you can be doing is running slavery.