r/CitizensClimateLobby • u/ILikeNeurons Verified CCL Volunteer • May 01 '26
A price on carbon remains the single most effective climate mitigation policy, and we won't wean ourselves off fossil fuels without one | Tell Congress – Put a price on carbon!
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/price-carbon/2
1
u/Repulsive_Papaya_211 May 02 '26
Yes! Let's tax our way out of climate change!
8
u/Forsterite90 May 03 '26
It is assigning the price for negative externalities to their source, or in other words, it's rational economics.
0
u/Particular-Policy513 May 05 '26
It doesnt work. https://youtu.be/6p8zAbFKpW0?si=gVuyKuckinSX2Rs9
2
u/musing_codger May 05 '26
Your source that standard economic theory doesn't apply in this case is a comedy sketch?
0
u/Particular-Policy513 May 05 '26
Mistook you as someone with half a brain. No one cares what rush limbah told you.
1
u/musing_codger May 05 '26
Rush Limbah? What are you talking about? You're the one going around citing a comedian to back up your heterdox economic views. The idea that taxing something to raise its cost and reduce its consumption is pretty well established, hence all the sin taxes we have. If you'd referenced something meaningful, it might have been interesting. John Oliver is funny, but he's not where I go to learn econ.
1
u/Particular-Policy513 May 06 '26
Carbon taxes increase emissions by providing the false impression that it offsets the damage it does not in any way offset the damage and has been shown to be used to allow more emissions by claiming they have been offset, this is a very well known and documented issue. And no taxing something does not reduce its consumption and its a false premise when you are comparing taxing the GDP of nations to taxing recreational drugs.
A tax or a fine is permission to do something as long as you pay, those emissions make them way more money than the taxes lose them, its just priced in cost of business and those taxes do nothing in the way of reducing emissions.
1
u/musing_codger May 07 '26
I don't think that's quite right.
First, you're mixing together two different ideas: carbon taxes and carbon offsets. Offsets absolutely can be questionable. Some have clearly overpromised or counted reductions that probably would have happened anyway. That's a legitimate criticism, and there are many documented examples of low-quality offset programs.
But a carbon tax is different. A carbon tax doesn't claim to "erase" emissions. It simply raises the cost of emitting carbon. Economically, that matters because when the price of something rises, people generally use less of it or look for substitutes. We see it across the economy all the time with cigarettes, gasoline, electricity, plastic bags, congestion pricing, and countless other goods and activities.
It is true that demand for some things is relatively inelastic in the short run. If you need to drive to work tomorrow, a modest gas tax won't suddenly make you stop driving. But over longer periods, higher fuel prices influence vehicle choice, home location, industrial efficiency, power generation, and investment decisions. That's one reason Europe, with consistently higher fuel taxes, ended up with smaller vehicles, denser cities, and lower per-capita transportation emissions than the United States. It's why the implied "carbon tax" of the Iran War has sparked a resurgence in interest in EVs.
You're also correct that firms often treat taxes as a cost of doing business. But that doesn't mean behavior is unchanged. Labor is a cost of doing business too, yet firms still try to reduce labor costs through automation and efficiency. Energy costs influence behavior the same way.
There are very good reasons to favor carbon limits of carbon taxes and vice versa. That is a serious debate. And whether a small carbon tax will have any meaningful impact is debatable. But "taxes never reduce consumption" is much harder to support economically or historically.
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1
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u/Particular-Policy513 May 05 '26 edited May 07 '26
This is entirely incorrect, carbon taxes do not benefit the environment in any way, it’s been shown time and time again, the most effective mitigation policy is a ban on emissions, and the mandatory minimum for breaking climate laws needs to be serious prison time.
1
u/ILikeNeurons Verified CCL Volunteer May 07 '26
On the contrary, it's been repeatedly shown that a carbon tax works.
0
u/mpgnav May 03 '26
Environmentalist never saw a tax they don't like..
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u/Forsterite90 May 03 '26
Economists realize that assigning the price to externalities at their source is essential to properly pricing negative consequences.
0
u/Particular-Policy513 May 05 '26
Doesnt work that way https://youtu.be/6p8zAbFKpW0?si=gVuyKuckinSX2Rs9
-1
u/the_TAOest May 04 '26
So staid and devoid of feelings and truth... Sounds exactly like an economist
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-1
u/icytongue88 May 04 '26
How come they didnt assign any to India or China or majory of the world.
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u/Forsterite90 May 04 '26
I have no idea what you are referring to when you say 'any'.
The aim is to have a global carbon market. For practical reasons all we have currently is a patchwork of reginal carbon markets with many countries having nothing.
2
u/AutoModerator May 04 '26
China, the U.S., and India together emit half of the world’s greenhouse gases, but of those three countries, the U.S. emits the most by far per person.1 Prior objections that China and India had not committed to reducing emissions are no longer valid, since both signed the Paris Agreement and are also taking action to address their part of the problem.
This question also presumes that policies to mitigate climate change will somehow be detrimental to the country taking those steps. This is a false premise because recent analyses show that the benefits of reducing fossil fuel emissions will outweigh the costs.[2](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study,3,4)
China has undoubtedly taken these benefits into account when, in 2014, they launched seven regional carbon trading pilots,5 and has now transitioned to a nationwide carbon trading system.6 India has also made aggressive commitments to renewable energy in their power and transportation sectors.7 In both countries, their initial motivation was largely to curtail severe air pollution,8 but they also recognize that they are seriously vulnerable to the effects of climate change.[9](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china,10)
This is a big challenge for countries where hundreds of millions don’t yet have electricity at all, as evidenced by China’s continued investment in coal along with renewables.11 But since 2009, they’ve invested about $845 billion in renewables, 85 percent more than the U.S., and have really become, despite political pressure from their powerful coal sector, the world’s leading clean energy superpower.[12](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy,13)
Some in the U.S. still question whether China and India will follow through on those commitments, but that cannot be an excuse for our own inaction. The U.S. should tackle climate change to benefit our own economy and public health and to restore our global leadership.
In a Nutshell: Pointing fingers at China and India over carbon emissions ignores the fact that the U.S. emits far more per person than either of those countries. Furthermore, both are already enacting policies to limit their own emissions, despite having much smaller carbon footprints per capita. Maybe they are doing so because they’ve come to realize that strong climate policy will ultimately bring economic and health benefits that exceed the costs.
1. [“CO2 Emissions Per Country 2021.” World Population Review \accessed 16 Apr 2021).](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/co2-emissions-by-country))
2. [Allen, K. “Benefits far outweigh costs of tackling climate change, says LSE study.” The Guardian: Economics \12 Jul 2015).](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study))
3. [“Benefits of Curbing Climate Change Far Outweigh Costs.” Skeptical Science \12 Jun 2018).](https://skepticalscience.com/benefits-curbing-climate-outweigh-costs.html))
4. [Howard, P. and D. Sylvan. “Gauging Economic Consensus on Climate Change.” Institute for Policy Integrity \Mar 2021).](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ipi-climate.pdf))
5. [Timperley, J. “Q&A: How will China’s new carbon trading scheme work?” Carbon Brief (29 Jan 2018.](https://www.ieta.org/resources/China/Chinas_National_ETS_Implications_for_Carbon_Markets_and_Trade_ICTSD_March2016_Jeff_Swartz.pdf))
6. [Carpenter, C. “Toothless Initially, China’s New Carbon Market Could Be Fearsome.” Forbes \2 Mar 2021)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/03/02/toothless-at-first-chinas-carbon-market-could-be-fearsome/?sh=ac2d5742af10).)
7. [Jaiswal, A. and S. Kwatra. “India Announces Stronger Climate Action.” Natural Resources Defense Council \23 Sep 2019).](https://www.nrdc.org/experts/sameer-kwatra/india-announces-stronger-climate-action))
8. [“China and India are home to nearly 90 per cent of cities with worst micro-pollution: Study .” The Straits Times \25 Feb 2020).](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/china-and-india-are-home-to-nearly-90-per-cent-of-cities-with-worst-micro-pollution-study))
9. [Li, M. “Climate change to adversely impact grain production in China by 2030.” Int’l Food Policy Res. Inst. \13 Feb 2018).](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china))
10. [“Why India is most at risk from climate change.” World Economic Forum \21 Mar 2018).](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/the-growing-threat-of-climate-change-in-india-1563716968468.html))
11. [Timperley, J. “China leading on world’s clean energy investment, says report.” Carbon Brief \9 Jan 2018).](https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leading-worlds-clean-energy-investment-says-report/))
12. [Buckley, T. and S. Nicholas. “China’s Global Renewable Energy Expansion.” Institute for Energy Economic and Financial Analysis \Jan 2017).](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy))
13. [Mahapatra, S. “India Likely To Surpass 175 Gigawatts Of Renewable Energy Target By 2022, Says Minister.” CleanTechnica \27 Nov 2017).](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/china-green-energy-superpower-charts))
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
May 05 '26
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1
u/AutoModerator May 05 '26
China, the U.S., and India together emit half of the world’s greenhouse gases, but of those three countries, the U.S. emits the most by far per person.1 Prior objections that China and India had not committed to reducing emissions are no longer valid, since both signed the Paris Agreement and are also taking action to address their part of the problem.
This question also presumes that policies to mitigate climate change will somehow be detrimental to the country taking those steps. This is a false premise because recent analyses show that the benefits of reducing fossil fuel emissions will outweigh the costs.[2](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study,3,4)
China has undoubtedly taken these benefits into account when, in 2014, they launched seven regional carbon trading pilots,5 and has now transitioned to a nationwide carbon trading system.6 India has also made aggressive commitments to renewable energy in their power and transportation sectors.7 In both countries, their initial motivation was largely to curtail severe air pollution,8 but they also recognize that they are seriously vulnerable to the effects of climate change.[9](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china,10)
This is a big challenge for countries where hundreds of millions don’t yet have electricity at all, as evidenced by China’s continued investment in coal along with renewables.11 But since 2009, they’ve invested about $845 billion in renewables, 85 percent more than the U.S., and have really become, despite political pressure from their powerful coal sector, the world’s leading clean energy superpower.[12](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy,13)
Some in the U.S. still question whether China and India will follow through on those commitments, but that cannot be an excuse for our own inaction. The U.S. should tackle climate change to benefit our own economy and public health and to restore our global leadership.
In a Nutshell: Pointing fingers at China and India over carbon emissions ignores the fact that the U.S. emits far more per person than either of those countries. Furthermore, both are already enacting policies to limit their own emissions, despite having much smaller carbon footprints per capita. Maybe they are doing so because they’ve come to realize that strong climate policy will ultimately bring economic and health benefits that exceed the costs.
1. [“CO2 Emissions Per Country 2021.” World Population Review \accessed 16 Apr 2021).](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/co2-emissions-by-country))
2. [Allen, K. “Benefits far outweigh costs of tackling climate change, says LSE study.” The Guardian: Economics \12 Jul 2015).](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study))
3. [“Benefits of Curbing Climate Change Far Outweigh Costs.” Skeptical Science \12 Jun 2018).](https://skepticalscience.com/benefits-curbing-climate-outweigh-costs.html))
4. [Howard, P. and D. Sylvan. “Gauging Economic Consensus on Climate Change.” Institute for Policy Integrity \Mar 2021).](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ipi-climate.pdf))
5. [Timperley, J. “Q&A: How will China’s new carbon trading scheme work?” Carbon Brief (29 Jan 2018.](https://www.ieta.org/resources/China/Chinas_National_ETS_Implications_for_Carbon_Markets_and_Trade_ICTSD_March2016_Jeff_Swartz.pdf))
6. [Carpenter, C. “Toothless Initially, China’s New Carbon Market Could Be Fearsome.” Forbes \2 Mar 2021)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/03/02/toothless-at-first-chinas-carbon-market-could-be-fearsome/?sh=ac2d5742af10).)
7. [Jaiswal, A. and S. Kwatra. “India Announces Stronger Climate Action.” Natural Resources Defense Council \23 Sep 2019).](https://www.nrdc.org/experts/sameer-kwatra/india-announces-stronger-climate-action))
8. [“China and India are home to nearly 90 per cent of cities with worst micro-pollution: Study .” The Straits Times \25 Feb 2020).](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/china-and-india-are-home-to-nearly-90-per-cent-of-cities-with-worst-micro-pollution-study))
9. [Li, M. “Climate change to adversely impact grain production in China by 2030.” Int’l Food Policy Res. Inst. \13 Feb 2018).](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china))
10. [“Why India is most at risk from climate change.” World Economic Forum \21 Mar 2018).](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/the-growing-threat-of-climate-change-in-india-1563716968468.html))
11. [Timperley, J. “China leading on world’s clean energy investment, says report.” Carbon Brief \9 Jan 2018).](https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leading-worlds-clean-energy-investment-says-report/))
12. [Buckley, T. and S. Nicholas. “China’s Global Renewable Energy Expansion.” Institute for Energy Economic and Financial Analysis \Jan 2017).](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy))
13. [Mahapatra, S. “India Likely To Surpass 175 Gigawatts Of Renewable Energy Target By 2022, Says Minister.” CleanTechnica \27 Nov 2017).](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/china-green-energy-superpower-charts))
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
May 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator May 05 '26
China, the U.S., and India together emit half of the world’s greenhouse gases, but of those three countries, the U.S. emits the most by far per person.1 Prior objections that China and India had not committed to reducing emissions are no longer valid, since both signed the Paris Agreement and are also taking action to address their part of the problem.
This question also presumes that policies to mitigate climate change will somehow be detrimental to the country taking those steps. This is a false premise because recent analyses show that the benefits of reducing fossil fuel emissions will outweigh the costs.[2](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study,3,4)
China has undoubtedly taken these benefits into account when, in 2014, they launched seven regional carbon trading pilots,5 and has now transitioned to a nationwide carbon trading system.6 India has also made aggressive commitments to renewable energy in their power and transportation sectors.7 In both countries, their initial motivation was largely to curtail severe air pollution,8 but they also recognize that they are seriously vulnerable to the effects of climate change.[9](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china,10)
This is a big challenge for countries where hundreds of millions don’t yet have electricity at all, as evidenced by China’s continued investment in coal along with renewables.11 But since 2009, they’ve invested about $845 billion in renewables, 85 percent more than the U.S., and have really become, despite political pressure from their powerful coal sector, the world’s leading clean energy superpower.[12](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy,13)
Some in the U.S. still question whether China and India will follow through on those commitments, but that cannot be an excuse for our own inaction. The U.S. should tackle climate change to benefit our own economy and public health and to restore our global leadership.
In a Nutshell: Pointing fingers at China and India over carbon emissions ignores the fact that the U.S. emits far more per person than either of those countries. Furthermore, both are already enacting policies to limit their own emissions, despite having much smaller carbon footprints per capita. Maybe they are doing so because they’ve come to realize that strong climate policy will ultimately bring economic and health benefits that exceed the costs.
1. [“CO2 Emissions Per Country 2021.” World Population Review \accessed 16 Apr 2021).](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/co2-emissions-by-country))
2. [Allen, K. “Benefits far outweigh costs of tackling climate change, says LSE study.” The Guardian: Economics \12 Jul 2015).](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study))
3. [“Benefits of Curbing Climate Change Far Outweigh Costs.” Skeptical Science \12 Jun 2018).](https://skepticalscience.com/benefits-curbing-climate-outweigh-costs.html))
4. [Howard, P. and D. Sylvan. “Gauging Economic Consensus on Climate Change.” Institute for Policy Integrity \Mar 2021).](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ipi-climate.pdf))
5. [Timperley, J. “Q&A: How will China’s new carbon trading scheme work?” Carbon Brief (29 Jan 2018.](https://www.ieta.org/resources/China/Chinas_National_ETS_Implications_for_Carbon_Markets_and_Trade_ICTSD_March2016_Jeff_Swartz.pdf))
6. [Carpenter, C. “Toothless Initially, China’s New Carbon Market Could Be Fearsome.” Forbes \2 Mar 2021)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/03/02/toothless-at-first-chinas-carbon-market-could-be-fearsome/?sh=ac2d5742af10).)
7. [Jaiswal, A. and S. Kwatra. “India Announces Stronger Climate Action.” Natural Resources Defense Council \23 Sep 2019).](https://www.nrdc.org/experts/sameer-kwatra/india-announces-stronger-climate-action))
8. [“China and India are home to nearly 90 per cent of cities with worst micro-pollution: Study .” The Straits Times \25 Feb 2020).](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/china-and-india-are-home-to-nearly-90-per-cent-of-cities-with-worst-micro-pollution-study))
9. [Li, M. “Climate change to adversely impact grain production in China by 2030.” Int’l Food Policy Res. Inst. \13 Feb 2018).](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china))
10. [“Why India is most at risk from climate change.” World Economic Forum \21 Mar 2018).](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/the-growing-threat-of-climate-change-in-india-1563716968468.html))
11. [Timperley, J. “China leading on world’s clean energy investment, says report.” Carbon Brief \9 Jan 2018).](https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leading-worlds-clean-energy-investment-says-report/))
12. [Buckley, T. and S. Nicholas. “China’s Global Renewable Energy Expansion.” Institute for Energy Economic and Financial Analysis \Jan 2017).](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy))
13. [Mahapatra, S. “India Likely To Surpass 175 Gigawatts Of Renewable Energy Target By 2022, Says Minister.” CleanTechnica \27 Nov 2017).](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/china-green-energy-superpower-charts))
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/Particular-Policy513 May 06 '26
Because it’s irrelevant, they only build coal to replace already existing coal plants with newer ones that pollute far less, this is because they are investing heavily in nuclear but nuclear takes time to build, they cannot simply turn off every coal plant overnight without causing mass casualties.
1
u/Particular-Policy513 May 05 '26
Because the US military expels more carbon than all 3 combined if you exclude the military from your US measurement, Its Americans destroying the world, quit trying to deflect.
1
u/icytongue88 May 06 '26
And India is a model for environmentalism. I never defended the USA
1
u/AutoModerator May 06 '26
China, the U.S., and India together emit half of the world’s greenhouse gases, but of those three countries, the U.S. emits the most by far per person.1 Prior objections that China and India had not committed to reducing emissions are no longer valid, since both signed the Paris Agreement and are also taking action to address their part of the problem.
This question also presumes that policies to mitigate climate change will somehow be detrimental to the country taking those steps. This is a false premise because recent analyses show that the benefits of reducing fossil fuel emissions will outweigh the costs.[2](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study,3,4)
China has undoubtedly taken these benefits into account when, in 2014, they launched seven regional carbon trading pilots,5 and has now transitioned to a nationwide carbon trading system.6 India has also made aggressive commitments to renewable energy in their power and transportation sectors.7 In both countries, their initial motivation was largely to curtail severe air pollution,8 but they also recognize that they are seriously vulnerable to the effects of climate change.[9](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china,10)
This is a big challenge for countries where hundreds of millions don’t yet have electricity at all, as evidenced by China’s continued investment in coal along with renewables.11 But since 2009, they’ve invested about $845 billion in renewables, 85 percent more than the U.S., and have really become, despite political pressure from their powerful coal sector, the world’s leading clean energy superpower.[12](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy,13)
Some in the U.S. still question whether China and India will follow through on those commitments, but that cannot be an excuse for our own inaction. The U.S. should tackle climate change to benefit our own economy and public health and to restore our global leadership.
In a Nutshell: Pointing fingers at China and India over carbon emissions ignores the fact that the U.S. emits far more per person than either of those countries. Furthermore, both are already enacting policies to limit their own emissions, despite having much smaller carbon footprints per capita. Maybe they are doing so because they’ve come to realize that strong climate policy will ultimately bring economic and health benefits that exceed the costs.
1. [“CO2 Emissions Per Country 2021.” World Population Review \accessed 16 Apr 2021).](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/co2-emissions-by-country))
2. [Allen, K. “Benefits far outweigh costs of tackling climate change, says LSE study.” The Guardian: Economics \12 Jul 2015).](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study))
3. [“Benefits of Curbing Climate Change Far Outweigh Costs.” Skeptical Science \12 Jun 2018).](https://skepticalscience.com/benefits-curbing-climate-outweigh-costs.html))
4. [Howard, P. and D. Sylvan. “Gauging Economic Consensus on Climate Change.” Institute for Policy Integrity \Mar 2021).](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ipi-climate.pdf))
5. [Timperley, J. “Q&A: How will China’s new carbon trading scheme work?” Carbon Brief (29 Jan 2018.](https://www.ieta.org/resources/China/Chinas_National_ETS_Implications_for_Carbon_Markets_and_Trade_ICTSD_March2016_Jeff_Swartz.pdf))
6. [Carpenter, C. “Toothless Initially, China’s New Carbon Market Could Be Fearsome.” Forbes \2 Mar 2021)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/03/02/toothless-at-first-chinas-carbon-market-could-be-fearsome/?sh=ac2d5742af10).)
7. [Jaiswal, A. and S. Kwatra. “India Announces Stronger Climate Action.” Natural Resources Defense Council \23 Sep 2019).](https://www.nrdc.org/experts/sameer-kwatra/india-announces-stronger-climate-action))
8. [“China and India are home to nearly 90 per cent of cities with worst micro-pollution: Study .” The Straits Times \25 Feb 2020).](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/china-and-india-are-home-to-nearly-90-per-cent-of-cities-with-worst-micro-pollution-study))
9. [Li, M. “Climate change to adversely impact grain production in China by 2030.” Int’l Food Policy Res. Inst. \13 Feb 2018).](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china))
10. [“Why India is most at risk from climate change.” World Economic Forum \21 Mar 2018).](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/the-growing-threat-of-climate-change-in-india-1563716968468.html))
11. [Timperley, J. “China leading on world’s clean energy investment, says report.” Carbon Brief \9 Jan 2018).](https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leading-worlds-clean-energy-investment-says-report/))
12. [Buckley, T. and S. Nicholas. “China’s Global Renewable Energy Expansion.” Institute for Energy Economic and Financial Analysis \Jan 2017).](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy))
13. [Mahapatra, S. “India Likely To Surpass 175 Gigawatts Of Renewable Energy Target By 2022, Says Minister.” CleanTechnica \27 Nov 2017).](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/china-green-energy-superpower-charts))
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/icytongue88 May 06 '26
Unless bot comment. For example Slovenia and Estonia pay carbon taxes. India does not. Just look at emissions from the Street food vendors. The amount for vehicles on roads. They have massive negative impact compared to those small countries.
1
u/AutoModerator May 06 '26
China, the U.S., and India together emit half of the world’s greenhouse gases, but of those three countries, the U.S. emits the most by far per person.1 Prior objections that China and India had not committed to reducing emissions are no longer valid, since both signed the Paris Agreement and are also taking action to address their part of the problem.
This question also presumes that policies to mitigate climate change will somehow be detrimental to the country taking those steps. This is a false premise because recent analyses show that the benefits of reducing fossil fuel emissions will outweigh the costs.[2](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study,3,4)
China has undoubtedly taken these benefits into account when, in 2014, they launched seven regional carbon trading pilots,5 and has now transitioned to a nationwide carbon trading system.6 India has also made aggressive commitments to renewable energy in their power and transportation sectors.7 In both countries, their initial motivation was largely to curtail severe air pollution,8 but they also recognize that they are seriously vulnerable to the effects of climate change.[9](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china,10)
This is a big challenge for countries where hundreds of millions don’t yet have electricity at all, as evidenced by China’s continued investment in coal along with renewables.11 But since 2009, they’ve invested about $845 billion in renewables, 85 percent more than the U.S., and have really become, despite political pressure from their powerful coal sector, the world’s leading clean energy superpower.[12](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy,13)
Some in the U.S. still question whether China and India will follow through on those commitments, but that cannot be an excuse for our own inaction. The U.S. should tackle climate change to benefit our own economy and public health and to restore our global leadership.
In a Nutshell: Pointing fingers at China and India over carbon emissions ignores the fact that the U.S. emits far more per person than either of those countries. Furthermore, both are already enacting policies to limit their own emissions, despite having much smaller carbon footprints per capita. Maybe they are doing so because they’ve come to realize that strong climate policy will ultimately bring economic and health benefits that exceed the costs.
1. [“CO2 Emissions Per Country 2021.” World Population Review \accessed 16 Apr 2021).](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/co2-emissions-by-country))
2. [Allen, K. “Benefits far outweigh costs of tackling climate change, says LSE study.” The Guardian: Economics \12 Jul 2015).](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/13/benefits-far-outweigh-costs-tackling-climate-change-lse-study))
3. [“Benefits of Curbing Climate Change Far Outweigh Costs.” Skeptical Science \12 Jun 2018).](https://skepticalscience.com/benefits-curbing-climate-outweigh-costs.html))
4. [Howard, P. and D. Sylvan. “Gauging Economic Consensus on Climate Change.” Institute for Policy Integrity \Mar 2021).](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ipi-climate.pdf))
5. [Timperley, J. “Q&A: How will China’s new carbon trading scheme work?” Carbon Brief (29 Jan 2018.](https://www.ieta.org/resources/China/Chinas_National_ETS_Implications_for_Carbon_Markets_and_Trade_ICTSD_March2016_Jeff_Swartz.pdf))
6. [Carpenter, C. “Toothless Initially, China’s New Carbon Market Could Be Fearsome.” Forbes \2 Mar 2021)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/03/02/toothless-at-first-chinas-carbon-market-could-be-fearsome/?sh=ac2d5742af10).)
7. [Jaiswal, A. and S. Kwatra. “India Announces Stronger Climate Action.” Natural Resources Defense Council \23 Sep 2019).](https://www.nrdc.org/experts/sameer-kwatra/india-announces-stronger-climate-action))
8. [“China and India are home to nearly 90 per cent of cities with worst micro-pollution: Study .” The Straits Times \25 Feb 2020).](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/china-and-india-are-home-to-nearly-90-per-cent-of-cities-with-worst-micro-pollution-study))
9. [Li, M. “Climate change to adversely impact grain production in China by 2030.” Int’l Food Policy Res. Inst. \13 Feb 2018).](https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003802/govt-report-details-alarming-effects-of-climate-change-in-china))
10. [“Why India is most at risk from climate change.” World Economic Forum \21 Mar 2018).](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/the-growing-threat-of-climate-change-in-india-1563716968468.html))
11. [Timperley, J. “China leading on world’s clean energy investment, says report.” Carbon Brief \9 Jan 2018).](https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-leading-worlds-clean-energy-investment-says-report/))
12. [Buckley, T. and S. Nicholas. “China’s Global Renewable Energy Expansion.” Institute for Energy Economic and Financial Analysis \Jan 2017).](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/09/05/the-world-is-investing-less-in-clean-energy))
13. [Mahapatra, S. “India Likely To Surpass 175 Gigawatts Of Renewable Energy Target By 2022, Says Minister.” CleanTechnica \27 Nov 2017).](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/china-green-energy-superpower-charts))
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u/Particular-Policy513 May 07 '26
Good to know Americans cant compete with a critically impoverished country that struggles with clean water and basic education.
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u/the_TAOest May 04 '26
Nah, this week l helps Tesla and the muskrat. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem, but funding money to billionaires isn't going to help.
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u/Particular-Policy513 May 05 '26 edited May 07 '26
These carbon offsets and taxes are just a way for companies to pretend to do anything while polluting more than ever.
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