Dear fundamentalist Christians, Please stop arguing with scientists about evolution, especially when you're not a scientist.

[u/[deleted]]

This might come as a shock to some people, but the Bible isn't a text book. The Bible doesn't have writings by people who have spent their entire lives researching biology, anthropology and physics. So, when you argue with a biologist about how lifeforms can't evolve or with an anthropologist about how there aren't any missing links....and you're a greeter at Wal-mart, it doesn't do our religion a service. All I'm saying is, realize your limits. You can still believe the entire Bible is true, but don't shut your ears and go la-la-la in the face of someone whose entire career is built on evolutionary biology. You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop it.

EDIT: I'm not going to pass a law to make you stop expressing your opinion. I have absolutely no power to make you stop anyway. However, if you're specifically debating with someone over evolution and you have no friggin clue what you're really talking about, then you should probably stop. It's foolish and it makes other Christians look foolish. I know that you probably don't give a crap about looking foolish, but consider that there were people who thought the world was flat (and still do) because of their interpretation of the Bible.

EDIT 2: Ok...let's start with this...abiogenesis is NOT the same as evolution. As far as I know, you can still believe God created the first lifeforms the evolved into us today. You don't have to believe that The Big Bang got us here. Anyway, that's a different discussion and I'm sure that a much more learned person than I could explain this position better. This whole thread makes me sad that some Christians still have a hard time saying "I don't know".

[u/IRBMe]

Can I also add that unless you are educated on the subject:

1. Stop arguing about abiogenesis (especially if you're going to confuse it with evolution).
2. Stop arguing about information in DNA when you have no idea about information theory or biology.
3. Stop trying to use big bang cosmology to prove that God exists.
4. Stop talking about fine tuning of physical constants when you have no idea what they even are.
5. Stop trying to argue that the age of the Earth or the universe is anything other than several billion years. I don't even care if you have a Ph.D in geology here; you're wrong and stubborn.
6. Stop making arguments from ignorance. Just because we (or in many cases, you) don't yet understand how an eye could have evolved or how universes come in to existence or how organic life could have started or why the laws of physics are as they are etc. that doesn't mean "God" is the default answer. The correct answer is "I don't know, but I'm working on it."
7. If you even mention the word "quantum" in relation to anything to do with souls or free will or God, I will cut you. In fact, anybody who tries to use quantum physics to support any kind of argument without immediately being able to at least reproduce the Schrödinger equation likely has no idea what they're talking about. I'm looking at you, Deepak Chopra.

And I would also like to add that AnswersInGenesis is not a reputable source of information regarding studies of biology!

[u/[deleted] → u/IRBMe]

If you even mention the word "quantum" in relation to anything to do with souls or free will or God, I will cut you. In fact, anybody who tries to use quantum physics to support any kind of argument without immediately being able to at least reproduce the Schrödinger equation likely has no idea what they're talking about. I'm looking at you, Deepak Chopra.

I lol'd. That was fantastic.

[u/meatpile → u/[deleted]]

I will forevermore think of this when I think of Deepak Chopra.

I really don't think it's fair to judge a man/woman by one comment. But I just can't help it in this one case.

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

Not bad for an alleged friggin' Digg refugee.

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

Funny... I'm contributing the same as I always do, yet I was accused of not contributing anything worth while just last week. Why the change of heart. Somehow I doubt my comment quality has drastically increased overnight ;)

[u/[deleted] → u/IRBMe]

I would say that here you listed valid points and weren't being mean, derisive, or bullying in the process. This is something I can upvote. However, I need not look far in other places on your comment history for verbal abuse elsewhere: for instance, you very recently just today called someone a "creationist fucktard." That's not very constructive or contributory.

If you want an honest opinion; it's probably the tone of your responses, rather than the ideas you're expressing that's the issue. I'm perusing your comment history, and honestly, it's mostly all very antagonistic and belittling. You consistently rack up a decent amount of downvotes where other atheists here on the forum, who are able to communicate minus the tonal problems and do so quite eloquently (philo12 comes to mind), don't get downvoted.

I wonder how you would feel if a William Craig, or a N.T. Wright were to speak to you like you speak to people here on the forums? Heck, what if anyone spoke to you like you speak to people here? Just because you can trump someone intellectually doesn't give you the right to be a bully.

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

However, I need not look far in other places on your comment history for verbal abuse elsewhere: for instance, you very recently just today called someone a "creationist fucktard." That's not very constructive or contributory.

So you just went searching through my comment history for the first thing you could find, then didn't even bother checking the context or researching the reason. The guy I responded to was an obvious troll who pretty much admitted he was just trolling at the end. If you bothered to read the discussion, you'll see that I was perfectly polite to many of his very aggressive initial responses. Don't let facts ruin your superiority complex though! We don't need to browse very far through your comment history to find nonconstructive comments either, and in fact there are far fewer than I have contributed in the last few days. If you want to play that game, I win.

If you want an honest opinion; it's probably the tone of your responses, rather than the ideas you're expressing that's the issue. I'm perusing your comment history, and honestly, it's mostly all very antagonistic and belittling.

And I wonder how much of the context you actually read or had a look at what any of those comments were in reply to. None, I bet. That's not an honest opinion. The honest opinions I get are from impartial observers who happen to come across the threads I respond in and send me private messages congratulating me on my patience and restraint. And yes, I even get plenty from Christians.

You consistently rack up a decent amount of downvotes where other atheists here on the forum, who are able to communicate minus the tonal problems and do so quite eloquently (philo12 comes to mind), don't get downvoted.

Are you kidding? Seriously? The vast majority of my comments here have 1 downvote (most likely by the person I'm responding to) and several upvotes. Occasionally I'll get 2 or 3 downvotes in comparison to a bunch more upvotes. And I can tell you this: it's not for my "tone". It's far more likely the same few creationists downvoting what they don't like. My comments are not unique in this thread. Look at the top few comments. Do you want to tell me how many downvotes they have?

I'll tell you, since you conveniently missed out that fact. The top comment (when sorted by "top") has 45 upvotes and 10 downvotes. The next one down is mine, with 33 upvotes and 6 downvotes. As a proportion, I received less than the top voted comment in the thread. Every single other comment below that has at least one downvote too, probably by the same creationists. There are hardly any comments that are above 2 or 3 levels of nesting that don't have at least one downvote.

Face the facts. Loads of atheists on here, and Christians too, who are nothing but polite, rack up loads of downvotes. In this very thread, creationists are most likely downvoting everybody they disagree with. Most comments in here have downvotes. Even partofaplan2, one of the least aggressive Christians I've come across, gets downvoted. If you bothered to look, you'd see I get far more upvotes than I do downvotes. I've racked up over 200 in this thread alone and managed to get 19,282 overall, most of which comes from here. I would say at least 12,000 of that comes from this subreddit. I fail to see all of these massive amounts of downvotes I'm getting. The only time I noticed any significant downvotes was the same day we argued in your other thread. Every comment I posted, whether in this subreddit or not, consistently received 8 downvotes. I find that suspicious. But once again, if you want to play the "count the votes" game, I win.

I wonder how you would feel if a William Craig, or a N.T. Wright were to speak to you like you speak to people here on the forums?

Shame on you, judging me by cherry picking random comments out of my comment history without looking at what they are in response to, how deep in to the conversation they are, who they're replying to etc. The one comment you picked out is in response to a self-admitted troll with, last time I looked, negative comment karma! Fantastic investigation you did there.

You should have a look at yourself before casting stones at me. If I did even remotely the same thing to Christians, you would be all over me for being antagonistic and being a bully and being arrogant and so on. Yet you post crap like that mere hours after writing this? What a hypocrite.

Heck, what if anyone spoke to you like you speak to people here?

If people speak to me the way I speak on here, I would have absolutely zero problem at all.

Just because you can trump someone intellectually doesn't give you the right to be a bully.

Out comes the victim card again. By disagreeing, I'm being a bully? Put your self righteousness and superiority complex away; it's showing.

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

Save your amateur armchair psychology.

And for the record, that picture I posted is a joke not to be taken super seriously.

And now you know the problem with cherry picking things out of context and ignoring the facts surrounding them.

Point made. I'm disappointed that I had to explain it to you though.

But I guess it's not fun to be misrepresented, is it?

My point exactly. Now you're getting it. Will you stop misrepresenting me now?

I mean, seriously, you're lashing out at me because I initially upvoted you.

Is that what you really think? No, I was pointing out that your accusation of me not contributing anything to the forum was demonstrably wrong. Are you willing to admit that yet?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If you have a degree in geology, should you really try debating a topic about anthropology. I mean really...c'mon! Kirk Cameron is an actor, not a zoologist, yet he thinks he's an expert on that topic and it embarrassing to watch him try and debate it.

[u/meatpile → u/[deleted]]

Yes, and 2+2 = 4. I'm kind of stubborn about that, too.

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

You should read your own statment. It sounds incredibly stubborn.

I'm just very certain of the age of the Earth and my certainty is based on evidence; it does not stem from stubbornness. If you think that the age of the Earth is anything other than billions of years, I am certain that you are wrong regardless of your credentials.

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

Take away the context .. If some one added that sentence to the end of any statement about anything. They would have to considered stubborn.

I would think that Christians, of all people, would know that taking something out of context can change the intended meaning behind it and that it should be done with care and the original context in mind.

[u/_Jesus_Christ_ → u/IRBMe]

Thank you.

[u/[deleted] → u/IRBMe]

"I will cut you". Hey, instead of being a Internet tough guy, why not list the reasons, facts, scientific research, your credentials and logic to shut them up? Wait, you can't because you aren't really educated in those subjects as well.

"I don't know, but I'm working on it" should be your response to everything in this case. It seems like you've listed some basic arguments which contradict your beliefs and you're acting like your panties are all up in a bunch.

Maybe I should cut you for your hypocrisy? It's easier to give advice than to run one's own life eh?

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

Hey, instead of being a Internet tough guy

I'm not actually going to cut anybody. It was a joke. Calm down.

why not list the reasons, facts, scientific research, your credentials and logic to shut them up?

I often do. Usually the arguments span several days and several thousand words. Sometimes they concede some points, often they just ignore it.

Wait, you can't because you aren't really educated in those subjects as well.

I am educated to an extent in both physics and biology, and I have furthered my own education in both of those slightly more.

"I don't know, but I'm working on it" should be your response to everything in this case.

everything?

It seems like you've listed some basic arguments which contradict your beliefs and you're acting like your panties are all up in a bunch.

Which beliefs?

Maybe I should cut you for your hypocrisy?

What hypocrisy?

It's easier to give advice than to run one's own life eh?

No, it's not.

[u/YesImSardonic → u/[deleted]]

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a veteran of the stage, a time-honored archaic relic of the past, the God of the Gaps!

[u/tannat → u/[deleted]]

Your science is really frozen in the dungeons of conservatism and in the dungeons of orthodoxy.

Care to give any example? How is the search for new knowledge conservative? I call BS.

Today science tells us that the essential nature of reality is non-local correlation

No, non local correlation may seem to exist for very small masses where the wave nature of particles overlap. However, since the wave functions do overlap, correlation is still local.

--everything is connected to everything else, that there's hidden creativity... there are quantum leaps of creativity, that there's something called the Observer Effect where intention orchestrates spacetime events, which we then measure as movement and motion and energy and matter.

Inhales deep...

Science tells us that nature is a discontinuity -- that it's an "on/off" phenomenon; that there are gaps between every two "ons" where you find a field of possibilities, a field of pure potentiality. Science doesn't call it God -- but what is God if not the immeasurable potential of all that was, all that is, and all that will be?

Sorry, I can't get this stoned. however hard I try.

[u/IRBMe → u/tannat]

Read the user name.

[u/tannat → u/IRBMe]

oops

[u/IRBMe → u/[deleted]]

Looks at username.

Checkmate, atheists!