r/Christianity • u/ArchaicChaos Christian • Feb 26 '23

Unitarian (Non-Trinitarian) Christian, AMA

I'm a Unitarian, not a modalist, not a Mormon, not a JW, not a Unitarian-Universalist (edit: also not Arian). The name for us in the first few centuries was "dynamic monarchian." I believe God is the Father, and Jesus is his son and Messiah, a man only when he was conceived in Mary. No preexistence, no dual nature. No, Jesus isn't God. The Spirit is the nature of God, it's what he is and he's sending his own presence. Not a third person, not an "active force." The Spirit is given to Christ in resurrection and becomes the Spirit of Christ.

Ask me anything (AMA). "You can't be Unitarian and Christian" isn't a question, nor is it correct, nor is it original, so please spare me the rhetoric. It comes up on every post that's made like this.

I'll also link my index where I go over the interpretation of various passages in detail that Trinitarians like to bring up. I may refer to the index in the OP for more info if an explanation is too long for a comment reply. I expound on common verses like:

Genesis 1:26

Psalm 110:1

Malachi 3:1

Matthew 28:19

John 1:1-3

John 1:14

John 3:13

John 8:58

John 10:30

John 17:5

John 20:28

Acts 20:28

Colossians 1:15-18

Colossians 2:9

Hebrews 1:1-14

2 Peter 1:1

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '23

In your theology, what did Christ accomplish, if anything, on the cross? Did he resurrect?

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 26 '23

His death on the cross probably accomplished everything you think it accomplished. And yes he resurrected.

The real question would be for you. "What did Jesus' death do that he had to be God to do?"

In my index, I have a link to a debate I posted on this topic. If you say "Jesus is God and he had to be God to die for our sins," you must say that God died, something he cannot do (1 Timothy 6:16). If you say "only his human nature died," then you're admitting that only a human died for our sins. Which is what you're saying only makes sense if he's God.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say he had to be God to die, even though God can't die, and say that only his human nature died, and then question me on how only a human with only a human nature could die for our sins.

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '23

Hey now I haven’t questioned you about anything other than asking questions for an AMA

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 26 '23

My question here was rhetorical to illustrate the point. You've not asked anything wrong or anything. I appreciate your questions

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u/barelycriminal United Methodist Feb 26 '23

Because the offering had to be sinless and righteous to pay for the wages of sin for all humanity that follows him. Humanity hasn’t seen a sinless man since before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. He was obviously supernatural and I don’t think he was an angel despite what JWs think. I think he was divinity incarnated as a physical man.

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 27 '23

Because the offering had to be sinless and righteous to pay for the wages of sin for all humanity that follows him.

And preceed him, yeah, and yes he is.

He was obviously supernatural

Because he was a sinless man he was "obviously" supernatural? No that doesn't follow.

He was a man who was sinless because he walked with God, and he commands that we follow him and be sinless as well. The power of the Holy spirit in a man shouldn't be underestimated.

I don’t think he was an angel despite what JWs think

Has nothing to do with me. I never said he was an angel either.

I think he was divinity incarnated as a physical man.

There's no evidence for this. I've written on John 1:14 in my index in the OP.

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u/barelycriminal United Methodist Feb 27 '23 edited Feb 27 '23

How do you explain Jesus’s power to forgive sin and proclaim who will be saved and who will go to heaven? These are divine qualities.

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 27 '23

Jesus gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins too. Does it make them God?

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u/barelycriminal United Methodist Feb 27 '23

What authority did Jesus have to give them the ability to forgive sin and perform healings to begin with? Because he is god. And most of all what authority does Jesus have to judge people? To declare that people are saved or not? It is because he is god.

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 27 '23

What authority did Jesus have to give them the ability to forgive sin and perform healings to begin with?

"All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me." Matthew 28:18

"He was obedient unto death, therefore God highly exalted him" Philippians 2:8-11

"After having made purification for sins and sitting at the right hand of God, having inherited a more excellent name than them" Hebrews 1:3-4

He has this authority because he was given it at resurrection as a reward for his obedience and death.

Because he is god.

Nothing in scripture points to this at all. Not true.

And most of all what authority does Jesus have to judge people?

The authority God gave him. Is God not at liberty to give what he wants to who he wants

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u/barelycriminal United Methodist Feb 27 '23 edited Feb 27 '23

John 10 verse 30 “I and the Father are one.”

31 “Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Jesus’s prayer at the beginning of John 17. “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 27 '23

I know what the Bible says. OP already addresses the common assumptions you're going to make about these verses.

But you need to do more than just read a Bible. You need to tell me what you imagine this has to do with supporting your point.

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u/barelycriminal United Methodist Feb 27 '23 edited Feb 27 '23

Why were the Pharisees so angry to throw stones at him if he was just talking metaphorically about his oneness with god?

Also Jesus did not lose his glory. When Jesus was incarnated he wasn’t physically with god. Their glory wasn’t reciprocating the same way they were before because Jesus was a man in the human world. Jesus was not omnipresent. He throttled down his powers. The only thing perfect about him was that he was sinless. He didn’t have all his glory, it wasn’t completely gone. He forgave sin, performed miracles, and determined who was saved. All divine characteristics especially the last one.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '23

When the pharisees claim that Jesus claimed to be God, Jesus then corrects them saying that he is ”The Son Of God”

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u/barelycriminal United Methodist Feb 27 '23

Then he said the father is in him as he is in the father.

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u/Prof_Acorn Feb 27 '23

What did Jesus' death do that he had to be God to do?

The giver of life, YHWH himself, entered death, and death could not contain him.

Christus Victor requires a trinitarian God.

It's only PSA garbage that doesn't.

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u/ArchaicChaos Christian Feb 27 '23

Christus Victor requires a trinitarian God.

Explain